Adhesions on the DDFT

[irishcas]

Hi All:

I'll start :) I already forwarded the pix to Pat Reilly but thought others might like to join in the conversation.

I do a lot of limb dissections, I'm fascinated by them, my hope is to someday do a whole horse or a few anyway. I just like it.

Anyway, in the beginning I didn't see this adhesion but lately on almost all the feet I"m getting I am seeing this attachment on the DDFT. Not always in the same place but close enough.

Pat gave me a good answer, I'll post it here once I get his permission. But I wanted to know who else is seeing this?

If you go here http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/irishcas/Cadaver%20-%20Founder/ you can see the photos I took of it. I think I have other feet with the same attachment, I'll try and find it and upload them.

Here is another foot http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/irishcas/Paige%20Cadaver/

Most of the feet I get are unhealthy as you'll see in the pix. I go to a farm where they collect the dead horses. I wish I could find a hospital that would give me legs. So far no go.

Look forward to hearing what you all have found.

Regards,

Kim Cassidy

[Patty Lynch]

Great pics, Kim! :) I'm gonna say they are a result of injury to the DDFT and they are the product of the healing process.

That's just my semi-educated guess, however :o

Can't wait to hear what Pat has to say :)

Dr. Jeff Thomason at Guelph University does whole horse dissections once a year. http://www.equineguelph.ca/index.php He was WONDERFUL up at the Symposium at New Bolton last Spring. I REALLY hope he comes back next year. Hint, hint, Pat ;)

[irishcas]

Fancy meeting you here Patty :D

Pat basically is saying the same thing. How many of these horses have injuries than? I wish I could always get histories on the feet I get.

We just put a mare down on the farm that I live at. The owners won't let me cut the feet off though :( I've been tending her feet for almost 5 years. One of my clients horses almost died yesterday (colic) and I was excited to get the feet, but he pulled through surgery and will live. So good for him and her but darnnit no go for me.

Sick aren't we.

Regards,

Kim Cassidy

[Patty Lynch]

I think to get the adhesions like in the photographs, the injury would have to be older so I don't think you are seeing these cadavers as a result of euth's from these injuries themselves.

It is truly amazing what horses can survive,tolerate and endure. Through dissections we get a window into their lives but it leaves you wanting to know more, doesn't it?

I tend to get super focused on one thing when I work a dissection :o So I know I miss a lot in the tissue and tendons. For a while, I was focused on the toe stay mechanism and the corresponding notch in P3 and that's why I took the photo inside the capsule of the other thread.

I will slow down and look for the adhesions in the next one. :D

I bet there are more than we realize :o

Interesting stuff :D

[DeniseMc]

Isn't that the distal digital annular ligament?
Denise

[Patty Lynch]

The tendon being lifted in the photos is the DDFT and the fibrous looking connections underneath it are the adhesions that Kim is questioning, I believe. The DDAL is more distal and caudal and wraps on top (geez what's the location term for that? posterior?) of the DDFT and not between the DDFT and the SDSL as in the pic.
Hope I got that right :o Where is Pat anyway, LOL!

[DeniseMc]

Yep, I should have enlarged the photos and taken a closer look first:o
Denise

[Ronald Aalders]

These are not the deep fascia connecting DDFT and SDFT just below the fetlock, the late Dr. Rooney mentioned on this board about a year ago?


Ronald Aalders

p.s. Thanks for sharing!!! Really interesting, I almost never get a chance to look at feet this way.

[irishcas]

Isn't that the distal digital annular ligament?
Denise

No it's not, I cut that off :)

These are not the deep fascia connecting DDFT and SDFT just below the fetlock, the late Dr. Rooney mentioned on this board about a year ago?

Did he document it on his website? It does look and feel like Fascia but why would something that is supposed to "move" (DDFT) and is so slick, have that attachment?

Regards,

Kim Cassidy

[Ronald Aalders]

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202&highlight=deep+fascia

You're welcome :D


Ronald Aalders

[irishcas]

Thank you!!

I'm just starting to read the thread, I think I'll be busy for a while :)

I'll be back with more questions I'm sure

Regards,

Kim Cassidy

[Patty Lynch]

When I look at the photographs, especially on the foundered foot, the tissue in question seems to be located distal to where the SDFT and the DDFT even come together. However on the other leg, the tissue looks more proximal and perhaps it could be the deep fascia that Dr. Rooney was referring to ? I admit, finding reference and orientation is difficult for me in pictures and without being the one doing the dissection :o What are your thoughts, Kim?

Thanks very much for the link, Ron..... good stuff :)

[irishcas]

Patty:

I do think the other foot that Paige dissected has the connection higher up, but I am unsure if it is what Dr. Rooney is talking about.

I'm going to dissect 6 - 8 limbs this weekend, I'll be sure to get pictures of this area and try to mark it better as well.

I'll post photos on Sunday :) Hopefully I get some more answers.

Regards,

Kim Cassidy

[Patty Lynch]

Wonderful! Did you order your bugs from Ken to bat clean up for you? ;)

I have one in with them and I was lazy and they were REALLY hungry so I didn't remove the DC first. They absolutely will NOT touch it. The interesting thing is they ARE eating where it's connected so they are sort of removing it for me :cool:

Can't wait to see your pics.... thanks!

[irishcas]

No I haven't ordered yet, have been super busy this past week. And... I'm a little intimidated about building a good cage for them. I read thru that board you sent me and everyone has fancy fans and coolers for their bugs :)

I'm horrible at building things... you should have seen me trying to build my cages for the Wildlife Rehabbing... snort.

I'll get them though.

I wonder why they don't like the DC, do they eat the LC's?

I'll see if I can find some one locally to clean up for me after Saturday :)

Kim Cassidy

[Patty Lynch]

I wonder why they don't like the DC, do they eat the LC's?

They will eventually eat the LC... the last to go is always the LC and collateral ligaments. They prefer "meat". Tendons and more fibrous tissue is their least fav on the menu.