Coffin Bone growth plate(s)?

[Rick Burten]

Interesting bone. Thanks Kim. While I have seen many p-3's from foals who died sometime post partum, I've never before seen one from a "pre-born".

Rick

[DeniseMc]

put that up as a tickle to the BUA. I was told many moons ago by a variety of professional BUAers that all babies are born with perfect coffin bones and it is humans that mess up feet.

Ok, I'm game to play Devil's Advocate. One coffin bone from one stillborn. Why was the foal stillborn? Was it too malformed from poor or unbalanced nutrition of the mare? Was it at full term? Was it mal-positioned in the mare? Was the navicular of proportionate size--"teeny" in relation to what? And one other side to the coin: If this foal had lived, who's to say that the asymmetry wasn't "perfect" for this foal? Some BUA's do teach about natural asymmetry (to recognize it and not "correct" it), but it's believed to occur due to forces of weightbearing and locomotion. It would be interesting to see thousands and thousands of coffin bones from neonatal or still born foals, not just one.
Denise Mclain

[calshoer]

I would not call that malformed. I would just call it immature.
As well Dr Bowker got to get a few still born or neonate feet and he found that in those all 4 coffin bones were identical font and hind. and that at a very young age(a couple weeks) they are beginning to show changes in shape ,probably in response to weight bearing. I once got to see 4 fresh bones (at the university) from a still born that were identical . You could not tell left from right nor front from hind.

I also have a scanned page from some book (not referenced, so I am looking for it) in one of my Power Points that I inherited from the previous college farrier science instructor here that says that P3 has a proximal physis that closes before birth. If you look closely at the pre born bone there is indeed a faint line across the dorsal surface a fraction of an inch below the articular surface......perhaps ohat is it?

[Ronald Aalders]

Originally Posted by dpoupard

Hi Kim
Looking at the shape can you confirm this is a hind P3, great pictures and with this insight I wonder why we spend our lives trying to make a foot symmetrical ??? Just a thought

I'd be very careful not to rely too much on the shape of this particular coffin bone. For one because I have no idea how drying out has influenced its overall shape.


Ronald Aalders

[irishcas]

Originally Posted by Ronald Aalders

I'd be very careful not to rely too much on the shape of this particular coffin bone. For one because I have no idea how drying out has influenced its overall shape.


Ronald Aalders

I don't know if I would attribute it's shape to drying out and as you can see if you look closely, the foot was still decomposing. I pulled it out of the ground too soon. It was still moist from the earth.

[DavidinGA]

Patty,Kim, Denise,

I grew up on a breeding farm so I have had the opportunity to see (roughly) several hundred foals born. What we always did was to bring the mare in near time for delivery, watch her till she foaled, give baby initial medical care and turn them back out. They were back in the field within 24 hrs of birth.

Almost every baby I've seen born came out with identical feet ( to the naked eye) and when brought back to the barn at 1 month intervals until weening, their feet would be less and less alike. By the time the foals were ready for weening they would have distinctly different fronts and hinds.

To me that says that it doesn't matter what the coffin bone looks like at birth ( except in cases of extreme deformity) because it's going to be reshaped by use to fit the way it should according to how the foot is used. It is interesting to see a prenatal coffin bone though, it would be even more educational if some one had some coffin bones from say a 1 month old or 3 month old to compare it too. I bet the one month old you'd see differences and the 3 month old you'd be able to tell fronts and hinds.

I hope all that makes sense.
David