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TOPIC: Whats up with the AFA?

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:10 #61

  • solidrockshoer
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Hey why not, if the only goal is to work to an "arbitrary standard".
NB is very specific and detailed. Still could do handmade shoes, basics in handmades would not change, still have to make a toe bend, forge the heels, turn the branches and punch nail holes. If you know the basics, it should not be a problem.

Phil- Any chance of you nameing the steps in making a NB shoe from straight stock?
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:14 #62

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Eric Russell wrote:
Phil- Any chance of you nameing the steps in making a NB shoe from straight stock?

What does this have to do with the discussion?
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:19 #63

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reillyshoe wrote:
If I changed the "arbitrary standard" wording to "standardized evaluation", the point is still the same. Changing the "standardized evaluation" criteria would change the perception of the AFA. Understand the same qualifiers would apply, as the AFA could still maintain that "acceptance of these guidelines as a standard method to shoe a horse is not our goal".

The negative perception of the afa tests is usually brought on by people who have not taken the tests or failed the tests.

I don't think it would be all that fair to someone who shoes saddlebreds to have to apply a NB shoe.

What happens in the future when studies suggest the heels shouldn't be taken down as far as many are taking them down now? Should the test be changed again to suit the current style?

For those of you that want the shoe fit changed, do you have any pics of the handmades your currently makeing? Something tells me your practicing perimeter fit handmades not NB handmades.:rolleyes:
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:20 #64

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high performance shoeing wrote:
What does this have to do with the discussion?

Read Phil's original post and you'll understand what this has to do with it~)
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:57 #65

  • George Geist
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high performance shoeing wrote:
What does this have to do with the discussion?
Nothing,
Phil has successfully derailed what began as an interesting and productive thread.

It will now join the hundreds of other AFA Certification ad infinitum ad nauseum arguments.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:59 #66

  • JimBondra
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Ray, Rick, Ron, Gary, Tom
In my opinion, when you quit, you have given up your right to affect change in the AFA. Your opinions or ideas no longer hold any weight.
I find it sad that anyone would let that right go. You all could have made a difference.
Luckily, there are always others that will step up to the plate.
Now I am tired. I have not quite yet recovered.
Good night.
Jim Bondra CJF
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 01:59 #67

  • Gary_Miller
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vthorseshoe wrote:
Gary,

How would you handle this partiular problem of folks resigning over what appears to be a lack of communication and differences of opinions over this website perdicament.
This is not a lack of communication and differences of opinions. Its a lack of letting someone who was appointed as a committee chair and voted in by the general AFA membership (in the case of Rick) the opportunity and freedom to exercise their stewardship, within the guidelines of the AFA bylaws, without interference.

The answer to you question is I would have given those placed in responibility freedom to exercise thier stewadship within the guidelines of the organization.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:08 #68

  • vthorseshoe
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George is correct in this situation.

I asked what others would do to make the AFA workable and running smoothly.
Phil got off on his not liking the AFA test again as he has done so many times in the past.

How would you or what would you do were ou to sit in Andrew's seat or Dick's seat.

What would you have done perhaps in Ron's seat or in Ricks seat ?

Would you make similar decisions or would you have a different approach ?

The AFA test could be one thing you might want to delete or make clearer(if that hasn't already been worked to death) but to debate a dead horse over and over is detracting from this thread.
Please refrain if possible.

I have read some very interesting posts and suggestions.
I have heard some very strong pro's and some strong objections.

This is all good.

To correct a problem folks need to be able to express themselves in a nonsensicle manner.
They need to give or suggest solutions.

They need your honest opinion and how would you fix it.

my 2 cents
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:13 #69

  • vthorseshoe
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Rick.
Were you officially in office at the time .

I only ask this to clarify some facts.

Quote Gary
This is not a lack of communication and differences of opinions. Its a lack of letting someone who was appointed as a committee chair and voted in by the general AFA membership (in the case of Rick) the opportunity and freedom to exercise their stewardship, within the guidelines of the AFA bylaws, without interference.

The answer to you question is I would have given those placed in responibility freedom to exercise thier stewadship within the guidelines of the organization.
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:25 #70

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JimBondra wrote:
Ray, Rick, Ron, Gary, Tom
In my opinion, when you quit, you have given up your right to affect change in the AFA.
I resigned from the finace committee in January because I had other commitments in which I felt had a higher priority that was takeing up my time and I could no longer give the AFA what I felt was needed. Maybe someday down the road things will change then I will be able to get more involved then. Until then I will voice my opion on the issues that I see affecting the AFA both positive and negative. If you don't voice your opion then those in postions of leadership don't know what you want from them and the organization.

As a member of the AFA in good standing I have not given up my right to affect change.

JimBondra wrote:
Your opinions or ideas no longer hold any weight.
Only in the eyes of people who lack vision and leadership.

As a member of the AFA in good standing my opion and ideas should hold as much weight as anyone elses.

JimBondra wrote:
I find it sad that anyone would let that right go. You all could have made a difference.
I'm still an AFA member so I have not yet given up my right to make a difference. However, my desire to me a member is starting to slip away more and more each year when my membership fees com due. Every year I have been told hang around change is comming, thing are going to get better, don't give up now, give it a chance. So far I have seen nothing, and the only incentive I have to remain a member is because the AFA certification program, and my desire to become certified.

JimBondra wrote:
Luckily, there are always others that will step up to the plate.
And I'm thankful and appreciate those who have stepped up to the plate.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:26 #71

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JimBondra wrote:
Ray, Rick, Ron, Gary, Tom
In my opinion, when you quit, you have given up your right to affect change in the AFA. Your opinions or ideas no longer hold any weight.
I find it sad that anyone would let that right go. You all could have made a difference.
Luckily, there are always others that will step up to the plate.
Now I am tired. I have not quite yet recovered.
Good night.
Jim Bondra CJF

Jim,

My way of looking at it is that my AFA dues was paying for what I did not want to see happen, exclusion, it appears that others did not see it the same, that is the way the game is played.

I still say my piece, I even went to Omaha, though not a member of the AFA to show my resolve during the licensing ordeal. I and others "stepped up to the plate" in case others ,AFA or otherwise, could not. I feel I was attempting to represent this trade/profession in al it's facets.

I'm willing to bet that that others you named in the beginning of this post, along with many unnamed have not quit either. They have been at it too long.

Maybe the AFA needs to listen more ! Not sure.

Regards, and I appreciate the discussion,

Ray Steele
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:36 #72

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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JimBondra in gray

Ray, Rick, Ron, Gary, Tom

In my opinion, when you quit, you have given up your right to affect change in the AFA.


I dunno about them other fellows, I don't even know if you're talking about me, but this particular "Tom" is damn sure involved on the periphery of this deal and I sure as hell haven't quit trying. I'm still trying to effect change in the AFA, especially as it pertains to making the public aware of the certification program. You can take this to the bank: Whether or not I get it done, it won't be from lack of try.

Your opinions or ideas no longer hold any weight.

Perhaps not to yourself, perhaps they do to others. The phone still rings.

I find it sad that anyone would let that right go. You all could have made a difference.

I've made a fair hand for lots of years, not because I had any more talent than anybody else, but because I had lots of try. I may run out of time before I make a difference, but it damn sure won't be from lack of try.

Luckily, there are always others that will step up to the plate. Now I am tired. I have not quite yet recovered.

Not everybody - even old, fat, guys who remember Phoenix shoes and Nature Plates - is an easy out. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:47 #73

  • JimBondra
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Tom Stovall
Don't get your undies in a knot! I was talkin about Tom Bloomer.
I should be more specific. AND I remember watchin you and that Chapman fellr on stage in Houston in '83 and Phoenix shoes.
The reason I'm tired and missed the AFA convention is I just had open heart 3 weeks ago. 4 bypasses and a stent put in a month before that.
I would wager that would even wear your old fat self out! If it were any of your business.
Jim Bondra CJF
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:54 #74

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My replies in red

vthorseshoe wrote:

Mikel,

What would you change as to the structure of the AFA ?
I think the last restructuring of the BoD was good
Would you cut back on many of the programs and focus on certification as was the origional concept ?
Certification is no good with out education, kind of getting the cart before the horse. Also if horse owners are not educated that's half the battle.
Would you move forward onto new idea's and programs ?
Get squared away what you got now
Would you say to everyone who wants to quit, Goodbye !! and focus on downsizing the AFA from its present stature ?
If people want to quit you can't stop'em. But there must be a reason for their quitting!!
Has the AFA gotten so big it can't function properly anymore.
Good question. With the lack of communication they have now, maybe it would be better to fall back and regroup.
Does the AFA need to go the way of the WCB and leave the baggage behind ?
Hey the WCB (as a member of the AFA) gave the AFA an offer to take over the running of the competitions. Why wasn't the leaders smart enough to take them up on this. It would have been one less thing on their plate and they could have focused on other things. **** move since you ask me!!
What are your thoughts ??? In reality,"Is the AFA worth saving ????" Is it of value ?
For all the negativity is the AFA worth the effort of the many volunteers it takes to keep it going ??

Was all the efforts,time,work,visions, etc. of the members and leaders of the past all for naught ?
Has the hay day for the AFA come to its end ? Is it on a down hill path ?

For me the biggest problem is COMMUNICATION. I live half way around the world and the internet and mail is my communication with the AFA. The excuse that information could not be posted on the AFA website is lame. Last time I checked (this weekend) one still could access the members only part of the site. One still could start a thread on the forums. So what is the problem with using this mode of communication? I was just a **** infantry guy who pointed and grunted at the sky, but I understand communication.

I believe this is the biggest problem COMMUNICATION. Members just want to know what is going on - good or bad. Don't do the beat around the bush about stuff, be a man about it and come out and let us know.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Whats up with the AFA? 31 Mar 2008 02:55 #75

  • ray steele
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JimBondra wrote:
Tom Stovall
Don't get your undies in a knot! I was talkin about Tom Bloomer.
I should be more specific. AND I remember watchin you and that Chapman fellr on stage in Houston in '83 and Phoenix shoes.
The reason I'm tired and missed the AFA convention is I just had open heart 3 weeks ago. 4 bypasses and a stent put in a month before that.
I would wager that would even wear your old fat self out! If it were any of your business.
Jim Bondra CJF

Jim,

My best, and anything I can do let me know! even though !

Best Regards

Ray Steele
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