Helping hooves get bigger

[dunappaloosa]

I have a yearling filly that I believe may have genetically predisposed to small hooves. Her breeding is relatively heavy QH influenced Appaloosa. She is 14.3 hands and only a year and 5 months. She has already had inflamation in her growth plates in her knees and rapid growth spurts. She is in a 5 acres turn out 24/7 with varried terrain and another yearling for added incentive to play. She is fed free choice grass hay with a small amout of a grass/alfalfa mix hay less than 20% alfalfa and a moormans mineral supplement specifically formulated for grass hay. I'm not feedng a foal feed of any kind fregularly because the vet felt it was not necessary due to her rapid growth spurts. Anyway back to the question at hand. Her Feet DO NOT seem to be growing like the rest of her. He hooves are very small and even my 12.3 hand pony mule has a foot almost as large as this filly. My other yearling appaloosa is only 13.3 and she had a bigger foot the the taller one. So what recommendation do you have to see if we can try and get her feet growing bigger if it is possible. Or am I just out of luck and we are stuck with tiny feet on a big body? She is barefooted and trimmed regularly and again on pasture with exercise.

[cynthia-jay]

stop the mineral suppliment it can play havoc or add to the rapid growth spurts you are experiancing.

Genetics determine enviromentals effect.She may or may not grow into her hooves depending on the situation.

alot of problems arise from the old saying...="killing them with kindness" and to much of a good thing as in over supplimenting an easy keeper.
best of luck to you , as always,
Jay

[dunappaloosa]

The vet told me NOT to change the mineral supplements. Because the mineral formulation is designed to be feed as a compliment with the grass hay to balance the nutrients in the grass hay. If you didn't notice, she is NOT an any type of grain or foal feed, She in ONLY on grass hay or a grass alfalfa mix with less than 20% alfalfa and She is in Open pasture with NO confinement. The minerals are free choice so she can CHOOSE NOT to eat it if she did not want to. So Where is the " KILLING with Kindness or the over supplementing?"

[Dawn Barron]

I might stop feeding the alfalfa...too much protein can also reek havic on growing horses. I had a similar problem with my phili. She is 6 now and only now are her feet growing to catch up with her bodu. I would't worrie about it too much just make sure she is trimmed properly and regularly. Healthy are healthy feet and they will be as big as the coffin bone allows and no bigger. Just because a horse has "big" feet doesn't always mean they are healthy feet. I guess what i am trying to say is make sure her foot is a working hook and the contact she gets with the grond will stumulate her feet to grow.

cheers
Dawn

[cynthia-jay]

"killing them with kindness"

You stated you may have a horse with a pre-disposed genetic make up which I have seen before and you may want to look at your total feed program and switch it to adjust to the growth spurts you are experiancing.

This type of growth spurt can cause joint damage as well =epithisitis and pre-dispose an animal to not only injuries but early arthritic conditions as well.

just as in any athlete a good early start on a balanced diet with proper exercise and training may or may not add to their talents and skills.

The Vets here advise not to over feed or suppliment horses. turn them out and let them grow the way nature intended and work with what you have.
your feed program may be lacking certain vitamin minerals and the ability to absorb them properly and utilazation of all of the above.
best of luck to you,
as always, Jay

[dunappaloosa]

I SAID genetically Predisposed to SMALL HOOVES and I'm wondering if there is any thing I can doo about the HOOVES. Her diet HAS been evaluated by a vet. She IS on 5 acres turn out 24-7.

[cynthia-jay]

By keeping excess weight and a "balanced diet" which your feed program may need to be evaluated again to include a grain ration with hay and turn out well as the possibility of a pre-disposed genetic to be big bodied and a small hoof.
You made no mention of the bone density and or muscle mass of this horse.
This horse could avoid certain problems in the future with the proper care,
Including regular farrier visits in which this horse may require corrective trimming/shoeing.
To answer your question...you may be doing more harm than good with this horse and a re-evaluation is needed at this time. You can not make the hoof grow bigger than mother nature intended it to be.
Since genetics determine and enviromentals effect which includes diet, re-evalute your feed program and I am wondering what is in your water as well as to mineral content...Therefore a free choice mineral suppliment may be adding more harm them good. Horses can blossom and overcome certain genetic defects when properly fed.

"Why are there more horses rear ends than there are horses?"

as ever,
Jay

[caballus]

Think of what a natural horse eats ... scrubby grasses with poor nutrition; shrubs, trees, weeds, bushes, cacti ... they eat dirt and each others manure; they also MOVE over a 20 - 30 mile area DAILY ... on rocks, stones, hard ground, etc. The horse's gut is not meant to be eating much else - even whole grains like corn, barley, oats ... by the time the grasses in the natural environment even think of growing seed heads the horses have already munched them to the ground. They also stand in watering holes daily and soak their hooves.

You won't be able to alter what Mother Nature has created in the terms of "small" feet but you can help strengthen and cause the hooves to widen by providing some hard ground or rocky turnout for your filly. (Just like our own feet widen the more we go barefoot without shoes) That and making sure that her hooves are trimmed so they can function properly ... no contracted heels, no long toes, center of weight where it belongs with balanced hooves. The alfalfa, even minimal, will have an affect on the growth. Just one or two flakes of alfalfa a day will put weight on a tired, underweight adult horse. I'd knock off the Alfalfa given the cir***stances that you just described for your filly. I agree with the "free-choice" minerals and I also feed a vitamin supplement for my yearlings. But they get lousy-quality, low grade grass hay - free choice - and that's pretty much it. (They also get "salads" on the weekends with whatever happens to be out of my fridge - lettuce, squash, broccoli, etc.) I do feed just a little handful of oats or "complete" pellet mixed with high fat/low carb in the evening. They are both Appaloosas ... from a PMU farm in Manitoba. My filly is 18 mos. old and stands 15.2 hh at the withers; she has wide hooves that self-trim on her "cobblestone"-like paddock by her watering tub. The colt is 17 mos. old and just barely 14 hh. He has smaller hooves but they are still wide/round in the front and he, too, self-trims. They never have had nippers or a rasp to their hooves. The filly has draft in her background and her hooves are exhibiting those genetics however, the colt is 100% Appy and does have the smaller hooves. BUT ... again, with his free-roam on embedded stones in part of his paddock his hooves are kept self-trimmed and are growing well. No issues with the growth spurts ... they both grow their hind ends then their fronts then their hinds, etc. Both sleek and shiny and in good attitude and condition. We also have a 4 month old filly here who is on nothing but the same lousy hay and a handful of oats in the pm.

Mother Nature gives us some pretty straight-forward parameters for health. The close we can get to those the better off our critters are. Us, too, for that matter! ;)

JMO -- caballus

[dunappaloosa]

You know I get the feeling some of you people are just skimming my messages.

1. She IS on turn out 24-7 Total acreage is 11 acres seperated into approximately 2 - 5 acre areas/ WITH VARRIED terrain. In New mexico that means ROCKS and hills and sand and hard pan clay. And that also means New Mexico pasture is NOT lush grass. and with this 5 year drought not much grass at all.

2. Her FEED plan HAS been RE-EVALUATED three times. EVERY single time she gets added grains and nutrients her growth plate inflamation gets WORSE. So that is the reason for going BACK to grass hay and grass mix with the Mineral supplement formulated for feeding with grass hay.

3. She Also GETS regular farrier care.

[calshoer]

It sounds like you are doing everything you can already environmentally. Since she is predosposed to small hooves the best you can do is make sure when she is trimmed that her breakover is where it belongs in relation to the end ofthe frog (a lslight rocker in the toe every time and don't remove sole in the toe area) and tespecially insure the *heels* get trimmed back to a level near the sole ,thereby getting the best frog contact possible,and keping the heel buttresses wide and uncurled. .Her eventual foot size will be limited by the eventual size of the coffin bone,which luckily is still developing. So insuring good frog contact to the ground will help develop the digital cushion and spread the bone as much as genetically possible. And I always recommend NOT cleaning the dirt out the feet, the dirt impaction actually helps the frog do it's job spreading and supporting the foot . If you are in soft sand, the sand will offer ther support as the foot loads in it, but if there is nothing there that will pack into the foot, you might even find some loamy clay dirt, moisten it pack it in there by hand or stand her in it and then let it set up. Then leave it in until it falls out or at the next trim. Patty

[Katy Watts]

Patty gave you excellent advice on the feet, but I think you can do a little better on the nutrition front.
I totally agree that this filly needs mineral supplementation. I am just north of you, in the San Luis Valley. I know a lot of our hay goes south, so perhaps your hay might have been grown here. I have a database of nearly 40 complete hay samples from this area. We are severly deficient in copper, zinc and selenium. Copper deficiency has been implicated in DOD or OCD. Do a search on google 'copper DOD OCD'. I know a lady here who had terrible problems with it in her Percheron/Arab cross babies until she started supplementing with copper.
All the hay, including grass, grown in the desert SW has much higher Calcium levels than elsewhere. I've seen straight grass here with 6:1 Ca:P. I like Mooreman products, too. I spoke with several nutritionists from Mooremans and they all agreed that their products would barely touch our copper needs. We often only have 6-7 ppm copper in grass hay. They make a lot of custom cattle supplement here, and have found that we need so much copper that it makes the mineral unpalatable and it's very difficult to get animals to eat enough of it, so they use copper bolases when they work cattle in chutes. I make my own custom minerals, and it took a couple weeks of mixing it in beet pulp and alfalfa pellets to get my horses to eat the amount necessary to address their needs. The Mooreman reps also agree that we should feed the mineral mix and blocks intended for alfalfa in our area, because it addresses the Ca:P ratio in our grass better. The Mooreman dealers here don't even stock the regular grass mineral mix. Since this filly is already in trouble, I think you will find it useful to focus on a hay analysis and getting her mineral nutrition sorted out right away. go to www.equi-analytical, and get the Trainer test. This will have all the info you need to give your nutritional consultant. Also get your brood mares on copper. Copper needs are so great the first 4 months of growth that foals are born with a supply stored in the liver.
The other thing about hay here is that it's WAY above the national average for sugar content, which is a major factor in DOD. It's rampant here. I'm testing grass hay this summer with 30% NSC, where the national average is 13%. I strongly suggest you get your hay tested for NSC, and find something that is closer to average.
Katy Watts
www.safergrass.org

[Phil Armitage]

You got some nice responses from folks taking time to help you out. It would be nice to see a little graditude instead of attitude. Maybe you would be better served if you had private counsiltation for a fee.

[dunappaloosa]

The moormans nutritional consultant told me the opposite of what they told you. :confused: They told me to keep on the grass hay and the mineral supplement for grass and grass mix. The inflamation is NOT alot and she has been x-rayed twice this year. I've had the Moormans nutritional consultant, the vet and a nutrena nutritional consultant all work on feed possibilities. The Vet is not at all worried about the small amounts of inflamation in the growth plates.

[Katy Watts]

The moormans nutritional consultant told me the opposite of what they told you. :confused: They told me to keep on the grass hay and the mineral supplement for grass and grass mix. The inflamation is NOT alot and she has been x-rayed twice this year. I've had the Moormans nutritional consultant, the vet and a nutrena nutritional consultant all work on feed possibilities. The Vet is not at all worried about the small amounts of inflamation in the growth plates.

Are you working from an analysis of the hay you are feeding? The nutritionists I have shown the database on local hays are all quite shocked at the imbalances of minerals it shows. They continue to believe the nutrient content tables of 1989 NRC, which is an extremely limited number of samples that does not account for regional differences in soil mineral levels.
When I showed the 1989 NRC Guidelines to the forage researchers at USDA, they all laughed out loud to think anyone would be so naive to think that an average of less than a dozen samples nationwide would actually give somone useful information.
Copper and zinc are extemely important to hoof growith, and are severly deficient in high pH soils which comprise most of the Southwest.
Katy