Anatomy for Horseshoers?

[George Geist]

I'm coming to realize my understanding of anatomy far surpasses those "schooled" fella's I run into out in the field and sadly some here on this board. NOTE: Some not all.

Oh and btw, my DVD will be for sale May 1st, email me and I'll give you a 10% discount. Lots of anatomy and theory, maybe you'll learn something new! LOL

:rolleyes:

Ok Kimmy,
Here ya go. I'll not disagree that your knowledge of anatomy surpasses many horseshoers. Question is to what end? This trade always has had, at least for as long as I've been around anyway more than it's share of vet wannabees.
They tend to be obsessed with this subject.

Whenever someone asks advice on this forum about what school (if any) to attend don't we always have somebody jump in within the first 3 to 5 posts advising them to go to a place heavy on anatomy study? For what?

Fact of the matter is beginners need to be learning to do the job. Developing an eye, learning proficiency with tools, hand eye coordination, etc. etc. In 29 years nobody has ever yet paid me to take a foot apart, name parts, or perform surgery on anything alive or dead. I find that obsession unnecessary and irrelevant at best and useless at worst.

Now Kimmy I know you get somewhat aroused by this stuff and are pretty high off of a Mitch Taylor clinic so as much as I hate to bust your bubble this is the way it is. If people want to become authorities on this stuff they have their whole lives to do so. At the introductory level of training a beginner to do the job I contend there is no time to waste on it.
George

[irishcas]

Ok Kimmy,
Here ya go. I'll not disagree that your knowledge of anatomy surpasses many horseshoers. Question is to what end? This trade always has had, at least for as long as I've been around anyway more than it's share of vet wannabees.
They tend to be obsessed with this subject.

Whenever someone asks advice on this forum about what school (if any) to attend don't we always have somebody jump in within the first 3 to 5 posts advising them to go to a place heavy on anatomy study? For what?

Fact of the matter is beginners need to be learning to do the job. Developing an eye, learning proficiency with tools, hand eye coordination, etc. etc. In 29 years nobody has ever yet paid me to take a foot apart, name parts, or perform surgery on anything alive or dead. I find that obsession unnecessary and irrelevant at best and useless at worst.

Now Kimmy I know you get somewhat aroused by this stuff and are pretty high off of a Mitch Taylor clinic so as much as I hate to bust your bubble this is the way it is. If people want to become authorities on this stuff they have their whole lives to do so. At the introductory level of training a beginner to do the job I contend there is no time to waste on it.
George

How can you do your job to the best of your ability if you do NOT understand what is happening within the internal structures of the limb. Even more how can you assess what needs to be done if you don't understand what is ATTACHED to the limb?

We aren't working on a Cuckoo Clock ;) We are working on a living, breathing machine. Everything is everything else.

Thinking that it's all about the shoe is unhealthy for the horse. Whole Horse is how this should work.

We as professionals have a great responsibility to the Owner and more importantly to the horse.

My education shouldn't just be on the capsule, but on Diet, Saddle Fit, Movement, Gait Analysis, Muscles/Ligaments/Tendons BONES.

I have a responsibility to the horse to be as much of an advocate as I can be. I am in this for different reasons maybe? I don't know?

My obsession with anatomy and "how things work" happened long before Mitch Taylor and even way longer than before I started working on feet.

It's how I tick, I am not happy to be mediocre or to just do it cuz we are supposed to. I want to know the ins, the outs, the hows, the whys.

So to that end, I will constantly push myself and anyone that will talk to me in the pursuit of this.

Being a blacksmith is not what hoofcare is about to me. If you all wanna play in the fire fine, make gates and ornaments, leave the living breathing, want to be healthy animal out of it.

I guess this feeds right into your whole licensing torch. If all people who touched horses feet had to be licensed like a VET than maybe things would be different? I dunno?

But you all should be concerned about it and I find it somewhat sad that so many aren't.

You will discuss things with me at least, Jaye does and I've learned a lot from him. Bob Pethick intrigues me, and at least he calls a spade a spade ;)
As I said, I could agree with some of what Patty writes but she is a bitter pill, so mostly just never read her stuff.

Yet.....Not much from anyone else.

I can never get any good conversations going without everyone getting all defensive. Without everyone saying put shoes on and that is the only answer :(

So George, Anatomy is critical to what we do. We are farriers, hoofcare professionals, trimmers, whatever and if you don't know whats inside, in detail, then you shouldn't be slapping on shoes. Because that is what it becomes without the knowledge.

You all despise the barefooters, shoot I do too with some of them, but they have most of you beat on anatomy, HANDS DOWN. Not all of you, but a lot of you.

Not a fun thing to face. They wouldn't be tramping around in your backyard if you all hadn't dropped the ball.

Wheh, off my soapbox, thanks for starting an interesting thread.



Hugs.

[calshoer]

Fact of the matter is beginners need to be learning to do the job. Developing an eye, learning proficiency with tools, hand eye coordination, etc. etc. In 29 years nobody has ever yet paid me to take a foot apart, name parts, or perform surgery on anything alive or dead. I find that obsession unnecessary and irrelevant at best and useless at worst.Drum roll...and smelling salts......I agree with Kim on this one.

Beginners better darn well know functional anatomy as as an integral part of the job.At least a thorough knowledge of the function of all the components in the distal limb as well as how foot issues directly affect the upper body.
No one IMO has any business trimming or shoeing until they understand those things.

[George Geist]

How can you do your job to the best of your ability if you do NOT understand what is happening within the internal structures of the limb. Even more how can you assess what needs to be done if you don't understand what is ATTACHED to the limb? Fair enough, tell me then if a horse develops some kind of issue with an annular ligament or navicular cruciate just what in the world is any horseshoer or trimmer ever going to do about it?

We aren't working on a Cuckoo Clock We are working on a living, breathing machine. Everything is everything else. On this point we agree. I often warn guys about getting too mechanical. I'll disagree with you calling it a "machine"


My education shouldn't just be on the capsule, but on Diet, Saddle Fit, Movement, Gait Analysis, Muscles/Ligaments/Tendons BONES. BS. Is not your job or problem. Leave that diet excrement to BTBR


I guess this feeds right into your whole licensing torch. If all people who touched horses feet had to be licensed like a VET than maybe things would be different? I dunno?
Hadn't really thought of it that way but is an interesting assessment. I do think that non vets playing vet is the stuff vet practice acts are made of.

But you all should be concerned about it and I find it somewhat sad that so many aren't.
Actually I've confronted people who were instructors about this very thing. You want to know what I was told? I was told that for a trade that is 100% hands on to have classroom instruction it's really the only thing to talk about. Nuther words is just filler.:eek:

You will discuss things with me at least, Jaye does and I've learned a lot from him. Bob Pethick intrigues me, and at least he calls a spade a spade Thanks for the compliment of including me with such esteemed company:)

As I said, I could agree with some of what Patty writes but she is a bitter pill, so mostly just never read her stuff.
Also a good policy:rolleyes:

So George, Anatomy is critical to what we do. We are farriers, hoofcare professionals, trimmers, whatever and if you don't know whats inside, in detail, then you shouldn't be slapping on shoes. Because that is what it becomes without the knowledge. Actually I once dated a girl who graduated a well known horseshoeing school. She couldn't get one trimmed to save her life. Knew her anatomy though. Best I ever saw. Ran rings around me with it. Couldn't get the job done though. How essential was it? To me that and 25 cents gets you a cup of coffee down town. Knowledge with no ability is worthless. We're paid for results.

You all despise the barefooters, shoot I do too with some of them, but they have most of you beat on anatomy, HANDS DOWN. Not all of you, but a lot of you. Agreed. Matter of fact I notice barefooters are more obsessed than anybody else. Makes up for their lack of ability.

Not a fun thing to face. They wouldn't be tramping around in your backyard if you all hadn't dropped the ball. None in my backyard. Matter of fact I don't know anybody that's ever lost work to one.


Wheh, off my soapbox, thanks for starting an interesting thread.

It's been simmering for a long time. Come on Bill Adams and the rest of you. I know a few of you want to fire away at this so here's your chance guys come one come all.:)
George

[John Emsley]

My education shouldn't just be on the capsule, but on Diet, Saddle Fit, Movement, Gait Analysis, Muscles/Ligaments/Tendons BONES.

Why stop there? Have you ever ridden a real dressage horse, a can chaser, a reining horse, a smooth hunter over fences, a driving, super, athletic, open jumper, a trotter or pacer, an endurance horse, usually an Arab and many more disciplines as well as the various breeds with their individual gaits and conformation. To pick out one area of the equine equation and claim that's the key might suit your agenda of holding it up as a candle to light yourself with, but you're impressing no one, but yourself.:cool: It's a lifelong study that we're all involved in, and those that point fingers about deficiency are usually showing their insecurity. I intend to take the advice from your signature.
John

[Mike Ferrara]

Didn't we have this conversation fairly recently?

Anyway, it helps to know some basic anatomy but most farriery is by eye and done with our hands. I don't think you need to be a "vet of the lower limb". "Most" farriers probably haven't even studied the prereqs needed to go much further into anatomy than a layman's level. Some farriers might need more than others because of the nature of their work...working in a clinic full time for instance but the rest of us usually aren't working with radiographs or vet assistance and it's a matter of visualizing what's needed and building it.

Though...you probably have to go on and on about anatomy to make trimming a few pasture taters sound exciting. LOL

[irishcas]

snip..but most farriery is by eye and done with our hands. I don't think you need to be a "vet of the lower limb". "

Well shoot, then I guess you don't ever need xrays and they are a waste of time.

Of course skill comes into it, but you can't be skilled if you don't know in-depth what you are working on.

[calshoer]

Anyway, it helps to know some basic anatomy but most farriery is by eye and done with our hands. I don't think you need to be a "vet of the lower limb"Although the actuial technical parts are done with e eyes and hands, I disagree with the veterinary part.
Farriery is so close to veterinary medicine, (but usually done in the absence of a vet) that farriers SHOULD indeed know at least as much as any veterinarian about distal limb anatomy and function and potential lameness issues. EVERY trim and shoeing is a veterinaary treatment of sorts , good or bad.
A farrier with a lack of that anatomical understanding can over the long term end up causing just as much lameness as he he or she treats.

[BS-Horseshoeing]

Kim, I don't believe that BUA are getting a hold in hoof care because horseshoers/farriers are not educated or doing a bad job, in some cases this could be true. But, I would say it's more a lack of educated owners. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying owners are dum b, but a lot of horse owners now a days don't have a clue what they are getting into when they buy a horse. They do a lot of things wrong and end up screwing the horse up with out even knowing it, blame the people around them, then start educating themselves and looking for help, and low and behold in steps a trimmer and saves the day with big words and belittling talk of farriers and vets. Doing common sense work and giving common sense advice all packaged up to make them look like heros and the farriers look like zeros. Most of what's wrong with horses falls on the owners and vets and farriers get the blame.

I agree that anatomy is important and we all need to learn it. All the other stuff you listed is someone else's domain. Having some of that knowledge is ok, but I'm not into being a short order equine provider. There's sadlle fit and nutrition people and vet's to do those other things. I have to many things left to learn about being a farrier and working with feet and keeping them healthy to study and perfect all those others to. If you want to go ahead, be Don Quijote and save the equine world one windmill at a time. But don't expect the rest of us to spread ourselves so thin, we like to keep things specialized enough we can do a good job at our job instead of a mediocre job at a bunch of different jobs.:eek::D

[Phil Armitage]

I can never get any good conversations going without everyone getting all defensive. Without everyone saying put shoes on and that is the only answer :(



That is not true Kim. Many on here have engaged in excellent conversations with you, sometimes you kill it and see what you can get away with. None of the farriers on this site only recommend shoes as the answer. We are all trimmers, it is part of the job. If you want respect, then be consistent in giving it. Stop with the man hater attitude. You know I like you, have had some great conversation, but their is only so much BS one can take.

Hugs and kisses. :)

[Horshure]

Sometimes the fancy words are just dressed up bull****.....

I know the following does not directly pertain to the thread but maybe to the type...or some types:D

A nice female student I have trimmed horses for. She a whiz with school has great grades straight A's...she is also a real horse lover...horse tattoos.
While attending university she also completed a chiropractic course for equines....has training in massage..also some trimming course.
Anyway a horse I work on starting hitting himself out of the blue for no obvious reason. I suggested a chiro......the local guy was out of town...so why not this young lady?
Little did I know the extent of her abilities(no disrespect) seems she is one of these horse psychic's.....Ricci...she is touching the horse and then her arm fly's up and she tells the women what the horse thinks...that it has an ulcer....needs seaweed... does an adjustment on it's back and they are ready to roll. She recently told this same women after doing the woojoo thing that the gelding wishes she wouldn't pressure him so much..he is unhappy.

Now to my spiel......this is the same young lady that could not pick up the feet of her young horse...left him that way for over a year without being done because he was difficult.. that I trimmed without problems after a little work on a long lead. I just have to wonder why the woojoo didn't work on her own horse??? She never told me what the horse thought of her.

Andy

[Mike Ferrara]

Well shoot, then I guess you don't ever need xrays and they are a waste of time.

They're not always a wast of time but there's a reason that vets have x-ray equipment and farriers don't...well some vets anyway.

Of course skill comes into it, but you can't be skilled if you don't know in-depth what you are working on.

In depth? Just how much biology, chemestry ect have you had?

[Mike Ferrara]

Although the actuial technical parts are done with e eyes and hands, I disagree with the veterinary part.
Farriery is so close to veterinary medicine, (but usually done in the absence of a vet) that farriers SHOULD indeed know at least as much as any veterinarian about distal limb anatomy and function and potential lameness issues. EVERY trim and shoeing is a veterinaary treatment of sorts , good or bad.

Where did you get your PHD?

A trim or shoeing is NOT a veterinary treatment. LOL, those "wild" horses trim themselves.


A farrier with a lack of that anatomical understanding can over the long term end up causing just as much lameness as he he or she treats.

You use a ruler and a marker to lay out your trim and shoe placement. A PHD, this does not require.

Again with the lameness. Most farriery doesn't have anything to do with treating lameness. As a general rule, a vet should be called when a horse is lame.

[Mike Ferrara]

Kim, I don't believe that BUA are getting a hold in hoof care because horseshoers/farriers are not educated or doing a bad job, in some cases this could be true. But, I would say it's more a lack of educated owners. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying owners are dum b, but a lot of horse owners now a days don't have a clue what they are getting into when they buy a horse. They do a lot of things wrong and end up screwing the horse up with out even knowing it, blame the people around them, then start educating themselves and looking for help, and low and behold in steps a trimmer and saves the day with big words and belittling talk of farriers and vets. Doing common sense work and giving common sense advice all packaged up to make them look like heros and the farriers look like zeros. Most of what's wrong with horses falls on the owners and vets and farriers get the blame.



Where is the BUA getting a hold? I don't see it. Maybe with a few backyard folks who like being told they don't ever need shoes because they don't want to pay for them?

[Phil Armitage]

Sometimes the fancy words are just dressed up bull****.....

I know the following does not directly pertain to the thread but maybe to the type...or some types:D

A nice female student I have trimmed horses for. She a whiz with school has great grades straight A's...she is also a real horse lover...horse tattoos.
While attending university she also completed a chiropractic course for equines....has training in massage..also some trimming course.
Anyway a horse I work on starting hitting himself out of the blue for no obvious reason. I suggested a chiro......the local guy was out of town...so why not this young lady?
Little did I know the extent of her abilities(no disrespect) seems she is one of these horse psychic's.....Ricci...she is touching the horse and then her arm fly's up and she tells the women what the horse thinks...that it has an ulcer....needs seaweed... does an adjustment on it's back and they are ready to roll. She recently told this same women after doing the woojoo thing that the gelding wishes she wouldn't pressure him so much..he is unhappy.

Now to my spiel......this is the same young lady that could not pick up the feet of her young horse...left him that way for over a year without being done because he was difficult.. that I trimmed without problems after a little work on a long lead. I just have to wonder why the woojoo didn't work on her own horse??? She never told me what the horse thought of her.

Andy

Hey Andy, don't you just love it, you think you helped the horse owner and little did you know how it would turn out. Just about spilled my coffee when I got to the part "she was touching the horse then her arm flys up............ " :D

[irishcas]

I agree that anatomy is important and we all need to learn it. All the other stuff you listed is someone else's domain. Having some of that knowledge is ok, but I'm not into being a short order equine provider. There's sadlle fit and nutrition people and vet's to do those other things. I have to many things left to learn about being a farrier and working with feet and keeping them healthy to study and perfect all those others to. If you want to go ahead, be Don Quijote and save the equine world one windmill at a time. But don't expect the rest of us to spread ourselves so thin, we like to keep things specialized enough we can do a good job at our job instead of a mediocre job at a bunch of different jobs.:eek::D

Hey Ben:

I agree with a lot of what you say. I want to clarify something. I am not a Nutritionist - I have a basic grasp of it and it's an overwhelming topic I don't want to delve deeper into. I want someone to do it for me :) I do know that a low NSC hay is better for horses, less sugar in the diet and that Chromium/Magnesium helps IR horses. I don't walk up to a horse owner, and tell them what they need to feed their horse. What I do is give them a handout that has www.safergrass.org and a few other books/links that I found helpful.

I am not a Saddle Fitter - but I have a basic grasp of what bad and good saddle fitting does to the muscles on a horse. I have recognized when there is atrophy or pain from a saddle. I have a few professionals in my area that I will recommend to the horse owner. If they are willing to hear it.

I am not an Equine Dentist - but I have a basic grasp of the Paradigm that I follow. I can recognize, sometimes, dental issues and I'm also aware of how that can affect a horses soundness.

I am not Vet, but I can recognize a rotated CB orientation and/or a sinker. I don't make that diagnosis, but I might suggest they have the vet out to do xrays.

I'm not a Gastro Intestinal Specialist - but I can recognize a horse with Ulcer like symptoms and I might suggest to the owner "If this were my horse, I might talk to the vet about ulcers"

I am not a Chiro, Massage or Body worker - but I can recognize problem areas. I can recognize a horse standing in pain that has nothing to do with its feet. I do the same here as I do with the other issues, provide a list of professionals I trust.

All of these items play into whole horse health and hoof soundness. This I think Ben, is one of the big differences with the good trimmers that are out there and some of the farriers.

In the beginning I did bad mouth the farriers, I was wrong I should have kept my mouth shut, but I was new to this and I had the "Religion" can I hear an AMEN SISTER. I'm sorry and apologize to the Farrier World, can you forgive me? ;)

If I don't like something I see that the previous hoofcare professional did, I just say when asked. "I don't know what was going on, but I'm here to work on the horse today and lets just address what I have in front of me."

Vets, well I just won't go there in this thread. I p iss people off enough as it is and this is an interesting conversation with the right people.

So IMO, I feel should be more aware of all these issues, we should build up a team of professionals we trust that we can send our clients to, when we recognize "issues". I can't make my clients "do" anything, I can only provide my experiences. I have learned how to feel out the owner, suggest what I think they are willing to hear.

I go by the rule "Never answer an unasked question" and once I started doing that things were much easier for me.

[George Geist]

Where did you get your PHD?

A trim or shoeing is NOT a veterinary treatment. LOL, those "wild" horses trim themselves.


You use a ruler and a marker to lay out your trim and shoe placement. A PHD, this does not require.

Again with the lameness. Most farriery doesn't have anything to do with treating lameness. As a general rule, a vet should be called when a horse is lame.

Where is the BUA getting a hold? I don't see it. Maybe with a few backyard folks who like being told they don't ever need shoes because they don't want to pay for them?
LMYAO! Again I find myself agreeing with Mike F:)

I often wish that the vet wannabees among us would just go to school and become vets. Quit trying to make the trade into something it's not:rolleyes:
George

[George Geist]

I go by the rule "Never answer an unasked question" and once I started doing that things were much easier for me.
Here's an asked question for you then. At this point in your learning do you think you can get the job done better by theory, diet nonsense, and memorizing contents of cadaver legs? or by practicing proper clinching?
George

[George Geist]

No one IMO has any business trimming or shoeing until they understand those things.
And some will say anybody who can't make shoes has no business working for the public. Others will say anybody uncertified shouldn't be out there.

Reality is none of us have any say over who can or cannot work at the trade so that's a non issue. I find it interesting that many out there put more importance on what someone can memorize than with what they can do.
George

[irishcas]

Here's an asked question for you then. At this point in your learning do you think you can get the job done better by theory, diet nonsense, and memorizing contents of cadaver legs? or by practicing proper clinching?
George

George:

What is your hangup with diet? Well snort, you've told me where you eat, so I know it's not important for you, so therefore not the animals in our care. So should we agree to disagree :)

What do you mean memorize? Do you go to a doctor? Is he getting the job done well because he has years of practice in the field or because he memorized anatomy to pass tests in school?

It isn't all or nothing!

It's all of the above. As you learn one thing, add it to your toolbox and then add the next.

You know da mn well I'm frustrated with the clinching :D I can do it, what p isses me off is I can't do it perfectly or pretty like I see in some of the Everyday Shoeing pix.

I need more hands on experience, but I'm not going to throw away my anatomy knowledge for the sake of clinching knowledge.

Silly silly argument.

I believe the wording is... "well rounded education" Hulllooooo

[smitty88]

You never no you might have the clinching right by Tuesday:eek::eek:

[George Geist]

George:

What do you mean memorize? Do you go to a doctor? Is he getting the job done well because he has years of practice in the field or because he memorized anatomy to pass tests in school? Actually no. I try to keep away from doctors. In my misspent youth some things I did brought me under the care of orthopaedists. Never do I remember any of them pontificating on issues of cardiology, psychiatry, or any other things outside their specialty. Nor should we.

It isn't all or nothing!
Well worth remembering. The trade is an art and a science. Some folks lean more toward one direction or the other. Some are quite radical in the science end to the exclusion of all else. Seems those folks and those who like to forge inevitably won't mix well.


You know da mn well I'm frustrated with the clinching :D I can do it, what p isses me off is I can't do it perfectly or pretty like I see in some of the Everyday Shoeing pix.
Come on Kimmy it's easy. Squeeze and lift remember?

I need more hands on experience, but I'm not going to throw away my anatomy knowledge for the sake of clinching knowledge.

Silly silly argument.
As are most of the arguments on these boards lol:)
George

[irishcas]

You never no you might have the clinching right by Tuesday:eek::eek:

Yup you never know Smitty ;)

Careful with all that eeeking, your eyes might pop out of your head :eek:

George, I know squeeze and lift, you showed me, it wasn't your lack of clinching skill, it is just that practice makes perfect.

Go forth and conquer and all that jazz...

[smitty88]

Yup you never know Smitty ;)

Careful with all that eeeking, your eyes might pop out of your head :eek:

George, I know squeeze and lift, you showed me, it wasn't your lack of clinching skill, it is just that practice makes perfect.

Go forth and conquer and all that jazz...

They might come tuesday when we see your pics:eek:

[Mike Ferrara]

What do you mean memorize? Do you go to a doctor? Is he getting the job done well because he has years of practice in the field or because he memorized anatomy to pass tests in school?

I think you're onto the point that George is trying to make. Speaking for myself, my study of anatomy goes FAR beyond anything that I've ever had to use in day to day work. I carry reference material in the truck just in case I do need to look something up but it's rarely used. You lose what you don't use and much of what I know/have known doesn't stick because it isn't regularly used.

I have more reference material at home which is used more in online converstaions or in evaluating other stuff I read than in any real shoeing.

It isn't all or nothing!

It's all of the above. As you learn one thing, add it to your toolbox and then add the next.

You know da mn well I'm frustrated with the clinching :D I can do it, what p isses me off is I can't do it perfectly or pretty like I see in some of the Everyday Shoeing pix.

I need more hands on experience, but I'm not going to throw away my anatomy knowledge for the sake of clinching knowledge.

Silly silly argument.

I believe the wording is... "well rounded education" Hulllooooo

I think Butler puts in an appropriate context. Have you read a good standard Farrier text (or two or three) like Butler.

Dispite the negative tone often given to the term "traditional farriery" these days, the reason it's traditional is because it has worked so well for so long.

I'm afraid that some of us are starting out handicaped by the misconception that we know something that somehow went undiscovered for the last umpteen centuries that horses have been in use. I'd submit that the problem isn't as much what hasn't been learned yet but rather what's been forgotten.

[Bill Adams]

Well George,
You gota know Anatomy.
Today I did a big Appendix QH that gets ridden allot in arena and some trail and lives in twenty acres of soft wet pasture. Some hills and mud.
This horse is dragging it's hinds in the deep arena and wearing off its dorsal toe (anatomical terminology).
The foot has the signs of a low or neg palmer angle. I'm glad I've learned to notice this and need to know more. I bet there are BUAs out there who may know a bit more about Anatomy than I do however..............
With the time I've wasted not learning anatomy I have been able to learn to build a shoe that has a very flat toe to protect the front of the foot but allow easy breakover and create a wedged ground surface. The way the foot was trimmed provided strong heels and large frog to support the digital cushion and P3, keeping it to a preferred angle within the hoof capsule.
The skill learned under the horse also let me affix those shoes solidly to his thin waterlogged walls in such a way as to keep them on, protecting his thin soles, allowing the rider to get on and go after I'm done and ride him several hours a day, every day.
This client is also very fastidious about the appearance of her horse, so the straight lines of evenly square, flush with the wall, smother to the touch clinches (hammered only) make the job look nice too.

[Bill Adams]

In the beginning I did bad mouth the farriers, I was wrong I should have kept my mouth shut, but I was new to this and I had the "Religion" can I hear an AMEN SISTER. I'm sorry and apologize to the Farrier World, can you forgive me? ;)
.

AMEN SISTER!
Forgiving you is easy, much easier that admitting wrong as you have. Good for you and thanks.

[calshoer]

Where did you get your PHD? Never claimed to have one.
A trim or shoeing is NOT a veterinary treatment. read veterinary treatment " OF SORTS" . In other words, it directly affects the structures of the internal foot AND the whole horse. Good or bad, depending on what is done. .
Domestic horses,who are under much more stress and strain than any feral beast, are totally at OUR mercy to do the right thing to their feet.

[calshoer]

Dispite the negative tone often given to the term "traditional farriery" these days, the reason it's traditional is because it has worked so well for so long.The phrase "worked so well" is subjective. I dont think it has worked as well as some farriers think is has.
If it worked so well, then we would not be having to eventually change the shoeing on so many performance horses as treatment for lameness.

[Horshure]

Hey Andy, don't you just love it, you think you helped the horse owner and little did you know how it would turn out. Just about spilled my coffee when I got to the part "she was touching the horse then her arm flys up............ " :D

yes I ended up recomending a psychic to some fundementalist christians:o

[Bill Adams]

this is the same young lady that could not pick up the feet of her young horse...left him that way for over a year without being done because he was difficult.. that I trimmed without problems after a little work on a long lead. I just have to wonder why the woojoo didn't work on her own horse??? She never told me what the horse thought of her.
Andy

Andy,
We have a local animal physic who's horse died with out telling her, the new horse bucked her off with out telling her he was gona.
Her web site says that she was able to find a lost cat though, she could sense it was in the barn! Abel to know that a cat went to the barn, if that isn't proof what is?
I used to do her horse but she let me go because she could sence the horse didn't like me. The horse and me are physics too because we both sensed each other's dislike.

[Ray_Knightley]

Farriers don`t want to be Vets....WHY
Barefooters wish they where something(anything) and because they are not the play at being ,vets ,farriers and horsemenshipers ..and after a few years the are gone ,like the big wind they came with.......thats here so ..:(

I work with so many vets ,they are most all stressed out and on the road for 24 hours at times ,I feels sorry for them ..they have a hard Job ..

For years we used to run around ,trying to know more than the Vets and thinking we did also ....

what i have learned is to humble myself to vets ,who have studied for years and work together ....Its easyer for me to focus on the shoes and balance and have a good Vet find out what the horse has ,as to play Vet and stab in the dark...

I have to know what the vet is telling me and understand it .......and here in germany we are lucky as the germany lauguage is very simple, and to the point when it comes to parts of any Body..

Ray Knightley.farrier germany.

[Mike Ferrara]

The phrase "worked so well" is subjective. I dont think it has worked as well as some farriers think is has.
If it worked so well, then we would not be having to eventually change the shoeing on so many performance horses as treatment for lameness.

Who is we? And why not change shoeing in the presence of lameness? Do you wear a cast when you don't have a broken leg? LOL

[calshoer]

"we" meaning the industry as a whole. I'm sorry you don't see the logic in what I said . Oh well. have a nice day. :D