make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Sunday September 25, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Whats up with the AFA?

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 19:21 #31

  • Scott Chaney
  • Scott Chaney's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Contributing Member
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
"The AFA is alive and well, membership keeps it alive and well."

So what do you attribute the reduction in memberships to?
It is my understanding we're in the 1700's now instead of the 3000's.
That to me is a huge drop in a short amount of time.
For me, it was the agendas driven by personal gain that first got my attention.
But it also has to do with the ineffective way the AFA ...."the premier association" ... has repeatedly and continually dropped the ball in owner education.
I'm not sure who all "made the team" this year, but from what I could gather, hardly anyone from last year's team checked the box to be considered for the team in the forging competition....very few even checked it at all.
I guess my point is that this association has had the wrong focus for years...decades, really.
They point to international forging competitions are the zenith of accomplishments...a very good venture, I admit, but it should not be the main focus of our efforts when there are growing numbers of newby horse owners buying horses and having literally no information about good, qualified hoof care.
I know that at least one really good plan for owner education has been gathering dust somewhere for several years now...."no money for it".

With almost half of the members gone and disgusted, owners are learning some important things about this organization instead of their horses.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 19:24 #32

  • anvilsteve
  • anvilsteve's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 225
  • Karma: 0
George-
In the past, there was a proposal before the USDA to ban all pads for all horse activities, due to abuses by a few. Randy Luikart on behalf of the AFA went to DC and dealt with the matter. We have no lobbyists. The point is that a large national assoc. along with other horses assoc. gives us a lot of clout when legislators do things that directly or indirectly effect us. ie. closing trails to horses, imposing new sensless regulations on horse activities, and sometimes even shoeing issues. Alone, we mean nothing, if a bicycle group wants to ban horses from a trail, for instance. Maybe if that goes through, you loose horses to shoe. It happens.

So one benefit to having a large farrier assoc. is the weight in numbers when we need it.

Steve Kraus, CFJ
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 19:26 #33

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Scott- if your wondering where the team members are from last year you just need to check out who's on the WCB team.

http://www.worldchampionshipblacksmiths.com/default.aspx?type=wm&module=4&id=2&state=DisplayFullText&item=10700

"The WCB proudly presents our first WCB Horseshoeing Team: Bill Poor, Billy Reed, Todd Walker and Travis Koons will represent the WCB in Calgary at the upcoming World Championships. GO TEAM GO!"
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 19:27 #34

Bruce,

It is indeed unfortunate that you, and I suspect others, mistake my dissatisfaction with how things have been handled by a few people with a general dissatisfaction or anger toward the AFA as a whole. I have and will likely always believe in what the AFA would like to be and has the potential of being with good leadership.

You asked for a few ideas so here they are. Mind you I have already shared these with several of the current Board members so this is nothing new.

First, the Board of Directors needs to take back control of the association and set significant limits on the authority and methods used by the EC to manage the business of the AFA. At this time my experience with the EC is that they believe that they have the authority to do just about anything that they want to do as long as they couch their actions in “the day to day business of the association.” IF the board can not figure out how to create manageable limits they need to eliminate the EC all together. The EC should only administer the policies of the Board, not create new policies as need arises.

Next, I believe that the issue of committee leadership needs to be cleaned up a bit. The President should be seen as nominating new committee chairs as those slots become vacant with the Board of Directors confirming those nominations. I believe that the Board should interview nominees on a verity of subjects and then decide if the candidate fits where the Board believes that committee should be heading.

Next, the Board of Directors should establish clear mission statements for each committee and should work closely with the committees to develop policies governing the business of the committees. There should be clear and unequivocal guidance from the Board directly to the committees and clear unobstructed communications between the committees and the Board. The committees are the back bone of the AFA and they should transcend any “administration.” There should be requirements for qualifications for chairmanship and one of them should be that the new chair must have been a member of the committee so there is continuity in knowledge and direction. In the event that there are no qualified committee members then by all means appoint someone new, but it should be one of the tasks of the committee chair to develop the members of their committee to all be qualified to take over as chairman. The number and duties of committee members should be controlled by the Board of Directors to insure that there are always enough varying viewpoints to insure vibrant conversation.

Next, I believe that each member of the board should server on a minimum of one committee so that they can provide a board level perspective to committee business and so that they can communicate to the other board members about the committee in their general deliberations. I however do not believe that they should be committee chairmen. The Board members have a lot of work to do and they need to be free to focus on that work, not lobbying for the committee that they chair.

Next, there is a huge depth of talent in the membership of the AFA. With more and more people becoming second carrier farriers we are attracting some of the best and brightest from other industries and they have experience that can benefit the AFA and we need to create a culture that not only welcomes that contribution but that treats those contributions like the valuable gems that they are.

Finely, we need to develop true leadership and professional skills in those that seek to lead the members of the association. Unfortunately name recognition is the way elections are won in the AFA. If we are going to avoid the kind of meltdowns that seem to happen on such a frequent basis we need our leaders to be educated on what leadership really is. Leaders work to fix the problem, not the blame. Leaders work to provide their team with the tools they need to do their jobs and then let them do the jobs that they are good at. Leaders always praise those they lead in public and criticize them in private. To accomplish this I believe that ever newly elected or appointed official should have to take a leadership seminar immediately after they assume their position. Just teaching them some basic skills in a one or two day seminar would go a very, very long way to moving this association forward.

OK Bruce, There you have a few thoughts. Now do you think anyone will listen?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 19:37 #35

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
anvilsteve wrote:
George-
In the past, there was a proposal before the USDA to ban all pads for all horse activities, due to abuses by a few. Randy Luikart on behalf of the AFA went to DC and dealt with the matter. We have no lobbyists. The point is that a large national assoc. along with other horses assoc. gives us a lot of clout when legislators do things that directly or indirectly effect us. ie. closing trails to horses, imposing new sensless regulations on horse activities, and sometimes even shoeing issues. Alone, we mean nothing, if a bicycle group wants to ban horses from a trail, for instance. Maybe if that goes through, you loose horses to shoe. It happens.

So one benefit to having a large farrier assoc. is the weight in numbers when we need it.

Steve Kraus, CFJ
Ok,
The situation with Mr Luikart was before the 501(c)(3) deal. Since then they have been prohibited by law from any such activities.

In my state issues such as closing trails to horses has always been dealt with by the state horse council and various riding groups.

Reason I bring this up is for 2 reasons.

1) When the 501(c)(3) deal was done it was with no input from the membership. Due to other things I've been involved with I was familiar with what it would mean and the adverse effects it would have. At the time I was a lone voice crying in the wilderness about that. The way I saw it even if you were for it, it was still wrong to cram it down the membership's throats. This was just the beginning of many instances of people working on their own agendas though.

2) Right now the horse industry is faced with very serious problems in the redefining of what constitutes vet medicine. These laws are spreading like a cancer throughout the country. AFA has never taken a stand on it and will not discuss it. Why do they behave like ostriches about this? If they profess to represent horseshoers this would be a good place to start.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 19:51 #36

  • anvilsteve
  • anvilsteve's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 225
  • Karma: 0
George-
Your points are well taken, I expect the new BOD will take action where needed in that respect. I, as, they want this kind of input from you guys about these things, keep it coming. A lot of good info. for us is coming out of this discussion. Thank you.
Steve Kraus
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 20:13 #37

  • Scott Chaney
  • Scott Chaney's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Contributing Member
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 0
Eric Russell wrote:
Scott- if your wondering where the team members are from last year you just need to check out who's on the WCB team.

http://www.worldchampionshipblacksmiths.com/default.aspx?type=wm&module=4&id=2&state=DisplayFullText&item=10700

"The WCB proudly presents our first WCB Horseshoeing Team: Bill Poor, Billy Reed, Todd Walker and Travis Koons will represent the WCB in Calgary at the upcoming World Championships. GO TEAM GO!"

I have been keeping abreast, Eric. Thanks.

Striker gets a new Stonewell...that's cool.
See, I LIKE competitions. I think they are a very GOOD thing. We need them in some fashion, but not at the expense of our owners. It is supposed to be them and their horses that benefit from us belonging to the AFA.
I just think there are ways of conveying the authority, knowledge and benefits of AFA membership to owners than focusing on competition at the convention.
If they saw the AFA spending half on their (owner) education the AFA spends on competition, I think they'd like that.
That was an example...not a proposal...
There ought to be owner clinics throughout the nation on several levels, depths and durations so owners could begin to recognize the AFA for what it is meant to be.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 20:39 #38

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Phil Armitage in gray

Bruce, I thought I gave my opinion in a positive manner. The AFA needs to get with the future. The future is the internet, Web sites and discussion forums.

The future of farriery - not just the AFA - lies in one's personal commitment to a continued development of the relevant motor skills and increasing one's knowledge of anatomy, physiology, and biophysics. The future of farriery does not lie in giving credence to press releases, "educational" websites, and junkscience found on the internet, the future of farriery lies in stuff that works.

For some reason the AFA's area on their site to communicate is dead, very little participation.

So what? It takes two to tango - if you want to participate, do so.

This forum is a good example of good communications. Good, bad, negative or whatever take what you can when your trying to get your finger on the pulse.

This is a wonderful forum, but it takes a player to recognize a player - a neophyte can't tell the difference without a program.

One thing that needs to change is old timers replying to feedback as sour gripes. I know the only way some of these old timers will listen is if you pass AFA testing.

LMAO! Whining ain't "feedback", it's just whining all gussied up in its Sunday best.

Why should it change? Everyone who has passed the AFA's tests is a better farrier for devoting the time and effort necessary to do so, but the tests are voluntary. If you're unwilling/unable to learn enough material and develop the motor skills necessary to pass the test, don't take the damn test! As I see it, it's unseemly to whine like a sissy with a hangnail about how difficult a test is when you aren't willing to put forth the effort necessary to pass it.

Here is some food for thought, don't know if it is true or not. Maybe the lack of membership and certification is because many farriers do not agree with the standard test and education that the AFA has to offer.

Ever hear of a strawman argument? It's a common logical fallacy that usually begins, "I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard something or other." Who gives a rat's south end about hearsay and gossip? Lemme offer you a little food for thought: Why should the AFA's tests be dombed down? What good is a test with standards set by pandering to the lowest common denominator? The untalented? The inept? I fully understand that not everyone is motivated to take the AFA's CF because we all march to the beat of our own drummers. But, for folks who choose to test themselves against standardized criteria, the AFA offers the ONLY objectively quantified farrier test in the USA and any subjectivity in the testing procedure arises from the tester's understanding of the standards, not the lack of standardized testing criteria.

How about questions like this as a poll to AFA and non AFA farriers?


Forgive me for stating the obvious, but when one has failed the AFA's basic test of knowledge and motor skills - as you have - the immediate perception is that you have an agenda and that your criticism of folks' motives who've passed the AFA's basic test is just sour grapes, not "feedback."
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:02 #39

  • MtnHermit
  • MtnHermit's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 0
My previous career was in organizational consulting and turn around management specializing in Not For Profit groups. 9 times out of 10 one of the major reasons the not for profits were facing challenges similar to what appears to be happening in the AFA it is because the Board of Directors become involved in the daily operations of the organization. The most successful organizations have a board that determines organizational policy (budget, programs, position statements, etc.)and leaves the operation of the business aspect up to a staff person, whether that staff person be an Executive Director or otherwise.
That staff person is responsible for operating the business operations is responsible for conducting those operations within the policies determined by the BOD. Want to loose a staff member? Then have board members start crossing over that line. It is a recipe for disaster.
As for Executive Committees, they should not be making the daily business decisions either. Their purpose should be to make quick decisions when a full board meeting can not be called and to assist the staff member in making a decision when that staff member feels the decision is beyond their purvue.
Political infighting is common in all organizations, not for profit and otherwise, but I have yet to see a not for profit organization be truly successful where the policy deciders cross the line and become the business operators as well (or vice versa).
BTW I became a farrier because getting sat on and kicked by horses seemed much more enjoyable than dealing with the kind of **** that goes on in that kind of work :) At heart attack at a very young age due to the stress of dealing with these situations pushed me over the edge. It is a tough road to go down when dealing with the kind of complications the AFA is facing and if I could make one suggestion it would be to hire an independant consultant that specializes in not for profit organizational development and listen and implement their recommendations. It would be money well spent.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:14 #40

Hey Tom, don't get me wrong I am not asking to **** down the test. Make it more complicated, make it as complicated as it can get. The current test and standard is better than nothing, however better than nothing does not mean a high standard.

Yes I failed the written and the practical, it is a journey. This is a difficult trade a lot to learn, skills and knowledge. Unfortunately the AFA does not provide a good enough education compared to what others outside of the AFA can teach.

We can start with debating the standard for the practical, it flys in the face of what most consider properly shod. Why teach and have a farrier prepare for this standard when this is not what most good farriers will do in everyday work on competitive horses?

The basics are good to have, shoe shaping and fitting, handmades, good nailing. But, no focus on balance, breakover, center of articulation, trimming the heels all things that need to be taken into consideration for bio mechanics. I'm sorry but saying to gain proper H/P axis remove more toe, leave heel, take more heel off is a joke.

I do not see why each horse on test day cannot be properly trimmed, balanced and shod with what the horse needs and the examiner know the difference.

To be honest I have a hard time justifying preparing for a practical that fits the shoe to a distorted toe, it just does not make sense. Why should I improperly shoe a horse to prep for the AFA practical?

You call it whineing I call it feedback. Why can't you accept feedback. Not asking anyone to agree with me, just telling it like I see it.

I am all for education, many sources for good education out there.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:20 #41

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Phil Armitage wrote:


We can start with debating the standard for the practical, it flys in the face of what most consider properly shod. Why teach and have a farrier prepare for this standard when this is not what most good farriers will do in everyday work on competitive horses?


I do not see why each horse on test day cannot be properly trimmed, balanced and shod with what the horse needs and the examiner know the difference.

To be honest I have a hard time justifying preparing for a practical that fits the shoe to a distorted toe, it just does not make sense. Why should I improperly shoe a horse to prep for the AFA practical?
LMYAO!!!!
Don't tell me Phil, you want talk of pillars and sole callouses and such?:rolleyes:

Enough of this nonsense lets not let the never ending certification BS hijack this one. It started out pretty productive.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:23 #42

George Geist wrote:
LMYAO!!!!
Don't tell me Phil, you want talk of pillars and sole callouses and such?:rolleyes:

Enough of this nonsense lets not let the never ending certification BS hijack this one. It started out pretty productive.
George

I don't care what you call it. It makes me sick to see farriers over trimming the sole, bars and frog because they don't have a clue what the hell they are doing. I know certified farriers that would not know medial/lateral balance if it bit them in the butt.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:25 #43

Scott Chaney wrote:
So what do you attribute the reduction in memberships to?
From the numbers you provide, I would attribute it to rumor. You've tossed out a number that's considerably more than 1,000 under the actual figure.

Scott Chaney wrote:
It is my understanding we're in the 1700's now instead of the 3000's.
I find it interesting that farriers tend to talk about the AFA in terms of "we" and "us" even when they're explaining why they are not willing to join or re-join.
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.foxtailforge.com


“Watch what people are cynical about, and you will often discover what they lack." General George S. Patton Jr.

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:27 #44

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Phil Armitage wrote:
I don't care what you call it. It makes me sick to see farriers over trimming the sole, bars and frog because they don't have a clue what the hell they are doing. I know certified farriers that would not know medial/lateral balance if it bit them in the butt.
You been talking to some of the BUA trimmers? That sounds like their rhetoric:rolleyes:
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Whats up with the AFA? 30 Mar 2008 21:39 #45

  • reillyshoe
  • reillyshoe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2690
  • Thank you received: 7
  • Karma: 4
If you are looking for suggestions:
The certification process is supposedly about working to an "arbitrary standard". Why not switch away from the perimeter fit for a few years. Imagine what would happen if the AFA required a NB trim/shoe for certification? All stereotypical notions of the AFA would be dispelled, and you would embrace a whole lot of farriers.

Of course it would never happen....
P
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • clearhillsfarrier birthday is today
  • Creager7850 birthday is today
  • lindar131 birthday is today
  • Dennis Peveto birthday is in 1 day
  • ironmanhorseshoeing birthday is in 1 day
  • Robyn Beane birthday is in 1 day
  • vanderblij birthday is in 1 day
  • Viking farrier birthday is in 1 day
  • newyearsbaby05 birthday is in 363 days
  • Rancho JD birthday is in 364 days
  • Tony Dunagan birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.234 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.