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TOPIC: Whats up with the AFA?

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 13:08 #91

  • vthorseshoe
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I have heard from a lot of folks, and I have heard both sides from everone
EXCEPT Andrew Elsbree.

During the election everyone spoke and answered questions.
Andrew printed out a statement and that was all we heard from him.

I think it time for all interested to request Mr. Elsbree to step forward and explain his actions/involvement and reactions to and about the resignations and how , if at all he affected/intiated/or requested them

How has his actions as the leader/president of the AFA affected this dilema ?

I am hearing many under currents that make me wonder a lot of things.

Transparency folks ???

Rick has explained
Ron has explained
I have heard opinons from many others

All the above are THEIR versions of what transpired.

I as a PAID MEMBER AND AN active ADVOCATE for the AFA want to hear from Andrew Elsbree.

Everyone has in one form of another asked for accountability from the above.

I am asking for accountability from the man at the top.

Lets get the whole picture out here and then we can have a complete puzzle to look at.

Until this occurs I will not be satisfied.

I am the founder of the Vermont Farriers Association.
I am the past President of said association.
I have been a long time member of the AFA.

As a member of a Chapter of the AFA, I am not just someone making a fuss.
I am a dues paying/voting/active member of the AFA and I believe I have the right to ask for accountability of any officer in the AFA.
This is true of all members. It is our right to be informed to the fullest
how our ELECTED officers represent OUR Association.

Yes it is OUR Association. The minute we pay dues and vote it became all of ours association.

I have said to wait for patience and i still advocate that the proper proceedings take place. The BOD meeting and let them act on our behalf,
but when all is said and done at the meeting in May, I want to know what transpired and what will be done to recify.
Then I want to know that things will transpire so folks will work as a unit and not on an individualistic manner.

I am going to make a Blunt statement here and now and it is this.

I have know Rick Burten for quite a while and if Rick says it happened this way, then until I see visual written proof or have all involved stand before me
and say this is how it went down. I believe what Rick has told me.

I rarely stand totally behind anyone. I believe in Rick as being one of the most honest person I have known in years.

One thing that I would say is that no one should ever take anything for grantit (spelling) If you are going to do something don't rely on anyone else to follow through for you. If you can't accomplish it in person then postpone what ever it is until you can be there in person, or allow someone else to make the decision.
CYA

my 2 cents
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 13:12 #92

  • Mike Ferrara
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Pat, you have to consider the purpose of a test. What skills/knowledge are being tested and is the test indicative of those criteria.

Given what skills are being tested, I don't have a problem with how the horse is to be shod.

I do think there are some problems with how the shoeing and the shoes are evaluated...from my years as a manufacturing and test engineer.

Also, given what's being tested and what isn't, I think the use of the term "journeyman" is questionable.

The bottom line for me is that I just don't care what the AFA has to say on the subject one way or the other so it just doesn't matter what they do with their test. I'm not looking for leadership. I came back to farriery to get away from it. If I want that sort of nonsense, I'll just go back to corporate life where I get a nice air conditioned office.
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 13:38 #93

  • Mike Ferrara
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vthorseshoe wrote:
I am going to make a Blunt statement here and now and it is this.

I have know Rick Burten for quite a while and if Rick says it happened this way, then until I see visual written proof or have all involved stand before me
and say this is how it went down. I believe what Rick has told me.

I rarely stand totally behind anyone I believe in Rick as being one of the most honest person I have known in years.

my 2 cents

I don't know Rick very well but I'm confortable enough with his honesty. However, that doesn't tell my how well he'd do in a finance officers position.

From what I've read here, there was an IT project that went bad? I've seen an awful lot of engineering projects...within budget, over budget, on time, late, seen them acheive project goals and completely fail. I've seen heads roll, people quit and I've seen the guy who screwed it all up come out smelling like a rose.

There's a real art to managing a project of any complexity and insuring it's success..."success" being defined as on time, within budget and meeting or exceeding project goals.
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 14:01 #94

  • Gary_Miller
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Can we please stay on topic and take the argument about the AFA certification test else where.

Its been bashed about so much I bet you can find a tread just for that topic.

Thank You
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 14:25 #95

  • Cyber Farrier
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Gary_Miller wrote:
Can we please stay on topic and take the argument about the AFA certification test else where.

Its been bashed about so much I bet you can find a tread just for that topic.

Thank You

Everybody listen up to Gary.

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
- Mark Twain

“There is no distinctly native American criminal class... save Congress.”
-Mark Twain

“No man's life, liberty, or property is safe...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 15:11 #96

  • vthorseshoe
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I have to go shoe horses,
but I am taking time to acknowledge Andrew Elsbree has been on the phone with me for over a good hour giving me his point of view, answering "any and all questions I had."

Thankyou

I am going to sit back for a while, perhaps at this point due to what I have learned from many people, and I want to see how things unfold from here.
I also need time to ponder and digest so much information.

I do want to say, before anyone critisizes anyone they need to gain a better understanding of what it is really like to be in that persons position.
Making decisions that are acceptable, proper, in accord with the rules or guide lines established to keep things running legally and properly, AREN'T always easy.
Peoples interpretations of proper proceedure differ at times.

It shouldn't be that hard.
Rules of order and By Laws were set up and worded to clarify anything that becomes questionable.
If then a proceedure still is debated then it should be put into limbo and the interpretaton should be clarified before proceeding.



my 2 cents
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 15:30 #97

  • beslagsmed
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vthorseshoe wrote:
I have to go shoe horses,
but I am taking time to acknowledge Andrew Elsbree has been on the phone with me for over a good hour giving me his point of view, answering "any and all questions I had."

Well if he had time to spend on the phone with you, why can't he start a thread on the members only AFA forum and explain a few things. This is what upsets the members most. Come on Andrew, I was just on the AFA forums and nothing is on it yet??
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 17:58 #98

beslagsmed wrote:
Well if he had time to spend on the phone with you, why can't he start a thread on the members only AFA forum and explain a few things. This is what upsets the members most. Come on Andrew, I was just on the AFA forums and nothing is on it yet??

Good question.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 22:07 #99

  • solidrockshoer
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All I can say is its ridiculous the afa doesn't have descent website. It must have taken a lot of thinking to make the most boring website on the internet. GO TEAM! Who's responsible for such boredom on the internet. And who's job is it to fix it?
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 01 Apr 2008 00:46 #100

  • vthorseshoe
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Eric;

The website is an archaic antiquated piece of work, that has been the base of discussion for quite a while.

A committee was formed to work on getting this website updated/trashed and or a new one started or rebuild this one.

Without going into details, it is a nightmare.

It is not that folks haven't been working on said site.
Its not that EVERYONE hasn't done their bit on having something done to accomplsh a working accepable site.

A lot of unexpected things have happened and need to be sorted out before things can progress on.
It is in the making as I understand.

If you have further questions on the website I suggest you contact the AFA office .
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 01 Apr 2008 00:52 #101

  • vthorseshoe
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Mikel, that is a question to ask Andrew.

I rarely go to the AFA website because I can't get it to let me post anything.
I have tried every avenue to get it to happen but to no avail.
Pass word/change password/call a real person/pull what little hair I have left on my head.
Nothing works but it sure gets me so frustrated that I stay away from it before I have a coronary.

I hear all the time post on the AFA site, it should be over there. When it is user friendly and doesn't take a computer geek to access I will post over there.
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 01 Apr 2008 01:04 #102

  • calshoer
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Hey why not, if the only goal is to work to an "arbitrary standard".
NB is very specific and detailed. Still could do handmade shoes, basics in handmades would not change, still have to make a toe bend, forge the heels, turn the branches and punch nail holes. If you know the basics, it should not be a problem.
Please dont turn an AFA politics discussion into another NB discussion. :( That said, you would actually have to turn TWO toe bends. ;).
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 01 Apr 2008 01:20 #103

  • solidrockshoer
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vthorseshoe wrote:
Eric;

The website is an archaic antiquated piece of work, that has been the base of discussion for quite a while.

A committee was formed to work on getting this website updated/trashed and or a new one started or rebuild this one.

Without going into details, it is a nightmare.

It is not that folks haven't been working on said site.
Its not that EVERYONE hasn't done their bit on having something done to accomplsh a working accepable site.

A lot of unexpected things have happened and need to be sorted out before things can progress on.
It is in the making as I understand.

If you have further questions on the website I suggest you contact the AFA office .

Thanks! I think I'll save my dime. At least they formed a commitee! That'll solve it. :rolleyes: Sorry but I don't live in Kansas.
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 01 Apr 2008 01:22 #104

  • solidrockshoer
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calshoer wrote:
Please dont turn an AFA politics discussion into another NB discussion. :( That said, you would actually have to turn TWO toe bends. ;).

That's right! Two toe bends for a pair of shoes. Unfortunately, there's only one toe per foot.;)
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 01 Apr 2008 01:57 #105

Mike Ferrara wrote:
."success" being defined as on time, within budget and meeting or exceeding project goals.

What were the project goals?
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