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TOPIC: AFA Certification

RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:00 #31

Mike Ferrara wrote:
The fact that some people want licensing is one reason that I won't add my name to the ranks of the AFA.

The government isn't going to do such a thing without someone to lobby for it. I don't want any interested organization the be big enough to be able to make it happen.

The AFA should not be lobbying for anything as a non-profit organization. Hmmm, at least that is the excuse for not getting involved with issues that might jeopardize what we do for a living, such as interpreting farrier work as Veterinary medicine.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:04 #32

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Phil Armitage wrote:
The AFA should not be lobbying for anything as a non-profit organization. Hmmm, at least that is the excuse for not getting involved with issues that might jeopardize what we do for a living, such as interpreting farrier work as Veterinary medicine.

Does this mean your done talking about certification? Can you post pics of your shoe display?
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:06 #33

Eric Russell wrote:
Does this mean your done talking about certification? Can you post pics of your shoe display?


No shoe display until my trailer is done. The only playing with metal after work is fabricateing my trailer, would you like to see pics of that metal work? :D
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:08 #34

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Phil Armitage wrote:
No shoe display until my trailer is done. The only playing with metal after work is fabricateing my trailer, would you like to see pics of that metal work? :D

You should take a time management course, it helps tons!
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:08 #35

  • Mike Ferrara
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Eric Russell wrote:
which parts are they?

Some time back, in one of these certification conversations I put up a post where I hit on several areas. To redo it here I'd have to go find my old post or go back through the AFA stuff to redo it...maybe later if you're really interested.

I can give you a quick example though off the top of my head. "flatness"...flat is a relative term unless you put numbers to it and, for the most part NOTHING real is perfectly flat. Certainly no farrier has ever gotten a foot or a shoe perfectly flat.

To say that a shoe or a test plate can't rock on the foot doesn't prove much. Three points define a place and three contact points can result in a solid base that doesn't rock.

Looking for light under the plate doesn't cut it because it's dependant on ambient light, viewing angle, the position and nature of other light sources and the position/size/shape of any gap.

Having the plate or shoe rock is a good indication that something isn't flat but the fact that it doesn't rock doesn't prove anything. Seeing light is a good indication that something isn't "flat" but not seeing light may not prove anything.

There are other aspects we can go into like the traceability of the plate and retainable evidence that there was rocking or light, where and how much. Too much is left to the judgement of the examiner/tester for it to be reliable.
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:08 #36

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I have one thing to add to this thread.

If you do not like something or anything about the AFA. There is only one way to make a change.

Get involved

Walking away is not the answer...
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
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Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:09 #37

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Phil Armitage wrote:
No shoe display until my trailer is done. The only playing with metal after work is fabricateing my trailer, would you like to see pics of that metal work? :D

Nah! I just like asking people that are/have trying for certification to see there shoe displays. I'm not sure why I ask though, no one ever has one. Even a partial!
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:10 #38

high performance shoeing wrote:
You should take a time management course, it helps tons!

You should try working in the snow and cold temps. Yea, baby.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:10 #39

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high performance shoeing wrote:
You should take a time management course, it helps tons!

I've taken some of those but they took up too much time and I didn't get anything done.
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:13 #40

BPethick wrote:
I have one thing to add to this thread.

If you do not like something or anything about the AFA. There is only one way to make a change.

Get involved

Walking away is not the answer...

Good advice, I still push guys I know to join and get certified. In that process I have listened to all the reasons not to join. Many say the same thing, no whining or *****ing, very logical reasons. But that requires listening without thinking the person your listening to has an agenda.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:17 #41

  • Mike Ferrara
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Eric Russell wrote:
Does this mean your done talking about certification? Can you post pics of your shoe display?

The shoe display is maybe another one. You don't have to reinvent anything here. Stuff like this is specified and inspected everyday with a high degree of capability.
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:18 #42

  • Mike Ferrara
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BPethick wrote:
I have one thing to add to this thread.

If you do not like something or anything about the AFA. There is only one way to make a change.

Get involved

Walking away is not the answer...

You make it sound like some kind of charity or something.
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:19 #43

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
Some time back, in one of these certification conversations I put up a post where I hit on several areas. To redo it here I'd have to go find my old post or go back through the AFA stuff to redo it...maybe later if you're really interested.

I can give you a quick example though off the top of my head. "flatness"...flat is a relative term unless you put numbers to it and, for the most part NOTHING real is perfectly flat. Certainly no farrier has ever gotten a foot or a shoe perfectly flat.

To say that a shoe or a test plate can't rock on the foot doesn't prove much. Three points define a place and three contact points can result in a solid base that doesn't rock.

Looking for light under the plate doesn't cut it because it's dependant on ambient light, viewing angle, the position and nature of other light sources and the position/size/shape of any gap.

Having the plate or shoe rock is a good indication that something isn't flat but the fact that it doesn't rock doesn't prove anything. Seeing light is a good indication that something isn't "flat" but not seeing light may not prove anything.

There are other aspects we can go into like the traceability of the plate and retainable evidence that there was rocking or light, where and how much. Too much is left to the judgement of the examiner/tester for it to be reliable.


ooookay! I have no idea what your talking about. I'm sure no other tester or examiner does either! I can only assume after trimming you don't look to see if your feet are flat. When I look to see if a foot is flat. 1. Any dips in the toe. 2. quarters gutted. 3. rolled heels 4. high spots.

This isn't rocket science. From the testers/examiners opinion is the foot flat and what varying degrees is it not flat. Of course when its left to the human eye there will be varying opinion. Which is why there are testers and examiners. And tester and examiner updates. Sorry Mike but this isn't a glaring obvious problem.
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:28 #44

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BPethick wrote:
I have one thing to add to this thread.

If you do not like something or anything about the AFA. There is only one way to make a change.

Get involved

Walking away is not the answer...

I attended one afa phone conference. I had to listen to the biggest bunch of *****s I've ever listened to in my life. I highly suggest people get involved and sit through a conference call. It might have not been my calling. Although, I'm still waiting to see about those precerts! I listened to a bunch of guys ***** and moan and I haven't heard about all these precerts going on.
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RE:AFA Certification 31 Mar 2008 23:35 #45

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
You make it sound like some kind of charity or something.

To clarify, the committees are where change within the AFA comes from.

The committees report any changes to the BOD and it is voted to be accepted or not.

The committees are the source of change.

If you would like to see changes within the AFA, you need to get involved on a committee.

Complaining on a web site is just that...
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
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Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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