What do I need to do to correct this??

[The Even Slower than Slow]

I've had some xray taken of my horse and didn't realise until after the xray where taken how badly I've been shoeing my horse

The fronts are the worst, the backs from what the vet said are correct as I've managed to get the back of the shoe over the butrice of the heal (not sure if I've spelt that right) Any suggestions would be really appreciated as I'm always still learning.
http://www.geocities.com/nouzeel/Mypage.html

I hope I've done this correctly but there are 2 xray's on there 1 Left Front and 1 Right front

[THamilton]

Please post pictures of the foot. Side/front/rear and bottom with the foot cleaned please. X-rays show some things but it is nice to see the actually foot too.

Thanks,
tony

[SlowShoe]

I would start with bringing the breakover point back. You'll have to start useing side clips instead of toe clips. Do you have larger pictures?

[The Even Slower than Slow]

I've only got those xray's at the moment and it's currently night time here at the time of posting this. So I'll grab photo's tomorrow, and try to post them.

[Brian Gwartz]

From the x-ray, which can't show everything, I can see that there is a large strain between P1 and P2. The foot is not under the horse, that angle has to be changed.
I can also see that the shoe is more in front of the leg than the foot is.
Moving it back can be tricky. Just moving the shoe back or the breakover point back doesn't work because that won't correct the angle pressure on the P1 and P2 joints.
You may have to cut off toe every week for a while, while the heel grows out and down.

Brian Gwartz

[Rick Burten]

Originally Posted by Brian Gwartz

From the x-ray, which can't show everything, I can see that there is a large strain between P1 and P2.

Brian,

Would you explain, for my benefit and perhaps that of others, how you determined that there was a large strain between p1 and p2.

I agree that the shoe is mal-positioned, but don't you think that with this radiograph, a competent farrier should be able to determine +/- where breakover should occur, how much heel support is necessary, etc.

[The Even Slower than Slow]

thanks for the info. I've managed to get a mate of mine (who I haven't seen in a long time) to sort it out and in the process teach me a thing or 3. He cut the toe and has place quarter clips on the front to bring the shoe back further, cut and heal back but place wedge under them to support the heal a bit better, and then told me to come back in 4 weeks and access the situation. In all this process I still haven't been able to talk photo's as I can't find my camera so that will have to be my next investment.

Brian one thing though what do you mean by " the long strain between P1 and P2" I know this will probably sound silly but also what is the P1 and P2???

[Rick Burten]

Brian one thing though what do you mean by " the long strain between P1 and P2" I know this will probably sound silly but also what is the P1 and P2???

For this reply, I changed the color so I wouldn't go blind or get a migraine

P1= the long pastern bone/first phalanx/phalanges

p2= the short pastern bone

p3= the coffin bone/pedal bone

[calshoer]

It sounds like your friend is getting it on the right track. Basically (from the Xrays) the shoe probably needed to be slid back more, backed off the toe some. And then the overhanging toe just bevelled in the front bottom edge, not dubbed off.
On a light hearted note, since the bone alignment didnt look too bad I was going to suggest just marking a line across the sole an inch behind the frog tip, drawing it on the sole and the shoe. Then take the shoe off, grind off the clip and turn it around backward and nail it on again with the lines still matching on the the foot and shoe. Instant "open toed egg bar shoe" with breakover brought back, problem solved....
Patty

[Jaye Perry]

Originally Posted by Brian Gwartz

From the x-ray, which can't show everything, I can see that there is a large strain between P1 and P2. The foot is not under the horse, that angle has to be changed.
I can also see that the shoe is more in front of the leg than the foot is.
Moving it back can be tricky. Just moving the shoe back or the breakover point back doesn't work because that won't correct the angle pressure on the P1 and P2 joints.
You may have to cut off toe every week for a while, while the heel grows out and down.

Brian Gwartz

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM One major malady????

[calshoer]

Moving it back can be tricky. Just moving the shoe back or the breakover point back doesn't work because that won't correct the angle pressure on the P1 and P2 joints.

HUH? I've been at this for nearly 25 years now read nearly every anatomy book available and never heard of any "P1 and P2 joints" OR "angle pressure" .
And there are certainly a P1 and P2 BONES, but never a joint named that.
And Brian, FYI, moving the breakover back CAN change the alignment of the coffin joint. It has been proven.
Geesh.
Patty

[mountaintrailrider]

Calshoer,
The P1 P2 and P3 joint is the same thing as saying the coffin joint, pastern joint and fetock joint. Example from http://www.upei.ca/~vca341/equinelimbs/index.html

Metacarpophalangeal or metatarsophalangeal joint = Fetlock

Proximal interphalangeal joint = Pastern

Distal interphalangeal joint = Coffin joint

Just for your information, I apologize if I sound "know it all-ish"

Ashley

[calshoer]

Ashley,
First, the question about joint names wasn't directed at you anyway .
Second, I TEACH equine anatomy to my college farrier science class so I perfectly well know the terminology.
That said.... about your statement,

Calshoer,
The P1 P2 and P3 joint is the same thing as saying the coffin joint, pastern joint and fetock joint.

You're wrong.
The coffin joint involves P2, P3 and the distal sesamoid (the navicular bone, NOT P1.
The fetlock joint involves P1 and the distal cannon bone, NOT P2 or P3.
The pastern joint involves P1 and P2 , NOT P3.
And your reference about doing radiography also does not seem to use any "P2- P3 joint" or similar terms, (nor do any anatomy texts thaty I know of ) as the farrier in question here did, and failed to to respond to when questioned about it. He made some statements about being able to see joint stresses that he can not seem to answer. Patty
Patty

[Redd Mcintyre]

Jaye, Would you mind explaining the highlights on the xray. I'm not very clear in what you have marked up and/or what I'm supposed to see
Thanks Redd Mcintyre

[Rick Burten]

Originally Posted by mountaintrailrider

Calshoer,
The P1 P2 and P3 joint is the same thing as saying the coffin joint, pastern joint and fetock joint.

No, you are quite incorrect.

[Example from http://www.upei.ca/~vca341/equinelimbs/index.html

If anything, this reference clearly contradicts your assertions.

I apologize if I sound "know it all-ish"

Nothing to apologize for as you have demonstrated your "know nothing-ishness"

However, the door is now open, let the education commence........