In Japan and desperate for some WLD advice from a farrier

[ShadowShoe]

Hello, Im an American working at a stable in Japan. Ive come to realize that the horse world here is not as it is in the States. There was a severely lame horse here and was explained to me that it suffered from WLdz. I observed the horse was unshod with rather long toes. Because of the significant language barrier communication it is difficult to exchange information, but I came to learn that this horse has been like this for over a year I asked with wide eyed wonder, what the heck the farrier thought of it. Apparently the farrier here has recommended putting medicine in the two inch plus crevices that go almost completely around the hoof and telling them it will be a while for it to grow out healthy. My question, I guess is...will this horse recover??? I brought some clean trax and fungidye in but tried to explain that it isn:t enough for the damage done already....was I correct? Also, I thought a farrier or a vet would normally take radiographs but nobody seems to think it is necessary as yet....is that unwise? Worse, another horse is walking around with gaping holes in both front feet on the horn near the toe and extending about two inches toward the hairline. Another stable nearby has 19 horses with wldz as well.

Can these horses heal from this without some intensive intervention by a farrier like resectioning? Can they heal by dumping medicine on it intermittently through the week? I would appreciate any advice or answer about the necessity of resectioning and whether it will hurt the already present laminitis.

Thanks

[bumfoot SHOER]

Hello, Im an American working at a stable in Japan. Ive come to realize that the horse world here is not as it is in the States. There was a severely lame horse here and was explained to me that it suffered from WLdz. I observed the horse was unshod with rather long toes. Because of the significant language barrier communication it is difficult to exchange information, but I came to learn that this horse has been like this for over a year I asked with wide eyed wonder, what the heck the farrier thought of it. Apparently the farrier here has them dumping medicine in the two inch plus crevices that go almost completely around the hoof and telling them it will be a while for it to grow out healthy (and this horse has been severely lame for over a year already!!). I finally got some info about dealing and eradicating wldz but the farrier here is not advising it. That is cutting away the horn over the damaged areas and doing what farriers know how to do to support the hoof after that. My question, I guess is...will this horse recover??? I brought some clean trax and fungidye in but tried to explain that it isn:t enough for the damage done already....was I correct? Also, I thought a farrier or a vet would normally take radiographs but nobody seems to think it is necessary....am I crazy to think that unwise? Worse, another horse is walking around with gaping holes in both front feet on the horn near the toe and extending about two inches toward the hairline. Another stable nearby has 19 horses with wldz as well.

Can these horses heal from this without some intensive intervention by a farrier? Can they heal by dumping medicine on it intermittently through the week? I would appreciate any advice or answer as Im really feeling bad for these horses.

Thanks one get an interperter so the you can speak to each other. some times you can treat wld without doing a resection if you can clean all the infection from the feet then make a copper sulphate paste to pack in the afected areas then take a wad of cotton with stockholm tar on the cotton when the tar and cotton are tickie plug the hole that you put the copper sulphate in. if this don't work then you will no choise but to stablise the hoofs with a shoeing package then do a resection on the feet imo.

[ShadowShoe]

The farrier here advised fungidye and Thrush Buster applied to cotton and stuffed into the gaping cracks a few times a week...but that was more than one year ago. Thank you for your advice, but I'm wondering...will the horse just stay like this forever? She can barely take one step can barely tolerate a foot being lifted and has been in that state for one year plus. I did speak to the farrier through an interpreter and he said a resection would take too long to recover from. He recommended keeping the toes long to elevate the coffin bone. To me it sounded wrong. What I really want to know is, what is eventually going to happen to the horse? What happens to a horse with runaway wld?

[Bradley-1stChoice]

He recommended keeping the toes long to elevate the coffin bone.
What happens to a horse with runaway wld?

P3 will rotate, or sink. The longer the foot the further it will go.

Now it has two problems, and even tougher to recover.

[texxmorgan]

for the right $ i can work in japan.........

[bumfoot SHOER]

The farrier here advised fungidye and Thrush Buster applied to cotton and stuffed into the gaping cracks a few times a week...but that was more than one year ago. Thank you for your advice, but I'm wondering...will the horse just stay like this forever? She can barely take one step can barely tolerate a foot being lifted and has been in that state for one year plus. I did speak to the farrier through an interpreter and he said a resection would take too long to recover from. He recommended keeping the toes long to elevate the coffin bone. To me it sounded wrong. What I really want to know is, what is eventually going to happen to the horse? What happens to a horse with runaway wld?
Shadowshoe as bradley Saint john said also with the horse in this state it will get to a point were it can not stand and or the out side hoof walls will come off and the horse will have to be put down.

[Ronald Aalders]

for the right $ i can work in japan.........


So, what would your advise be in this matter? How would you handle this if paid well enough?



Ronald Aalders

[texxmorgan]

So, what would your advise be in this matter? How would you handle this if paid well enough?



Ronald Aalders

Ronald, it is easy shoot all kind of solution on line, we don't have a lot of info, but for my point of view, most of the horses with so called WLD are ony inflammation of the laminae ad treated or shod the wrong way, if the horse(s)
is not well after a year, i am sure that i can do (or you can do) a better job than that.
BTW, Ron im going to shoe some horses in Germany, soon, i would like to know you and exchange some info about fruit (LOL), one day.

[Rick Burten]

I'd start by getting some heart bar shoes or the equivalent on the horse, and then (probably) doing a hoof wall resection to get all the pathogens and debris removed. If this is indeed a true case of WLD, then the pathogens will be in the margins of the 'wound' and unless you get to that area, success will be less than desired or needed.

There is a lot of discussion here on these forums regarding treating WLD, so I suggest you do a search of the archives too.

but for my point of view, most of the horses with so called WLD are ony inflammation of the laminae ad treated or shod the wrong way

Knowing the difference between WLD and an inflammation of the laminae is the first step in determining whether or not the problem is indeed WLD. And, it really should not be too difficult to determine the difference, once you are acquainted with the etiology and symptoms of WLD. YMMV

[texxmorgan]

Knowing the difference between WLD and an inflammation of the laminae is the first step in determining whether or not the problem is indeed WLD. And, it really should not be too difficult to determine the difference, once you are acquainted with the etiology and symptoms of WLD. YMMV

Do you think that our farrier in Japan will know the difference?

[Rick Burten]

Do you think that our farrier in Japan will know the difference?

Don't know. But there is enough information out there so that he can be 'home schooled".

[SlowShoe]

Take some pictures to satisfy our curiosity if you could. When your saying he wants to leave toe, he could be saying sole, and not understand how to back up a toe.

I know a guy, well 2 guys in hokkaido if thats where you happen to be?

[ShadowShoe]

I will take some photos. The farrier came back out and squared off the mare's toes and took off the flare. But that's it, also advised that it will take a very long time to grow out healthy feet. I came in expecting to see a resection or something like that. So the horse is basically still extremely lame and getting Clean Trax applications. I don:t know if the Clean Trax will do any good, I:m assuming that since she has virtually no white line for at least 2.5 inches it can go right up the nice gaping crevice all around her hoof. The verterinarian diagnosed the horse last year with WLD. No radiograph has yet been taken because they are too expensive, but isn:t it kind of NECESSARY at this point to see how far P3 has rotated? Will this WLD grow out on its own? Does it really just need constant medicinal treatment or will reinfection continually occur if it is not resectioned? I appreciate all the help. By the way I:ve read almost every single post on this website about wld as well as every medical book....and website, but nothing tells me what will happen if they DONT do the things suggested. I.e., just "letting" wld grow out and laminitis simply getting a trim now and then or attempt to treat severe laminitis without radiograph?

Thanks again

Side note:
I have an interpreter today and found out that last year the horse DID have a small resection for WLD and then equilox was applied over the resected area....that is why they do not want to do a resection again because it didn:t work last time. However the manager performed both....could the equilox contributed to the regrowth of the wldz?

[texxmorgan]

yes.
btw, is someone in your barn going th the big event in dubai?
there is a big thig about horses and people all over the world are going....

[Rick Burten]

So the horse is basically still extremely lame and getting Clean Trax applications.

Has any support been added to the bottom of the hooves 'cause it is sure sounding like this horse has a mechanical founder and is either rotating, sinking or both.

No radiograph has yet been taken because they are too expensive, but isn:t it kind of NECESSARY at this point to see how far P3 has rotated?

Yes. Further, regardless of how expensive the rads may be, in the end, its going to cost someone a lot of money, time and effort to remediate the problem. So they should just figure that radiographs are a 'cost of doing business'.

Will this WLD grow out on its own?

I have never, as in 'ever', seen an advanced case of WLD get better of its own accord.

Does it really just need constant medicinal treatment or will reinfection continually occur if it is not resectioned?

So long as any pathogens remain, the infection will continue. And, if the damage under the hoof capsule is extensive, then it is going to be very difficult to reach all the infection.

By the way I:ve read almost every single post on this website about wld as well as every medical book....and website, but nothing tells me what will happen if they DONT do the things suggested. I.e., just "letting" wld grow out and laminitis simply getting a trim now and then or attempt to treat severe laminitis without radiograph?

The most likely scenario is that the infection will continue until there is enough destruction of the wall-insensitive laminae interface that the horse suffers a complete hoof capsule failure and the bony column drops out the bottom.

Side note:
I have an interpreter today and found out that last year the horse DID have a small resection for WLD and then equilox was applied over the resected area....that is why they do not want to do a resection again because it didn:t work last time.

Odds are that it didn't work because the resection was incomplete and then the problem exacerbated by the application of the equilox patch which merely created an environment condusive to the anaerobes responsible for the infection to flourish and reproduce.

However the manager performed both....could the equilox contributed to the regrowth of the wldz?

Yep, that along with a healthy dose of ignorance. YMMV

[ShadowShoe]

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to write that reply. It is very easy to find advice about what to do but I have been afraid of what is going to happen since I know its not being done. As of this moment the answer you supplied is being interpreted. Thank you again.