Suggestions needed!!

[BurnbankSportHorses]

Hi guys, i have a 6yo Clydie x Thoroughbred mare, who was belted by an ***** of a farrier as a youngster. This "farrier" claimed to be a specialist in young horses, but belted her in the guts as hard as he could with his rasp - because the 18 month old FOAL wouldn't stand perfectly still. (she was rocking back and forth, wasn't snatching her hooves away, wasn't trying to kick etc) To cut a long story short, she freaked out and pulled back, the halter snapped and she flipped herself over backwards.

Took about 12 months before she was confident enough to be handled by a farrier again, and was great for trimmings, but hates being shod. She hates the noise of the hammer, the feeling of the hammer banging etc. Shes now been shod for almost two years, and we still have to fight with her. She was VERY nervous to start with, she would panic herself and end up covered in foamy sweat and stand there shaking etc. Through me and my new farrier (who is amazing!) working with her calmly and persisting with her, she is now 99% over her fear of farriers - but now it seems its just habit to refuse to have her front shoes done.

12 months ago it would take us about 2 hours just to get the shoes OFF, and about 3 more hours to get new ones on! I'm sure many of you have dealt with crappy Clydesdale feet which crack and break apart almost instantly, this horse CAN NOT go without shoes - due to not being able to have her trimmed for the 12 months after she was abused her hooves suffered and years later we are still working to completely correct the damage that was done in that year. We ended up resorting to giving her a sedation paste - which helped a bit because she was sedated but not enough that she didn't know what was going on. Recently we have done it without the drugs, but still have to use a twitch while doing her front shoes. Last time she was shod we had back ones put on for the first time - and she stood like an angel and was half asleep.

My farrier went back and picked up her front hooves again thinking we had FINALLY had a breakthrough but NO she went back to her rearing, pulling away, refusing to pick them up, snatching them away etc. She isn't scared anymore - she knows my farrier very well and doesn't shake, sweat etc like she used to, she just has it set in her head to be a complete ***** when hes trying to do her front shoes.

People keep asking me why i even bother with her and why i don't just have her barefoot, but if i have her barefoot - shes as good as dead. This horse is an amazing horse, who i've known since the day she was born. Shes the reason i got back into riding after coming close to being killed in a horse accident - she has brought me so much happiness, i owe this to her. This problem was caused by a person, not by her.

Any suggestions on ANYTHING that can be done to help her get over this would be greatly appreciated. Not only is this annoying for me as her owner its HELL for my farrier, he has done an amazing job with her and he shouldn't have to deal with this but unfortunately there are some *****s out there that create problems like this. I really want help with this for my farriers sake, not for mine.

[BurnbankSportHorses]

Forgot to add - i have done a lot of work with her to get her over the sound/feeling of the hammer, and now i can stand there and bang on her hooves with a hammer all day and it doesn't bother her -but when it comes to actually shoeing her it becomes an issue again.

[Gary Hill]

Apparently it is the position that her legs are in that makes her uncomfortable. If you can bang on her feet with a hammer and she takes it, then when the Farrier has them between his legs he may have her too high? I have had alot of them like this that just will not allow you to have them held high or in a normal position? Get lower and they get comfortable. Good Luck!

[DavidinGA]

I was gonna say what Mr. Hill said, I've also seen horses that would fight if the hoof was held too high or too far to the side or just about anyway but just how they wanted it. Does your farrier use a hoof cradle? I know some guys who swear by them and some who just swear at them but it sounds like it would be worth a try for your girl. Also, you might want to look up a member named Bruce Matthews ( I hope I spelled that right) and look into his DVD. I haven't seen it ( it's on my Christmas List though) but I understand from other members that it demonstrates a very good method for training/re training horses to stand for a farrier.

Hope this helps
David

[horse_n_hoof]

This has been a very common problem for me with any large draft breed, and not a single one of them have ever been abused (that we are aware of). I have tried a cradle with no apparent success, the owners have routinely worked with the front feet between their legs, even tried sedatives for some. It has been especially common in Clydesdales for me, and so far no luck at all, not even the vet seems to have a better suggestion. One of my client's horses gets so frustrated that he purposely lays down on top of me with no warning (I quit doing him incidentally). I am a very gentle person, very patient, never show my frustration so the horse will feel comfortable, but I have not found a cure. Keep working with her, hang in there, and I'm sorry for the pain she suffered that first time, shame on him!

[brian robertson]

Two options: Drugs and/or Glue.

By the way, who told you an 18 mo old was a foal? Most Clyde x TB crossbreds are about 15.2h and 1200lb at 18mo and should have been trained to stand for hoofcare. Why wasn't this one? Wasn't your LOVE enough for the BABY?

This horse should be done by the European method: the owner holds the leg and foot while the farrier stands to the side to trim and nail up. Then that "only rocking back and forth" might suddenly become an issue for somebody besides the farrier.

[E and E Farm]

Yes I agree with DavidinGA that Bruce Matthews is the person to consult with on this behavior issue. Personally I have found his methods to be extremely effective. Sometimes these breeds can have EPSM and also similar appearing shivers. Both conditions have been described as having signs as you have described-snatching the leg away, abnormal muscle tension when the leg is lifted, tremor in lifted and supporting limbs, etc. Also horses with suspensory pain will get a "compartment syndrome" according to Sue Dyson and this may lead to pain reactions when the leg is lifted into certain positions the horse does not usually adopt. If it was me I would try Bruce's methods consistently for 2 weeks 3 times per week minimum. If the horse has not improved, then perhaps speak to your vet and get a biopsy from these folks-
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/home.html
they are very knowledgable and approachable. Some ppl stop all dietary simple sugars while they start feeding properly cooked linseed daily gradually in 1/4 cup increments, only increasing the amount after each 7 day period. Lysine is required for muscle repair as well. Checking the total minerals your horse is getting and bringing them into the required balance also helps muscle function and recovery. Parasites and toxins can cause muscle and behavioral problems too. Katy Watts on this forum knows about nutrition so she might be of help. Our thoughts are with you in helping your horse accept help from your farrier.


linseed recipe

cover with twice the amount of water and simmer for three (3) hours, adding water as neccessary
let cool uncovered and then refrigerate covered to store for up to 4 days

[Kaydence]

Originally Posted by horse_n_hoof

This has been a very common problem for me with any large draft breed, and not a single one of them have ever been abused (that we are aware of). I have tried a cradle with no apparent success, the owners have routinely worked with the front feet between their legs, even tried sedatives for some. It has been especially common in Clydesdales for me, and so far no luck at all, not even the vet seems to have a better suggestion. One of my client's horses gets so frustrated that he purposely lays down on top of me with no warning (I quit doing him incidentally). I am a very gentle person, very patient, never show my frustration so the horse will feel comfortable, but I have not found a cure. Keep working with her, hang in there, and I'm sorry for the pain she suffered that first time, shame on him!

You know, now that you mention it, it is pretty consistently the drafty of the draft crosses who are hardest on me with this rocking back and forth nonsense. I actually put it down to me being too short for some of them. I do find there is a sweet spot that for some horses is higher than others. They seem to feel insecure if the leg it too low. Not many of them but then again, I avoid the big guys as much as I can. If I'm working on a heavy draft cross, you can assume their owner is above average.

If this horse was in my area, I'd recommend the owner send it off for training. We have a few in our area who are excellent trainers but one in particular who would have this mare minding her p's and q's in no time while still leaving her confidence in tact. The problem is usually the human ego that wants to believe they are making no mistakes. I talked to a barn owner about this earlier this week. We'd both had experiences with horses of our own where we recognized that while we were good with many, many horses, we were falling just a bit short with one and needed someone fairly different from ourselves to come in and do some ground work with them. In my case, a gal who I think is too extreme with most things was the answer. She handled one of my ponies for two days and I watched this too cute to pay attention to humans pony finally notice there was a handler on the end of his lead and unlike others, she wasn't going to accept his half hearted efforts and go away. Sometimes you just have to conclude, what you've been doing isn't working so like it or not, you're failing the horse.

Over the years I've found I buy into the "abused" history of animals less and less. If they had one bad experience and 500 good ones, time to stop being treated like a baby and expect them to step up to the plate. If this mare was sold with no history attached to her, I'd wager she'd be a jerk with some owners and a perfect angel with others, depending on their reaction to her first infraction.

Cheri

[horse_n_hoof]

I have four draft clients, two Clydesdales, one Percheron, one Clyde/TB mix. Not a single one has been abused ever, but every single one has this exact problem in the front. It seems to be the position of the front legs during shoeing, so I've made a new hoof cradle that is VERY low to the ground and I tie a very soft rope around the pastern to gently hold the foot up if the cradle doesn't work. This has worked wonders. It's not quite as easy to get the shoe on this way, but it works, the horse is calmer, and we all go home happy. I've had no troubles in the rear doing shoes the commom way, so I think everyone else is right about position bothering these heavy ones. Excellent that you are working yours to be calmer at the sound of hammers, it's a wonderful quality in an owner, I wish all of my clients were as great.