"Twisted" Foot?

[OakesBrae]

Hi Folks,
I have a wonderful farrier who I am working with on my new rehab project. However, we'd both like more opinions and it seems like this board has an abundance of them.

The horse's right front foot has a low heel issue. To boot, the foot is "twisted" in front so that it looks like it's going to the right. In fact, when you pick the foot up you can see that the heel just about wants to fall right off the foot. I'm not sure if I'm describing that accurately, so bear with me - I'll try to get pictures ASAP.

The horse is a 1400 lb 17.2h TB, with arthritic hocks (particularly his left), so getting this resolved as soon as possible would be a *very good thing* so that he can balance himself out. He already does get injections in his left hock to keep him comfortable.

Unfortunately, between shoeings I cannot get a picture of the frog etc. because he wears equi...pack? I think? But you'll be able to see from the heel.

I don't *think* his bones are naturally crooked. When you see the construction of the leg it looks like at one time it *was* straight, but that a lack of farrier care has made the foot deformed.

It does remind me of the previous poster with the "Crooked Feet" post - only far worse. The heel just keeps crushing. My farrier tried rockering the toe and the heel of both of those fronts so that he was only stepping on the middle part to encourage heel growth down to the shoe. Would it be better to wedge the leg? Would the heel ever straighten out that way?

I don't want this horse to get any lamer, as he is *very* athletic and enjoys his job. He's 13.
Thanks - I will try to post pictures later tonight if I can.

[Jason Maki]

Please post the pics. Its sounds like the foot is badly sheared and going wry. Here's a brain teaser, the side with "no heel" probobly has an abundance, and has sheared proximaly to the point where the wall rolling under. The lateral toe "quarter" region is jammed and flariing as well if I am correct. On these jammed/sheared feet I will unload the medial aspect from bridge to buttress and the lateral from the midline to the bridge, leaving all of the wall in the medial "toe quarter: and lateral heel and heel quarter. Load the horse onto the foot and watch what happens! The "No heel" on the medial side will drop before your eyes, as will the lateral quarter.
Anyway, post the pics and will see what is going on.
Jason Maki CJF

[Phil Armitage]

Oaksbrae You mentioned the hocks, is this a hind foot your talking about? What job does this horse do? To simplify what Jason is saying, find the live sole plaine and keep trimming to it, this will also undo jamming and shearing. It also helps to use a bar shoe when unloading the sheared heel. If this a hind foot and the hocks are sore, it could be because the hocks have a lot of lateral movement and there may be too much traction in the hind feet, planting the hind foot when it needs to rotate with the movement of the hock, this will strain the hock and also stress the hoof.

[OakesBrae]

Okay, I'm hoping you can get to all of these:

http://client.webshots.com/album/348457906seTfiT

These I took today - please pardon the shots, it's hard to take pictures under a horse when you can't quite tell what you're getting.

The problem is actually in his right front foot. If you can see from the shot:

http://client.webshots.com/photo/348457906/348482123IBGYIi

This is a pretty angry foot.

The hock issue I believe is secondary to the foot - the hock that is sore is the left hind. His conformation (pretty straight behind) leads me to believe that at his age, arthritis isn't "abnormal", but I believe that part of the issue is the right front foot and overloading the left hind leg as a result of the imbalance in the front foot (if that makes sense). The x-ray from his left hind hock wasn't actually all that bad - a few signs of osteophytes and a little itty bitty bone spur.

The horse is a jumper, although he's not currently being jumped. He's had foot issues for years apparently, and the people who had him before me have never been able to keep him sound. According to people that I know, however, they just also didn't have consistently good farrier work done on him. The horse is talented as all get out - he jumped out of the indoor arena yesterday - but my main concern is getting him sound and comfortable.

I couldn't really get any pictures of the bottom of his hoof as he wears equipack, so, nothing to see there.

His feet are...2 weeks? I think? post shoeing. Oh - and he did tear a bit of the equipack out - so from the back you're seeing that hole in the left side - that was new today (horses!) the farrier did have it nice and even.

He's dead lame today, although that may be from jumping out of the arena and galloping like a madman yesterday, plus apparently galloping like a maniac around the pasture with his buddies today. He's not swollen anywhere, but I linimented and wrapped his legs anyway - he had to have stressed them.

Thanks for looking at him, This horse is a real sweetie and LOVES to work - I'd like to get him sound enough at least to reliably ride - he really enjoys it.

[Jason Maki]

The front foot is sheared atleast an inch on the medial aspect, and though i could not see, probobly jammed in the lateral toe quarter. I am amazed he has not popped a 1/4 crack on the left front.
The fire work looks good, nice clips, precise nailing etc. The hind fetlock looks inflamed in the suspensory region, is that a stall stock(dissipating with activity) or is he rundown somewhat? If the opposite hind is giving you a problem, fixing the big shear on the left front *MAY* alleviate sone of the trouble; it may be copensatory pain from the left front. My first attack would be on the shear.
Jason Maki CJF

[Phil Armitage]

His conformation puts alot of stress on the medial heels. I would use Myron Maclaine support pads (plastic heart bar pad) with equipack, can use them with an open shoe or a bar shoe. I preffer useing an open shoe. Your not going to fix the sheared heel with just an open shoe and equipak, not enough support to unload the heel. If you look at the picture you can see the heels of the shoe bending up with the medial heel. If your farrier needs help applying the Myron Mclaine pads and/or getting them, he can contact me by e-mail of give me a call. I met Myron at a clinic and learned how he uses them. I use them often for underun heels, sheared heels, quarter cracks, navicular, prolapsed frogs, laminitis. They work just as good as a steel heart bar, but safer because they give. I have fixed sheared heels with straight bar and equipack and this also works well if the horse cannot handle frog pressure.

[OakesBrae]

Jason, I'm confused. The major shear is on the right front, no? You've said you were surprised that he didn't quarter crack on the left front.

I have to look at that left hind again today - I had not noticed any swelling before around the suspensory region, but yesterday before these pictures were taken apparently the three boys were tearing about the pasture galloping hard, so he may have done all sorts of injury to himself. He was off in the right front last night, but that's pretty normal right now, although he was worse (again, I thought perhaps he just overdid it). I do see it in the photo, however, and I think that's new as of last night *sigh*

Just to clarify, the left feet both have some white on them, and the right feet (both front and hind) are all black. Makes them easier to identify.

The farrier did lift the heel of the shoe in an attempt to make the foot grow *down*. He lifted the toe too so that what was striking the ground was the middle portion of the foot. I'm sure "lifted" isn't the proper terminology, so I apologize, it basically looked like he didn't want the toe to strike the ground nor the heel. I think it was in an attempt to get the hoof to *want* to grow straight down.

I have no problem putting him in a bar shoe - would you use a straight bar with him or a heart bar shoe? I've never seen those pads, I'll have to talk to my farrier about them.

He's already grown over the inside of the RF shoe and it's only been two weeks. Could his extreme lameness today be because the foot is changing too rapidly?

[Jason Maki]

You are right, my lyxdexia again... right front is twisted.
Jason Maki CJF

[calshoer]

The RF is sheared about as badly as any I have seen.
The medial heel is FAR too tall and probably had been that way most of the life of this horse.
This wreck is typical of a horse that someone a long long time ago tried to "fix" his toe out conflrmation by lowering the outside of the foot and leaving the inside taller. Which just kept shearing the inside heel and in turn the tal inside heel pushed the outside toe further forwad. (when one heel is too tall, the whole hoof capsule twists and turns and the opposite toe flares ).

The amount it can be remedied depends on how permenant the changes are inside the footI suspect the cofin bone is now very asymetrical from uneven loading over so many years.But the hoof pain can be reduced or eliminated by rebalancing the foot and getting the heels more evenly loaded.
AND easing breakover.
I use a bar shoe and float that inside heel. With the breakover point placed s a point under or near the tip of the coffin bone rather than at the perimeter.

BOTH feet have the breakover point too forward for mechanical efficiency and ease of movement .
That subtle flare on the lower end of the hoofwall in both toes is an indication that the hoofwall is slowly drifting forward from it's relationship with the coffin bone. The left fore is doing that because there is too much heel on the foot , which drives the whole hoof capsule forward, and the perimeter fit shoe is assisting in leveraging the hoof wall forward from whjere it belongs.
The heels on the other foot (the sheared one) will also respond faster if the toe of the shoe is brought back under that foot where it belongs, placing breakover in a spot closer to the tip of the coffin bone. The whoel capsule can remodel around the bone better.

This is a clasic example of "skilled" farriery (nice forge work) that is actually doing the horse no justice because of the hoof balance issues.
Patty

[Phil Armitage]

Jason, I'm confused. The major shear is on the right front, no? You've said you were surprised that he didn't quarter crack on the left front.

I have to look at that left hind again today - I had not noticed any swelling before around the suspensory region, but yesterday before these pictures were taken apparently the three boys were tearing about the pasture galloping hard, so he may have done all sorts of injury to himself. He was off in the right front last night, but that's pretty normal right now, although he was worse (again, I thought perhaps he just overdid it). I do see it in the photo, however, and I think that's new as of last night *sigh*

Just to clarify, the left feet both have some white on them, and the right feet (both front and hind) are all black. Makes them easier to identify.

The farrier did lift the heel of the shoe in an attempt to make the foot grow *down*. He lifted the toe too so that what was striking the ground was the middle portion of the foot. I'm sure "lifted" isn't the proper terminology, so I apologize, it basically looked like he didn't want the toe to strike the ground nor the heel. I think it was in an attempt to get the hoof to *want* to grow straight down.

I have no problem putting him in a bar shoe - would you use a straight bar with him or a heart bar shoe? I've never seen those pads, I'll have to talk to my farrier about them.

He's already grown over the inside of the RF shoe and it's only been two weeks. Could his extreme lameness today be because the foot is changing too rapidly?

The pad is a heart bar pad. It can turn a regular shoe into a heart bar shoe. It is supportive and will help unload the sheared heel. A straight bar shoe will help, but no where near as supportive as a heart bar. The only time I will not use a heart bar or any frog support pads, impression material or Equipak is when the frog is thrushy or sore, get the frog cleaned up and healthy first before covering it up. Once the frog is clean and healthy the Myron Mclaine pad with Equipak helps keep the dirt and moisture out of the foot as you go through the process of fixing the sheared heel.

[OakesBrae]

Calshoer and all...

Thank you - that makes a lot of sense. How quickly would you expect to begin to see relief of that foot once he was shod in that way?

No problem on the mixed up fronts Jason - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I had a hard time keeping the pictures straight, myself.

Phil, so the pad itself helps the shoe become a heart bar - neat, I guess I didn't understand that from the previous description.

Thanks everyone, I'll see what we can do. This guy has a huge heart, and if I can't have him sound enough to compete, I at least want him sound enough to be a pasture puff.

[Phil Armitage]

You can get pretty quick relief. Getting the sheared heel to drop down to an even plain will take time. I worked on a horse where we got instant relief and could go back to work emmediatly after putting on straight bars heart bar pad, but it took aprox 6-8 months to get the sheared heel down. One foot is still deformed. I think the damage is perminant. As Patty said the internal structures of the foot can remodle and be perminant. However pain and discomfort can be eliminated. You might want to keep him shod in support when working and go to a plain open shoe or barefoot in the off season. Only time will tell.

[Rick Burten]

[QUOTE=Phil Armitage]

> I worked on a hore where we got instant relief

Name and number please. Pretty Please. Aw come on now Phil, share and share alike. :D :D :D :D

OK, now that I 've got that out of my system

I agree that a good approach would be a heart bar orthotic of some kind.
that said, I might try just a very light piece of flat harness steel, that was applied from the lateral toe quarter to the heel, making sure that the frog was in contact with the ground, and the steel offered lateral support(which shouldn't be too hard to do if you start with a piece of bar stock). That would let you protect the lateral side, and work on lowering that medial side and toe on a frequent basis. Or, perhaps, a 3/4 heart bar shoe.

Rick

[Red Amor]

just couldnt help your self Buten ;)

and I just wasnt quick enough:)


very intresting thread thanks guys

[Phil Armitage]

Rick, you don't miss a thing. :D I'm imbarrassed. Thats what I get for not proof reading. I edited it to "horse". When you think about it that doesnt sound good either.

[OakesBrae]

I worked on a hore where we got instant relief

You know, I wanted to say something when I read it but I thought - I don't know these guys, and that would probably seem ungrateful to pick on that :D

The horse is *very* much lame today. He overdid it in the pasture, ripped a hole in the pad, and feels like he's got a huge flat tire.

Farrier is coming monday.

[OakesBrae]

Okay, anyone got any ideas for digitizing xrays? I have his films and something looks strange. His pIII bone is parallel to the ground in the left front and actually goes "the other way" with the right (I believe it's called a negative palmar angle). So...as I'm trying to put this together, that should be causing him heel pain in both front feet, and putting stress on the navicular bone in both fronts (the right moreso than the left), is this correct? So, is this *because of* the long toe/low heel thing that he's going on (in addition to the shearing etc.)?

Argh!

[tipptoez]

Hi, just another owner here, but I have a horse with similar problems. He didn't have the severe shear, but was developing a one on the left front. He is a 7 yo Qrt horse. He had really bad heel pain, would land toe first on all four feet, had LONG toes and very underrun heels and the shoes gave no caudal support at all. Spent 6 months going to vets getting x-rays etc. no one picked up the ground parallel (negative palmer angle) and my horse kept getting more and more crippled. Vet finally said he has navicular, even though radiographs showed no changes.

Found a new farrier who picked up the problem right away. He shod the horse full with a 1 degree wedge pad and equithane packing. No more toe first landing, no more crippled horse. This shoeing package got his hoof pastern angle correctly aligned, gave support to the caudal aspect of the hoof thus supporting the back half of the coffin bone so it was no longer in a negative plane. Of course he did a proper trim first as well.

Based on my experience (again I am just one horse owner) having a ground parallel PIII can cause severe, crippling heel pain. It has been four months since I changed farriers and my horse is doing awesome! I am just keeping my fingers crossed there is no permanent damage in there that might show up down the road. My horse may be one of those with "genetically" weak feet, so I don't know what the future holds in terms of his shoeing package. For now though he sure is a very happy boy.

[OakesBrae]

Thanks Tipptoe, that's what I'm kinda thinking is going on - I'm glad your guy is feeling better. I think the toe is also causing pain as it separates due to the pressure on the splay. Let's hope I can get someone to do something about it now!