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TOPIC: The AFA and the truth.....

RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 17:42 #76

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Eric, that is not at all what I said.

Yeah I know! :D
In point of fact, one of those consultants stated, at the IT committee meeting at Convention this year, to all those who were in attendance at that meeting, that Ron had been one of the easiest and most knowledgeable people it had been his pleasure to work with.
I'm sure that's true.
I agree. And that is a two way street, right?

Should be.
Why? Do you or do you not, think that the chairman and members of, for instance, the Certification Committee should be well versed in the Certification process?

Its not a bad thing. I don't think its absolutely necessary. The chairman of the certification commitee does not need to know how to make a barshoe. He should have good managerial skills though.
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 17:52 #77

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Gary_Miller wrote:
Of course it couldn't be the other way around the others involved not playing well/fair with Ron?

I'm sure it is that way. You know what some of them farriers think about 2nd career farriers.;)

This would be why I suggsted a buffer between Ron and the EC. I wouldn't consider Elsbree's right hand man a buffer!

Also like I mentioned before, results are what counts. Ron quit. That's probably not going to be the best way to gain friends in the afa. The IT job is incomplete, that doesn't make Elsbree look very good at all to the membership.
And last I looked Ron was one of the AFA guys.

Doesn't sound like he's a very accepted afa guy at this point!
Not if it means doing the wrong thing.

You can still play ball and get the job done.
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 20:05 #78

  • Rick Burten
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Eric Russell wrote:
The chairman of the certification commitee does not need to know how to make a barshoe. He should have good managerial skills though.
That being the case, why do you suppose that the Chairman and all members of the committee are CJF's and Examiners :confused:

And, any one who gets on the committee must be the same.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 20:30 #79

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Rick Burten wrote:
That being the case, why do you suppose that the Chairman and all members of the committee are CJF's and Examiners :confused:

Because they're there.
And, any one who gets on the committee must be the same.

There's a big difference between IT chairman and certification chairman. If I rember correctly I said at this moment in time the IT chair didn't need IT experience. If there are enough individuals with IT experience within the AFA I'd hope one of them would be the chair.
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 20:37 #80

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Rick Burten wrote:
That being the case, why do you suppose that the Chairman and all members of the committee are CJF's and Examiners :confused:

And, any one who gets on the committee must be the same.

Rick

BTW, I know you were hoping I'd say something along the lines of: because cjf's and examiners are qualified because they've taken the test. This dog just won't hunt today!:)
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 21:30 #81

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Eric Russell wrote:
There's a big difference between IT chairman and certification chairman.
Maybe, maybe not.
If I rember correctly I said at this moment in time the IT chair didn't need IT experience.
Current circumstances would prove you wrong.
If there are enough individuals with IT experience within the AFA I'd hope one of them would be the chair.
The committee did have a chair with extensive IT experience. The committee also had two additional members with extensive and varied IT experience. As a result of certain issues and circumstances, the IT committee, right now, to the best of my knowledge, has zero members with IT experience and I've not heard of anyone with that kind of experience breaking down the doors or ringing the phone off the hook, to sign up for IT committee duty. :eek:

Anybody here on line last Friday when the Members only side of the AFA web site went down? Anyone here want to hazzard a guess as to who volunteered to fix the problem, got authorization/approval to do so from a Board member, and then did so? And then got privately excoriated if not insulted, for his efforts?

How quick do you think he is going to be to offer to help the next time?

Oh, and by the way, I can document my statements.

Rick Burten
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 21:34 #82

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Eric Russell wrote:
BTW, I know you were hoping I'd say something along the lines of: because cjf's and examiners are qualified because they've taken the test. This dog just won't hunt today!:)
Why is that:confused:

Rick
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 21:36 #83

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Here's a funny one-
Ron-black
Andrew-red
The only tangible disadvantage to following this strategy at this point is that the AFA will
have to have someone in place either on the IT committee or as a consultant that is
capable of doing higher level systems administration and management of this server.
WHO WOULD THAT BE, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT TO PAY THEM AND
WHY SHOULD WE BE HELD HOSTAGE TO ONLY ONE INDIVIDUAL IT
PERSON AS OPPOSED TO OUTSOURCING THIS TO A FIRM SPECIALIZING
IN AND DEDICATED SOLEY TO IT WORK? Once our services are set up and
documented we do not anticipate that this will be a major expense, but it needs to be
noted.

And part of the answer-

Right now I have a couple of prospects for our specialized services
consultant. I will not divulge their name at this time because doing so
could compromise their situation and the possibility of our using them.
I would expect that we would be paying them industry standard hourly
rates of between $90 and $120 per hour depending upon the individual
and the work involved. As long as I am in my current role I would be
able to do the basic to moderate administrative tasks. The outside
consultants would only be called in for very specialized tasks based
upon approved project requirements.

Maybe this is part of the problem. Everything is being done so as long as Ron is around he can take care of it. Now exactly what people were worrying about, Ron quit. hmmmmmmm:rolleyes:
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 21:41 #84

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Rick Burten wrote:

Current circumstances would prove you wrong.

Ron's own emails prove me right. He said he felt people were trying to hide things from him. I'm not about to go through all that garbage again to find it. Most likely it was around Nov/Dec.

Oh, and by the way, I can document my statements.

Would you please say what you have to say and quit with the whole I can document my statements.
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 21:41 #85

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The point being?

And I said what I had to say. I merely added that I can document my statements should the need arise.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 21:45 #86

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Rick Burten wrote:
The point being?

Rick


Its a team effort! Not a one man wrecking machine. The AFA is not about Ron and what he can do. The emails suggest Ron was trying to be a one man machine. Sure what Ron did would benefit the AFA, until he's gone.:rolleyes:
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 22:10 #87

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Eric Russell wrote:
Its a team effort! Not a one man wrecking machine. The AFA is not about Ron and what he can do.
Absolutely correct. But a one man wrecking crew is exactly what we've still got. Hurrah for us.
The emails suggest Ron was trying to be a one man machine.
Not quite. He had the full backing and input of his committee. And, as with most every project, there needs to be a project manager.
Sure what Ron did would benefit the AFA, until he's gone.:rolleyes:
It will still benefit the AFA. But the Brain Trust has to be smart enough to effectively and efficiently, manage what we have. The AFA had a team in place that could do just that, along with outside resources that were readily available when/if the need arose. Now, all of those resources, both internal and external, are gone.

Someone really does deserve a WELL DONE!! for bringing the AFA to this sorry state of affairs.

And that someone isn't any former member of the IT committee. JMNTBCHO, of course.:)

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 22:58 #88

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I'm sifting through these emails just as everyone else is doing.:rolleyes:
So far it sounds like the afa just needs to shut down.

Here's my next question: Why is some non afa, volunteer(C. Michael Behr), with a personal relationship with Andrew Elsbree doing messing in IT commitee business?



And what is the involvement of the EC in all this?
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 23:02 #89

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Eric Russell.....Here's my next question: Why is some non afa, volunteer(C. Michael Behr), with a personal relationship with Andrew Elsbree doing messing in IT commitee business?
...

Seeing if the LOVE will be shared :eek:
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 23:18 #90

Eric Russell wrote:
Maybe this is part of the problem. Everything is being done so as long as Ron is around he can take care of it. Now exactly what people were worrying about, Ron quit. hmmmmmmm:rolleyes:
Eric,

First, had I been allowed to finish the task that I started the system would have been reconfigured to be primarily self managing and maintainable by the office staff or other member volunteers. Only an mental defective plans a system to require his ongoing input, and while I have been accused of a great many evils I have not been accused of being an mental defective. Yet.

Second, had I been the only one on the IT team to leave the remaining members of the team would have had sufficient background and professional depth to continue on without me. This was a part of the planning that I did and part of my reasons for recruiting Mr. Bloomer. I told him clearly and unequivocally that one the major heavy lifting was done that I wanted him to take over and that I would strongly recommend him as the next Chairman. The AFA’s Board Policies do in fact state that committees should recommend the next Chair if the Chair resigns before the end of their term.

Third, instead of focusing entirely on my decisions one might wonder at the situation and ask yourself, why did the members that resigned do so before the job was done? Why if we were willing to work so hard to get most of the way to where we wanted to go did we feel that we needed to be free of it so unanimously?

There is a term of art called “Constructive Termination.” This is when a situation is created that is so onerous that an individual is no longer able to complete the tasks that they normally would and has been put in the position where they have no means of redressing the situation to enable them to perform their function. Mr. Elsbree created that state for me and the members of the IT committee. He couldn’t out and out right fire me, even though he tried, so he did the next best thing, he created an environment where nothing that the IT Committee wanted to do could be done and he was operating a shadow IT Committee that managed to very quickly run off consultants and members alike.

Yes I imagine there can and will be some of the usual commentary about my/our quitting, but I really could care less at this point. One should not have to put up with ongoing BS, including deliberate libelous and defamatory attacks, to give freely of there time on a volunteer basis. Had those acting in this circumstance behaved with just a modicum of respect and good will the situation would not have come to the point that is has. That most people would like to ignore the actual facts is a sad commentary on the profession and the AFA.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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