Please Give Me Your Insight On Photos

[kmc52462]

27-2007, 10:25 PM
kmc52462
Member Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 27

Please Give Me Your Insight On Photos

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I have a horse who has been sore with bruising/inflammation on the r/f heel area due to long toe/underun heels. She is usually shod in eventers & rims but Dr. had me put her in steel eggbars and just handwalking but have not seen any improvement, infact she is much worse.It has been 4 weeks.Took her to the vet and Dr. said eggbars farrier put on are too small and causing more pain/ heel pressure. Hospital farrier put new shoes on and she is going sound almost overnight.She has been moving close to perfect ever since. A few of you didn't agree with the second shoeing either. I can only go by my horses soundness by the second set but want to know why you do not like the way this horse was reshod? They did go over the xrays at the hospital first before doing anything. Please give me some insight since I do not know what I should do when it is time to have her reshod which is in 2 weeks. I have to either let the old shoer (first set of eggbars) or hospital shoer redo her until I find someone in my area. I was told she would probably go back to reg. shoes in 4 weeks if everything is good. What would you do?

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Last edited by kmc52462 : 10-13-2007 at 11:33 AM. Reason: no response

[Gary Hill]

If I remember how that last thread went, the second shoeing was agreed to be the better result for your horse, BUT that it need some sort of frog support, and a better breakover.

[Rick Burten]

I remember it the same as Gary does.

One question: Is the foot in the before photos the same foot as is pictured in the after photos?

[calshoer]

Without frog support, that foot is going to continue on a path to a WORSE negative palmer angle coffin bone as the frog contimues to sink through that thick package until it gets to the ground. Tha ttakes the back of the coffin bone down with it.
The heels bulbs are being stressed , as there is NO support to the back of the foot because the pad stops far short. Frankly, the horse would be better off barefoot than with that particular shoeing.
Patty

[kmc52462]

Remember, the horse is now sound. Shoes are hopefully only for 4 wks and then vet is to recheck. If she were barefoot she would be so sore and not be able to walk. I don't see why that would help? Pressure must be off something or she wouldn't be pain free. I now understand what you are saying about the frog needing support but what about the question I had regarding xrays? Could there be a reason not to?

[Rick Burten]

This foot appears to have undergone an amazing transformation, from an underrun heel dished toe appearance to an underrun heel- bullnosed toe appearance. Neither of which is a good condition.

As Patty indicated, this horse needs frog support. For a coffin bone to have moved from its former orientation to its current orientation, indicates to me that the lack of frog support allowed the frog and the structures above it to prolapse, and prolapse quickly. I'd sure want to see some current radiographs before I reshod this horse.

The only way I'd add wedges to this package was if the frog and bars and commissures were all correctly supported, and just looking at the 'after' photo, wedging is indicated. And so is better breakover location.

[calshoer]

When the vet and farrier looked over the x-rays and tested the foot would there be a reason they were not concerned about the horse needing frog support?

Because they apparently are shoeing to align the bones based only according to the Xray but ignoring the supportive and connective *tissues* inside the foot that have to HOLD THE BACK OF THE BONE UP .

I am curious and clueless to any of this and just want to do the right thing.

see above.

Also I remember him saying he thought wedge pads might make things worse

Ask him why.Ill bet that he thinks that wedge pads will crish the heels worse, and they will, IF FROG support is not included in the shoeing, and IF the heels do not get properly trimmed *back as far as possible* to elongate the base of the foot and get to good straght horn that is not underrun *before the wedges are applied*.

and also telling vet that he didn't have much to work with this time and couldn't take much off without making horse even more sore. Please respond.

There are many creative materials and ways to deal with those issues without making he horse sore, but apparently your farrier does not have the means to do it. Yes, you are seeing temporary soundness (I'll bet not 100% sound to his potential ) at the moment ,but it will be short lived as this shoeing causes more heel pain because the insides of the back of the foot are prolasping and the heels are still underrunning.
In other words,with the frog sinking the insides are going south (prolapsing) while the outside is going north. (jamming up) . All the tissues in between get torn and bruised, hence the heel pain.
Patty

[calshoer]

And Maybe this will explain it easier: The arrows are the general direction of hoof movement or forces when the foot bears weight. . In a properly loading foot with the frog working, the heel bulb movement should is UPward and and OUTward, not inward and down.

[calshoer]

And I am in agreement with Rick. The foot was not bulged before, despite the sun glare. I manipulated the contrast, brightness and midtones in my computer to better see the outline of the hoofwall. It clearly had a normal hoof angle in the top third of the hoofwall , and distoprtion (flare) at the bottom, creating the dish. before the addition of the rim pads, and now clearly bulged all the way down. . The rapidness of the dissapearance of the "dish" in the center section of the hoofwall from this to what is there now is a bit frightening.
Patty

[Rick Burten]

Thanks Patty. You see exactly what I saw, sunlight not withstanding. Glad to know that my poor old tired eyes aren't deceiving me.

All her feet do not have an "amazing transformation". Just someone who doesn't recognize different camera angles,sunlight and amateur photography,

ROTFLMAO! You admit that you are clueless , yet you accuse me of not recognizing camera angles, sunlight and amateur photography? Amazing.

Whatcha want to bet that radiographs of the foot before, will show p3 rotating downward at its distal leading edge, and rads taken after will show a negative plane p3?