Hooking toe of rear shoe on heel of front at the trot

[wpenfold]

Hi, I have a 9 yr old TB/paint, 16.2 with serious downhill conformation and a huge overstep. I do mostly trail riding and hunter paces. Trying to keep shoes on him is a nightmare, but this is a new one. Despite leaving almost no heel on the front shoes, he is managing at the trot to hook the toe of his hind foot on the heel of his front shoe during the suspension phase. This results in nearly going down on his nose...and me over his head...and after several entertaining repetitions, the front shoe comes off. I have overreach boots on him, and they cover his heel, but do not come all the way to the ground. I tried bell boots that came all the way to the ground, but they rub sores on his pasterns. What can I do shoeing-wise to help minimize this problem? And do you have a suggestion on some brand or type of overreach boots that might help?

[Gary Hill]

I have always had success with squaretoes or crossfire shoes behind. Good Luck!

[wpenfold]

What is a crossfire shoe?

[Gary Hill]

They call it a preventer nowdays, but it has an exaggerated breakover build into the medial toe so the shoe doesn't fit to the perimeter. It will help from grabbing the heels of the opposite front limb when a horse breaks gait and crossfires. Hope this helps?

[Jay Mickle]

Originally Posted by Gary Hill

It will help from grabbing the heels of the opposite front limb when a horse breaks gait and crossfires. Hope this helps?

Seems impossible for your horse to grab the opposite shoe in the suspension phase of the trot ( a 2 beat gait in which diagonal legs move in unison). I too have a 16.2 downhill TB with a shoe pulling propensity exacerbated by athletic, acrobatic field antics. To keep him from going to knees and nose while trotting I keep his hind end engaged in a frame. In the field I hope for the best but expect that he will pull a shoe at the most inopportune time.
Shoeing wise I have the most success keeping breakover back on the fronts and setting the hinds back.My horse has some hoof deviation that prevents me from fitting him tight. If your horse has good hoof conformation than fitting him tight and more frequent shoeing might be a solution.

[Rick Talbert]

sometimes squaring the hind shoes and 45ing the toe on the hinds may help, but I have used different ideas also, including wedging the hind hooves or heel extensions, I had one however that did this and I ended up pencilling the heels on the front, shoeing with a tight heel fit and grinding down the thickness of the last cm or so of heel on the front shoe (it was a unilateral problem on this particular horse), it just seemed like the thing to do (probably out of frustration on my part) but that horse has not lost that shoe again since I have been shoeing him like that. But I really think when it comes to this sort of thing there is no cookie cutter answer as there are so many variables to consider and each horse moves differently.

[Gary Hill]

Originally Posted by Jay Mickle

Seems impossible for your horse to grab the opposite shoe in the suspension phase of the trot ( a 2 beat gait in which diagonal legs move in unison). I too have a 16.2 downhill TB with a shoe pulling propensity exacerbated by athletic, acrobatic field antics. To keep him from going to knees and nose while trotting I keep his hind end engaged in a frame. In the field I hope for the best but expect that he will pull a shoe at the most inopportune time.
Shoeing wise I have the most success keeping breakover back on the fronts and setting the hinds back.My horse has some hoof deviation that prevents me from fitting him tight. If your horse has good hoof conformation than fitting him tight and more frequent shoeing might be a solution.

Every been around Standard breds? The Blacksmiths that shoe them are wizards!

[Jay Mickle]

Originally Posted by Gary Hill

Every been around Standard breds? The Blacksmiths that shoe them are wizards!

No doubt, but this is a TB/Paint that trots not paces.

[Gary Hill]

Horses do crossfire sorry if you haven't seen one? Standard breds can either trot or pace. I see barrel horses do it all the time, they get there leads mixed up and , well it happens.

[Jack Evers]

My last ditch solution is post 12

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/sho...=spooned+heels

[Just passin through~]

Originally Posted by wpenfold

Hi, I have a 9 yr old TB/paint, 16.2 with serious downhill conformation and a huge overstep. I do mostly trail riding and hunter paces. Trying to keep shoes on him is a nightmare, but this is a new one. Despite leaving almost no heel on the front shoes, he is managing at the trot to hook the toe of his hind foot on the heel of his front shoe during the suspension phase. This results in nearly going down on his nose...and me over his head...and after several entertaining repetitions, the front shoe comes off. I have overreach boots on him, and they cover his heel, but do not come all the way to the ground. I tried bell boots that came all the way to the ground, but they rub sores on his pasterns. What can I do shoeing-wise to help minimize this problem? And do you have a suggestion on some brand or type of overreach boots that might help?

First off,horses that have big strides need to be collected,at the walk and trot.
if you raise the heels of the horse to speed up the front end,and the shoe is o short,the horse rocks back with his foot,before it leaves the ground and it gets grabbed with the hind.You would have to know what the angles are and the length of each toe on every foot or people are just guessing..........

[wpenfold]

Thanks for the good ideas! We did try the spooned heels last year, but my farrier doesn't like to use them because he is concerned that if the shoe twists, it might damage the sole, but I'm thinking it might be worth the risk.

Someone sent me the attached picture of a bevelled hind shoe, which looks like a great idea! At least it might stop the shoe from hooking on the heel of the front.

He is (Lightfoot that is), hooking the front shoe on the same side, not the diagonal. The timing is similar to forging--which he does nearly 100% of the time, but the breakover of the front is a little delayed and instead of catching the toe of the front shoe, he catches the heel. It happens at a long trot...and he has a very long trot...which is a gait we do a lot on hunter paces. Hunter paces, if you are not familiar with them, involve riding 10 to 15 miles and over fences, and riding collected for that period of time would probably take the fun out of it for he and I both.

Any suggestions on angle, type of shoe or whatever to get him to breakover more quickly in front?

[Rick Burten]

Originally Posted by wpenfold

We did try the spooned heels last year, but my farrier doesn't like to use them because he is concerned that if the shoe twists, it might damage the sole, but I'm thinking it might be worth the risk.

Side clip the shoes.

He is (Lightfoot that is), hooking the front shoe on the same side, not the diagonal.

What is his front hoof conformation on that side?

The timing is similar to forging--which he does nearly 100% of the time,

Is his top line longer than his bottom line or vise versa?

Any suggestions on angle, type of shoe or whatever to get him to breakover more quickly in front?

How about posting some conformation photos?

[Clint Burrell]

OP,
As Rick said, conformation photos as well as pics of the feet. I have had to (on rare occasion) lower the heels to get clearance. This will also lengthen the stride,"opening" him up a bit. This is usually on a horse that has his heels "jacked up" because of over reaching concerns. On the same note, squaring the hinds and moving the rear shoes back for "clearance" also speeds the breakover. Depending on the footing, a wide web shoe can also be of benefit, giving flotation and letting the foot get out of the ground quicker/easier.(I'm guessing this is same as reducing GRF?) Quote from Rick B. "It just depends"

Clint