Help! Severly Out of Balance

[shoerbee]

I wish I had the words to properly articulate this mare's condition. I don't, but did get some mediocre pics to help.
At one time, this mare was apparently diagnosed Navicular and nerved, then had some tendon damage after that. She has been at pasture for at least a year.
She is almost weight bearing on heel bulbs, esp in LF. Owners report she lays down much of day. She is bright, alert and in good body condition, but in obvious pain.
Here's the catch: The owners will not/cannot afford x-rays or hugely involved (i.e. expensive) treatments. They are willing to just kind of let her be in pasture. :(
In my somewhat limited experience, the most I could suggest the day we took these pics was to get the heel back as far towards the widest part of frog that I could and take tons of toe (much from top), squaring it aggressively so she could have some sort of help with breakover until I got some advice. Suggesting that regardless, we work a little at a time every few weeks.
After trimming, I did square the toe on an Eventer (attempting to emulate NB) and nailed it on hoping to bring back breakover even more initially and offer some heel support. Though without excessively extended heels , she just fell over back of shoe onto bulbs. In order for shoe heels to extend to underneath bulbs, they would extend a good two inches from where heel touches shoe right now. Start with an Egg Bar? (Talking them into confining mare was also difficult) Sooooooooo, I pulled shoe.....and came home to write to you all. HELP! I very much want to help this mare, and would even do so at some expense of my own in order to make it a learning experience while making her comfortable.
Below is link to pics: I wish they were more detailed.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shoerbee2/album?.dir=/f86c&.src=ph

[Peggy Dolan]

WOW, that's quite hodge podge of challlenges you've gotten yourself into. Did the owner's mention what tendon might be afflicted? The combo of being nerved/navicular might cancel itself out. How about a patton shoe?
Good luck, look forward to further adventures.

[Rick Burten]

Those are before the trim pictures, right? We need to see some after pictures .

Regardless, If that were me, I'd get the real NB shoes on her along with some wedges. How much wedging would depend on what the feet looked like after I got rid of all the garbage. And, I think I'd go with the aluminum NB shoe to start with to hold down the weight of the package.

Now, all that said, I want to add this and I don't want you to take it wrong. I think you may be in a bit over your head at this time. If you have any collegues in your area, any other farriers that you know and trust,with lots of experience , call them and ask for their help. You will be well ahead of the game if you do so.

Lacking that, get as many more pictures as you can and post them. I know that everyone here will do their best to assist you with the task before you.

That these owners are as negligent as they have been, makes your task more difficult, but if they refuse to do the proper things for this horse, regardless of what it costs(and they have no one to blame but themselves for the sorry condition those feet are in), then report them to your local Animal Control/Humane Society.

Rick

[Dances with Hooves]

I'd echo the need to call animal welfare. Getting these feet back in shape will most likely require using the full EDSS system with impression material and rails. This will not be inexpensive.

George

[pltrmmr1973]

Just a suggestion and question,but how about making new heals with vettec (or other similar product)I've never done heels like that but if this was a horse i was working on I think it would be something I'd consider.Like to hear what others think about this suggestion.

[calshoer]

I believe that she has probably disconnected the DDFT from the bottom of the coffin bone.A not so uncommon long term effect of de-nerving in seriously deterorated navicular bones.
An Xray will probably reveal a seriously subluxated coffin joint with P2 , dropped backward in the coffin joint and a cofin bone tipped backward as well. A negative plane to the max. Probably Not fixable.
I have known two like this in my career.(I mentioned these in an older post) one dead now, one a pasture ornament. Neither tolerated ANY wedging because they had been that way so long that wedging them disrupted the internal tissues that had probably set the way they were.
The first horse was brought to a clinic in So. Cal by a recent graduate lady farreir who was about the fifth farrier....and believe it or not she was the FIRST to even suggest a veterinarian to the poor new horse owners(bought as a "guaranteed gentle childs horse") . All the others had tried to fix the feet without a vet involvement or diagnosis, and with disasterous results every time because they didn't know how serious the problems were inside the foot. Every time somebody wedged her ,she promptly blew out all 4 heels with huge abscesses and went down for days. Once the Xrays were taken it looked pretty hopeless, (here they are) and indeed turned out to be. We were able to temporarily create a bit more comfort by trimming the heels back to create a better base of support, and nailed on a "double double nail pad" system (we dubbed it a "Mc Double") type of thing (similar to the current Steward clogs) for a full roller motion effect. Taping on wedge pads during the shoeing to try it out immediately caused more lameness, so wedging was out. Unfortunately she again abscessed badly through the heels a few weeks later and was put down.
The one I do now I keep barefoot, bringing the heels back from ONLY the widest part of the foot, and rockerign the daylights out of the whole front, creating a barefoot 'banana foot' so to speak. He like that pretty well. He also occasionally absceses (really BAD ugly ones because he can't feel them until the get huge) but gets over them quickly and had a pretty nice life otherwise , doing ab****ely nothing.

[Phil Armitage]

I don't know what to say, had all kinds of comments, but they werent too kind. I quess all I can say is if this were my horse and I could not afford to do the right thing then I would put the horse downe and end the suffering. But that is me and not everyone thinks that way.

[Ronald Aalders]

I heard you say that more than once Phil. And in some cases you may be right. But deciding to euthanise a horse is a difficult one and should not be made 'just' because a horse is suffering. It's the endless suffering that may warrant putting the horse down.

If there is any chance of a cure go for it!


Ronald Aalders

[Phil Armitage]

I agree, as long as you can do right by the horse. Every one already knows the go for it option, I am just throwing out the other option that nobody likes to talk about. Not everyone has what it takes financially or time to the right thing, so you can only go for it as long as you can afford it and can put the effort into it. I do not agree that a farrier should take this on without the owners takeing ownership of the situation, we all care and hate to see an animal not recieve the right treatment, but the owner needs to take on the financial burden and put the time and effort into it not the Farrier. This owner has already expressed that this horse lays down most of the time and they cannot afford a Vet. I can show you many cases like this and there are not enough of us to run around saveing them all out of our pockets. What is this horse going to do if dogs come into the paddock and chase her down. It is a difficult descision to make and a personal one, all it takes is to be more compasionate for the animal and think things through.

[calshoer]

The option to euthanize is indeed a very personal one, between the horse and its caretakers.
In the two cases I cite, the first horse was down most of the time , and was purchased by complete novices from an unscrupulous seller to be a litle girl's beginner mount .Unfortunately that was out of the question and the mother of the girl could not afford to save the horse as an unrideable pet.
The other horse, the one I currently do, actually came from a rescue group , (purchaed from the killer sale) so their intent is to do everything possible to have him live a comfortable life doing nothing more than getting groomed and treats, with a goat and a couple of other horses to keep him company. The story on him is that he was a high level jumper for many years prior to getting into this condition and so the rescuers believe he deserves a little respite until the end time does finally come. And he truly does seem happy except during the once or twice a year absceses. His current caretakers are fully aware that the time will eventualy come when he needs euthanizaion, but not quite yet. Patty

[Bill Adams]

Hello pltrmmr1973,
Thats a weird name, but thats not what I called about.
One could very nicely build heels with Equithane Super Fast, but we dont want higher heels on this one, we want to cut a couple of inches off to get the frog into play.

Shoerbee,
Another weird name.
I just learned this from Mike DeLearndo, put the cost on a credit card or make a contract with the owner. Have them pay a hundred bucks a month.
You will probably find they will be very concerned now, then ignore it for another year and then call the next new Farrier and tell them how you couldn't help the horse and how concerned they are.
Welcome to the club,
Bill (a normal name)

[Phil Armitage]

Bill, thank you for the credit card idea, I like it, funny how people become concerned when it hits them in the ole pocket book all of a sudden it is important, dollar wise anyways. Nice part about it is nobody can claim you were not willing to take the time to try. Anyone will let a someone do something for nothing. Hey did you notice another Boston team is doing pretty good, we might end up with championships in all three sports. That would be something.

[matryoshka]

Hey Bill,

I have nothing to add that could help this horse, since it is WAY over my head. I just wanted to say that I've seen you tweak people a number of times for choosing user names rather than their own names. This seems to bother you a lot, as if they are hiding behind user names because they are afraid of looking like i-diots professionally.

I guess that's possible, but there is another explanation. I think women are more likely to choose user names because of a desire to keep their names private--not out of embarassment, but out of necessity. I was stalked 23 years ago, and I still look over my shoulder and get uneasy when I see the same stranger several times. It was a very scary situation, and I will never forget how it felt. Luckily, I escaped unscathed. But I can tell you that it makes me very leary of putting my real name (let alone my picture) out here where anybody can read it. Yes, I know predators can get my info anyway, but I'd rather not make it easy for them. The world isn't quite as safe for us women. If you need more examples, I've got plenty right out of my own life.

So please go easy on those of us who choose not to use our own names. It probably has little to do with professionalism and a lot to do with the discomfort/fear of floating real names on the www.

Pam (normal name for an abnormal person :eek: )

[caballus]

First, here's a way to pretty much pinpoint the position of the P3 within the capsule without xrays:

The angle of the new growth at the periople will tell you the top (dorsal) angle of the P3: the angle of the bottom (solar)of the P3 will be assessed by looking at the deepest part of the sulcus at the back of the frog and follow to the deepest part of the concavity at the TRUE apex of the frog. This will give you the bottom angle. From that you can visualize just where in the hoof capsule the P3 lies.

Looks like you've got long toe/low heel. I'd start lowering the heels and bringing them back and shortening the toe right back through the white line to the sole. I'd also lower the walls to the level of the sole and form a nice, flat callus area. If the owners would agree, I'd be there every other week to trim for a few weeks to keep getting those toes back and the heels down.

Just did a drastic long toe/low heel on a horse that had been in shoes for 23 years. Went 3 legged lame. Pulled the shoes (per vet order), trimmed him up. The first month he did OK - was still head-bobbing lame going to the left ... but then the owner turned him out 24/7 and he romped and played and got plenty of movement with his paddock buddy. 2 1/2 weeks later I went to trim him up again and I could NOT believe the difference in the hooves. Unless one had a trained eye, there would be no difference seen between these hooves and perfectly sound, healthy hooves. This horse was 100% sound (yes, verified by vet) They had been so remodeled through the movement (and yeah, some of the trim. ;) ) that I was astounded and it firmly and finally cemented into my heart that MOVEMENT is the key, the ultimate key, to restoring equine hooves to ultimum health and soundness.

Start getting these hooves back into their natural state (trim them up properly), advise the owner to turn him out on hard ground 24/7 and watch the hooves do their thing.

I posted photos to show how to read the position of the P3 in the hoof at:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/caballus2000/album?.dir=b5cd

The 2 photos are marked shoerbee1 and shoerbee2. Hope you can access them. I'm not too savvy with the yahoo photo album stuff.

:) --Gwen

[Ronald Aalders]

Usually I don't interfere when people are convinced they can asses the position of P3 by looking at the hoofcapsule. Some, after seeing tons of X rays, are pretty good at it.

I'm sorry to say Gwen, you're not.

If you're suggesting your image 1 (note the dish and the fullness above the dorsal hairline) has a P3 positioned the way you marked it, you're way off mark. That goes for image ´Shoerbee 1´ too.



Ronald Aalders

[caballus]

Actually, no, Ronald ... the marks you saw on all but Shoer1 were suggested trim markings; not where the P3 is. The dorsal wall angle of the Shoer1 is correct according to the angle at the periople.

--Gwen

[Ronald Aalders]

Now that's a relief!



Ronald Aalders

[calshoer]

Gwen
Again I have to say I think you are off base on this one with your suggested trim lines. WAY off in fact .

Although the upright foot probably DOES have the coffin bone *angle* you suggest, if you trimmed the foot THAT short, you would be likely cutting off the tip off the coffin bone.
This is because most of those clubby feet have the tip VERY CLOSE to the ground with little sole underneath. The bone may sit low in the foot.

Then to the other foot ,the long toe one.
I am telling you that from experience AND having the pooprtunity to look at XRays of SO many of my clients feet, it would be INCORRECT to back that toe up to the whitline as you suggest.

This one is NOT just a long toe. The BULGE in the dorsal wall is a dead giveaway that the tip of THIS coffin bone is seriously tipped UP, literally pushing the wall outward from the bone being in a serious negative plane.
It is NOT at the angle where your black line is. The reason the periople angle may be steeper is likely because the bone is sunk in the foot, creating a little dip in the upper wall as it is pulled inward there. Look at he Xray of the one I posted and see how far down in the foot that bone sits, it is WAY low. . This foot is probably a much more negative plane than your line assumes ,in order to create that much bulge in the middle of the wall. Thinning that wall would seriously compromise the protection of the doral aspect of that bone. The tip of the bone is probably RIGHT UNDER the bulge in the wall .

I agree the heels should be brought back if they are underun, but LEAVE THAT WALL ALONE ! This foot is nowhere normal , and unless Xrays reveal the possibility of a miracle, will probably NEVER be normal. And therefore needs some special considerations.

If the DDFT IS indeed disconnected, the foot may need a completely different kind of proptocol than any other kind of foot. This is a rare situation and following your barefoot guidelines for making it into a normal foot is DANGEROUS.Trying to "fix" it is why one of these I personally knew is dead. The other one has NOT been fixed but is happy and alive.

X-rays are of course still most preferable but even without them, thinning that wall on that bulged foot is NOT in the best interest of this foot. It could backfire badly.
I had a young farrier Email me a couple of years ago who said he thinned the convex dorsal wall on a horse with a negative plane P3,(to get it to look right) added wedge pads and frog support, and the dorsal wall quickly caved in the middle and he wondered why.
Why? because he THINNED it in the middle to remove the bulge, but in fact the wall was NOT thicker there to begin with!
It had the damn BONE right under it, pushing it outward. So the thinned weakened wall then just followed the bone tip back inward as the bone angle was raised. Instant dish in the wall and no protection for the bone.

Gwen ,
in my opinion (and I mean this kindly) you l have a lot more to learn and if you can start getting X-rays of more feet you are doing, before and after the trims, it will help you a lot.

Here are some pictures of the actual foot of the previous Xray Iposed wit ha horse in this condition , to help illustrate my point. Please look CLOSE at hte hairline below the coronay band, despite the long hair, you can see it is steeper than the rest of the wall .
But this is NOT one ofthose cases where you can assume that the bone is parallel to the coffin bone angle, because the bone has fallen FAR below that inside the foot.
Look at these pictures, then back at the Xray of this example foot earlier in this thread.

I placed a red line similar your line on your picture, (parallell to the very top of the hoofwall) , then a green one where P3 anglee really is. And the Xray proves it.

See there is a lot more to READ in this foot besides the angle of the top of the wall. The SOLE Plane also clearly gave evidence that this was a severe naegative plane because it was VERY live and even bulged under the wings of the coffin bone and had evidence of trauma there.
Patty .

[Just Shoe It]

Ronald your right and I agree. That was the most ridiculus post ive ever seen , none of it made sence, please dont trim this horse based on those guidlines, I agree to bring the toe back but never into the white line but bring it back. Second post is 6 years to really get me going!

[caballus]

Patty wrote, Thinning that wall would seriously compromise the protection of the doral aspect of that bone. The tip of the bone is probably RIGHT UNDER the bulge in the wall . ... thinning that wall on that bulged foot is NOT in the best interest of this foot. It could backfire badly.


I don't think I mentioned thinning the walls at all, Patty? Again, just as I labeled the photo, I marked that photo to show where *I* think the P3 wall is. That's all. That was not a trim line.

I agree to bring the toe back but never into the white line but bring it back.

Obviously one needs to see the hoof live to make a true assessment according to what the live hoof is telling. Based on what I see in d3 though, there's a hell of alot of long, underslung heel that has forced the foot to migrate forward. To get that back means to get the heels back and get the toe back as far as possible with each trim. There isn't much wall between the white line and the outside of the wall because the foot has migrated so far forward. There is no reason, however, why one cannot trim back into the white line to the sole to help the foot begin to function more normally again.

There also seems to be very thick,dead sole that needs to be cleaned up and gotten rid of. In the shape the hooves are in as shown, the hooves cannot function properly to rid themselves of the dead material. The heels are contracted. Appears to be yeast in the bulbs of the heel. The apex of the frog needs to be cleaned up to see where the true apex is. As for rasping from the top? Well, first of all I never take more than 1/3rd the thickness of the wall nor do I take more than 1/3 the length of the toe from coronary down to the ground. I know most farriers advocate taking 1/2 of the length and 1/2 of the thickness if needed but I'm not comfortable taking that much and weakening the wall.

So, Patty, please tell me where you read in my post that I advocated thinning the wall and Just Shoe It ... I'd be interested in knowing why you would not rasp into the white line in this drastic hoof in order to get the hoof closer to a more normal, functioning shape and form?

--Gwen

[Phil Armitage]

I would be very carefull about how much you removed from the dorsal wall. These feet definately indicate that there is more than meets the eye here. The heels look long, however trimming them down too much may not be a wise thing to do either, look at the frog it looks tender, you may end up makeing this horse more uncomfortable. I would clean them up get them dry and healthy and trim little by little. If your not carefull you may end up haveing to shoe this horse because you made her worse. It does not sound like you will have the luxury of a Vet on your side either. So be carefull of what you committ to. Once you start trimming you owne it.

[caballus]

Phil ... you bring up some pertinent points that are necessary to consider with every trim, every horse, every time.

"... trim little by little"

You can't put back hoof that you've taken off. But one can tweak and shave off a little here or there as one goes along, FEELING and READING the individual hoof as being trimmed.

I just had 2 emergency trims this weekend with another basic trim as the horse was one of "the herd". All done by the same farrier. Two of them showed the same defaults; one is exhibiting navicular/caudal heel pain; the other is 30+ years old. The 3rd horse was foundered/rotated over a year ago and still exhibiting foundered fronts with lamness. The Navicular and basic were high on all outsides causing extreme toeing out. The foundered was high on the inside walls on one side of her body and the outside walls on the other side of her body. The toe on one front was dubbed so badly the dead laminae was exposed with no protectant hoof wall at all at the toe from quarter to quarter. No reason for this at all after over a year's "treatment" for founder. I believe the farrier's attitude was the driving force to the imbalanced, dysfunctional hooves. His attitude as stated to the owner was, "these are just old, rescued pasture potatoes so it doesn't really matter what their hooves are like." No feeling for the horses, never mind trying to assess and feel and read the individual hooves! Thus, navicular, founder and well-on-its-way to founder horses.

It's important to consider the individual hoof as it works physiologically and its present condition. It's important to learn to read the hooves and feel them, both tactilely and sensorily. Use angle and length measurements as a "goal" for a "perfect hoof" but don't expect or try to achieve those perfect angles/hooves right off the bat with hooves that are strongly misshapened or dysfunctional. When I post photos (please take note of this) I post what I feel is the goal by which to ascribe. I do ascribe, myself, for hooves that are as close to "natural" as possible with short toes (3"), a ground parallel coffin bone and angles of the front walls between 45 & 50 degrees with heels down enough for frog contact with the ground and angled just a bit less than the toes. I also watch for hairlines that are smooth with no dips, waves or bumps and around 30 degrees indicating ground parallel P3. I also address breakover, heel-first landing, lateral/medial balance, etc. etc. But, little by little as each individual hoof dictates. The horse, if you pay attention closely, will tell you when enough is enough. Listen. The horse is the final say regardless of what so and so says or does or advises. I can't tell you the numbers of times I've had vets or farriers tell me the horse can't POSSIBLY be sound because the angles, heights, lengths, whatever "aren't right according to textbook requirements". Well, shoot, when was the last time a horse read a textbook? If the horse strides out rhythmically, solidly, tracks up straight and display absolutely no lameness on tarred ground on a body that moves fluidly with equal muscling on each side, etc. then I'd say that horse is pretty comfortable in its own hooves. Regardless of what the textbooks read.

Off to work, now ...

--Gwen

[calshoer]

Gwen did you see ANY similarity in the example horse I posted to the one in question here? If not look again.
YOUR advice is WRONG in this case.
And you DID say to "shorten the toe all the way back to the whiteline". And you drew that line down the foot which implied that is where the angle of the coffin bone is which is ISN'T in this case.

That foot NEEDS protection under the bone, and trimming ANY part of it to back the whiteline is dangerous. If I misunderstood that you did not mean to dress back the whole wall, I apologize only for that, but still feel the same, shortening the toe in this one is also WRONG. You can NOT fix the cofin joint if it has been that way for a long time and without Xrays no one knows.

The one I posted is DEAD, partly because everyone (including us) did exactly what you are advocating. Brought the heels back and tried to fix the toe.
LOOK at where we trimmed the heels to begin the hoof preperation ,removing the underrun parts and bringing the heels back. She DIED a couple of weeks later when they put her down due to a repeat of such serious abscessing that had already happened before with every farrier who had tried to fix the heels and "shorten the toe".
And in case you were thinking it was maybe metal shoes that killed her, it wasn't .Because she had been barefoot a long while before that.
And was "shod" that day with double thick plastic hoof pads, no metal shoes. Patty

[caballus]

Hi Patty ... I said that I would start to bring the toe back to the white line ... Please read it again.

However, I may be wrong or you may be wrong. Either way doesn't really matter ... what matters is that whatever is the case with this horse that it be tended to in a manner that is healthy and corrective for him. I do see similarities between the hooves. So, please, tell me how you would treat these hooves?

Another quick note ... just fyi, I hadn't even thought of shoes one way or the other. I was thinking, point blank, in terms of getting the foundational trim correct and how to go about it. Sorry you felt defensive about what you thought I was thinking. And no ... I did not mean taking back to the white line completely around the hoof ... I said taking the *toes* back. Toes are toes; quarters are quarters; heels are heels and so on. I understand what you are saying so there's no need to reiterate; I'm merely clarifying what I said.

At any rate ... It will be interesting to find out just how this horse fares ...

--Gwen

[calshoer]

I said that I would start to bring the toe back to the white line ... Please read it again.


Then you had better buy a book in grammar and syntax to because THIS is an exact quote......and it reads differently from what you claim. If you don't understand why it read that way , a very good book to help you is called "Sin and Syntax" by Constance Hale . And it is funny, too. Heres your quote.

I'd start lowering the heels and bringing them back and shortening the toe right back through the white line to the sole.

If you had really meant what you NOW say you meant, it should have said..TOWARD the whiteline and sole .
But You said "RIGHT BACK THROUGH the whiteline to the sole". That is pretty damn clear.
Me thinks you are trying to weasel out of this one. But buy the book anyway. It is a good read.

Patty

[Ronald Aalders]

I said it before, "Dilbert and the Way of the Weasel" by Scott Adams is a very good book too! :D


Ronald Aalders

[caballus]

*sigh* ... I wasn't even looking at that, Patty ... I was focusing on the "start" ... part of the statement.

Sheesh!
--Gwen

[caballus]

Patty ... I really would like to know, in all seriousness, how you would go about treating theses hooves? Thank you.

--Gwen

[calshoer]

Ok serious. First, Xrays are really really needed to see just how badly the cofin joint is misaligned and if DDFT is indeed disconected. If the joint is not as bad as I suspect, then there may be a little hope but given the severity of the hoof distortion and given that it has been nerved and has the *exact* same "look" externally as the other two I have known , I would suspect the situation is very grave. It is not treatable in the "fix it " sense. It is probably manageable to some limited extent for a retirement life, certainly not repairable. Sadly sometimes there are things that NO protocol can fix.

If DDFT is disconnected, the normal mechanical parts that would place the internal structures back in alignment with correct trimming are simply not there to do the job.

Therefore trimming heels down may misalign the joint even more. (I think that is what caused the one we did to abscessed again through both heels and end up euthanized . ) Basically she could end up walking on the navicular bone if she looks anything like the one I posted.


The best I would hope if this is the situation is to maintain breakover in any diorection, while leaving ALL the sole under that bone as possible. Dead sole included. I might rocker the heels a little bit at the very back AND rocker the toe back to under the center of the joint to create a "rock and roll" bare foot. And clean out overlaid bar to hopefully prevent some of the inevitable abscessing ,and thats about it.
Or maybe try wedge pads nailed direftly to the foot instead of a shoe to see what that does. X-ray before and after they are applied and watch the horse clinically. These kind of cases are so rare that most farrier and vets have not seen one. So you may have to experiement because I doubt anyone has the 'best' protocol to try. I only know what DOESN'T work .

If DDFT connection is gone it can't be fixed. With some experimenting the farrier or trimmer may be able to maintain the horse in some form of comfort, but the joint is permenantly trashed if P3 and the navicular bone have no tendon support.
That 'rocker the whole foot and leave all the sole' trim is what I have been doing on the one that is still alive. He is certainly not sound but he gets around with a goat and is happy and looks for his treats. And he periodically blows the hugest thick ****-filled abscesses you coud imagine out the entire back of the foot. He doesn't feel them until they get that big. Usually they are under the frog and one bar.
Patty

[caballus]

Thank you.

--Gwen

[Rude_n_Ugly]

MOVEMENT is the key, the ultimate key, to restoring equine hooves to ultimum health and soundness.


:) --Gwen

I can only agree, movement is very important, but before trimming you have to be sure of the position of the bones!

Peter