instructions

[ray steele]

Hi folks,

I just got in from my daily rounds so I thought I'd pass this on. a good and long time customer( a husband and wife) called yesterday to say that a respected equine message therepist was at the barn to work on the driving horses. The long and the short of it is that this person left shoeing instructions for me,to make changes for the comfort of the horses.
One animal is a driving pony, used in the marathons , he has a underslung heel on the left front, I have him set up with a wedged steel shoe (1/8" lift),a leather /plastic pad with a 1/4' lift built into the pad. We have grown heel with this combo since we started using it in May, growing heel yes but not what I would call sustainable heel, the type that is there but is not supported by sole ,which to me is heel in name only.
After being campaigned pretty hard someone has determined that the animal has back pain, the therapist I am told ,says it is caused by the front feet.

The customer in her phone call tells me all the credentials of this person and says that he wants some kind of bar shoes put on the left front,but could not say which kind, maybe heart bars, her husband has it all written down,and drawings from the therepist. I stopped into the barn on the way home today to have a look see and take a look at the "script". The husband explained that it was just a rough drawing to explain the type of shoe to me. From the info I got I would"guess" egg bar/heart bar. I asked what type of frog pressure the therepist wanted? Answer : don't know. Where does he want break over? answer: don't know. How heavy a shoe? answer don't know. r Just that if I have a question he is sure that I could call a farrier xyz from another state who does this all the time to give me some answers.


I understand the theory in handling underslung heels in this prescription ,that's not what this whole diatribe is about, to me it is that now I have another prescription expounder to answer to.One who did not even take off the package to see what was going on ,who then left this whole theory to someone without answers(the owners and me).Without precise instructions it is perfect to say in the future"Your farrier did not do it right",of course my question is "what is right?".
My suggestion to all, get detailed written instrctions when trying to follow someone elses theory, I say this because in my 30 years in this business I've been involved in several cases where I was called in because someone else "didn't follow instructions". It's always been the unwritten instructions that weren't followed. I've never understood how someone can say that a job is all wrong and then leave very sketchy details on how to fix it . To me it is obvious that if a horse is shod a certian way,it is because it is done the way the person who did it believed was best. If you really believe another way would be better ,and I understand and relish differences of opinions, then be precise and put your name to it. Further though, how many folks do we take shoeing instructions from?
I explained the thoughts i had to the owners and set up to come up next week to do whatever they want so long as it is written. Should make life easier, I get to play mechanic, some one else is the engineer.

[Jodi Bissell]

:mad: Doesn't that just grate your nerves?? I could sure use some advice on the verbal judo required to deal with situations like the one you mentioned. I am always game for new information, although I do prefer the type involving actual knowledge, and I certainly don't claim to know everything since the more I learn, the more questions I have. BUT - when you get someone (like you described) who doesn't spend years and years shoeing and learning and shoeing some more - attempting to tell my customers what I should do (when they have little more than a foggy little pathetic idea about what they are running off at the mouth about) well, I start to loose my sense of humor. Personally, I think if they want to talk about it, they should contact me and talk to me, the *******. Most people don't dish out the BS quite so easily when they are talking to some one who can't be so easily impressed with something less than genuine education and experiance.
I realize this sounds harsh, maybe even cocky. I don't mean for it to but I really don't have the energy to apply tact at this particular jucture in time. However, perhaps you can see why I would be asking about a professional conversation tactic that I could employ in such situations. Anyone???

Jodi

[shoesofiron]

dammit Ray... I was just getting this last nerve desensitized and you had to bring it up... didn't you.
So help me... if I get one more "request" to "take off more toe" from a Western Pleasure trainer I'm cuttin' the next horse to the goo.
I got a filly that is upright in her pasterns, has one grade 1 club, one that wants to be about a 52 and hind feet that look more like the profile of a christmas tree after only two shoeings and this blow hard of an expert says "he'll take care of it" when his shoer comes next week.
Of course, HIS shoer travels all the way from N.C. and charges a buck sixty to shoe (God love him) but ...(is this microphone on?) he's a hack... okay?
The guy over rasps the walls so they resemble a shovelnosed catfish on the dorsal wall... nice and well... deformed. The heels are usually jacked to the point they're crushed and he's obsessed with cranking joints.
Now... I've been shoeing for these people for several years... twice actually. They quit me for my "seemingly high and increasing fees" about 5 years ago.. .went through 4 other iron hangers before they came to their senses and asked me to come back no matter what I charged about a year later.
Since then, they've had several top ten finishes in the World, been killing them with a couple horses in some other circuits and suddenly... "Her hind toes are too pointy...and my trainer says you need to start taking off more toe".
Makes me want to insert the Goodyear blimp where the sun don't shine THEN inflate it.
I've seen horses from his barn and they're all virtually shod the same.
Fronts lowered on the outside, dinky aluminums and steel hinds squared with double trailers. The feet have no consistancy when it comes to lateral balance but if they get a little off well... it must be time for them to be injected again.
I was thinking.... probably the best way to handle this bully is to stop by his barn while he's riding something and tell him the bit isn't fit in the horses' mouth right.. and isn't that saddle ill-fitting?... and those reins are too heavy...
just to see how long it takes him to come up for air.....
Instructions indeed.....
"But she's got too much knee!..."

Well honey... if you'da knocked her in the head before she drew her first breath because her momma was too upright to stay sound so you made a broodmare outta her... you wouldn't have this problem now would you.....




I need a sign....

[Red Amor]

sometimes you just need to give some things/people /situations the sorbent treatment

or tell em straight up how it is and then give em the sorbent treatment :(

[Dave Purves]

I've found a decent method for dealing with "expert trainers". I was working on a horse that I had done for years. The owner had moved to a western pleasure barn complete with a built in trainer. Anyway, I'm trimming the first foot and the trainer comes over politely introduces himself and asked if I'm open for suggestions. I said sure as long as it doesn't upset me. As all wp trainers say, you need to stand this horse up. I kindley asked why? His knees are hitting his chin. What???? His knees are hitting his chin. I said this isn't a show horse so I would rather keep him sound. But thanks for the input. He said that will keep him sound and more comfortable to ride. I asked how dropping the fetlock would make the horse more comfy and how that stress on the SL would keep the horse sound? He got mad, and not so politely told me to stand the horse up. I took off my shoeing chaps, and threw them on the floor at his feet and said here ya go, you do one foot and I'll match the other to it. He said I'm not a farrier, NO KIDDING I said I am but if he is having trouble sitting a trot on this uncomfortable horse maybe I could find some time to stop by and give him a few remedial riding lessons until he gets the skill to ride this horse. He huffed away and I packed my tools. the owner said where are you going, I said I'm not touching this horse as long as he is here. In fact I'm not shoeing this horse in this barn.
Now the horse gets hauled to me and the farrier that shoes for the trainer has no problems with getting instruction.
Dave ;)

[J.H. shoeing]

Take a deep breath Scott... Don't waste a perfectly good blimp on an "EXPERT". When you get that nerve desensitized let me know so I can tell my WP people to call you. That would save me the cost of the procedure and I wouldn't have to pretend to be listening. I think we all get our fair share of "experts" that know less than nothing, seems like it comes with the territory. But it sure makes working for the real horse people a pleasure.

Jeff

[Red Amor]

I will lissen to any thing any reasonable person has to say wheather I think they know what there on about or not ,thats just plain respectfull
and if there a bit misguided Ill try to fix that up

But is is suprising the things Ive learned , and the mistakes Ive been saved from people that realy didnt know anything about what they mentioned but just saw something at that moment that I didnt theres been a few times I fobbed them of and blew it

gotta admit I dont handle pigs to well either , have to admit theres been some in me as well

happy fathers day you blokes

[Phil Armitage]

Some, not all (thank God) Horse owners fall into this trap because they do not know what to think, however they should at least know the difference between a Horse Trainer, Farrier, Vet and Equine Message therapist. They are all different trades and require different knowledge and skills. On the flip side I have clients that have more or less told a Trainer, Vet and others to stay out of the Farrier buisness that they will consult with me if they need advice on there horeses feet. When proffesionals cross the line like that they are running the risk of destroying there owne buisness and credability, so I just like to let things take there course.