red roan I worked on yesterday

[vthorseshoe]

Here is an animal who wouldn't pick up her legs.
She moved all over the place and when her leg was up she jerked it back and forth/forward and rear.
As i worked with her, her total demenor changed and she became calm and stood quietly and you can see she isn't pulling her leg away.

[vthorseshoe]

This mare is now lowering her head and standing calmly for the next stage of schooling.
See the tail is relaxed and her ears are listening.

[vthorseshoe]

When I first started picking up her hind legs, she would readily kick and push away.
Her legs and cannons are large enough and strong enough to break your leg should she hit you.
I worked with her to become relaxed on being touched and then to give her leg to me.

20minutes of schooling and I was able to remove all equipment and pick her legs up and trim her calmly.
A refresher for the next couple of times and she will not need it after that.

Teaching the horse is only part of the picture. Teaching the owner and the farrier how to approachhandle/and get under the animal is a large part of making all this a success.

[Rick Burten]

Interesting stuff Bruce. It looks like you use the "Matthews" version of a scotch hobble on the hinds?

With the front leg restrained as pictured, have you ever had one fight it and end up falling down and/or injuring the knee or point of the shoulder?

[Rightstep]

WOW great pictures!

Would you tie up a horse that had had sedation but still fighting? I had one vet tie up a front leg after a sedated horse was still fighting me really bad. The poor thing fell on the cement barn floor and broke a front tooth on landing. I got the trim done with the horse on the ground but scary non the less. After this I herd the vet had a bad name with the farriers in my area for being unsafe.

How did you learn your methods? Was it something you had to learn over years of working with drafts?

[Rick Burten]

How did you learn your methods? Was it something you had to learn over years of working with drafts?

Buy his CD. All will be revealed. :)

[vthorseshoe]

Really good questions.
Rick;

Yes, I want to sell my DVD's, BUT! That is not the purpose of this post..

All the time over the years I have read on this bulleting board,
"Tell the owners , get this horse trained."

Well Here is the methods I use to school horses I work on.

I learned some from old timers I knew growing up.
I modified a lot of it to work for me in a non agressive manner.
I tried many things until I found what worked for me and started showing other farriers.

Rick;
A scotch hobble has a totaly different purpose .
The method I use isn't tying a horse up, persay.
At ANY time I can release them to prevent injury.

The method isn't tie them up TO MAKE THEM STAND, but to be able to tie the leg AFTER, they have LEARNED TO STAND. It free's up your hand or a vets hands to work on the sole or remove a protrusion or object or crack or what ever.

Have I tied a leg up while horse is under sedation ?
Let me tell you about a Babarant I did. Huge horse, girth and body wise.
Would rear and move all over the barn and drag the owner with him everytime the farrier came. Would not pick up hind legs at all.
Soon NO FARRIERS came
The vet would be called and sedation given and horse would be wobbly. How do you pick up a leg safely on a wobbly horse especially an 1800 lb draft ?
I worked with my harness and the sedation was cut in half the second visit.
The third visit the vet was no longer part of the equation.
The forth visit the time to work this animal had gone from 1 3/4 hr. to 30 minutes and he was picking his legs up the minute the harness was put on.
I was able at this point to bring his hind legs up and do a trim.

No more sedation and I eventually had his trim time down to 20 minutes and no harness or rope.
This is a draft that wouldn't go into stocks and there was NO ONE who would do him anymore.

It is a method to bring the legs up without abuse or cruelty.
My method isn't tying them up to teach them but to raise their legs with the equipment until the animal gives it loose enough to pick it up with out injury to me .
It also is a safe method to keep your face and body out of harms way during the intial schooling.

A lot of desensitizing and tons of repetition of movements.
The harness and the rope are just aides in the schooling process.

Through the years so much bad has been written about using ropes and such. It is a shame because it is the inexperienced person who screws things up and cause's injury with bad judgement.

I watched a neighbor who couldn't get her horse to back take her crop and hit the animal all over the face and head.
I have watched folks take the bit in hand and pull and jerk to back a horse or stop a horse.
I have watched a lot of folks take a stock whip and or a cane and hit the animal terribley to get it to go into a trailer.
I have watched a hi class jumper refuse a jump and then the rider spun the horse in a tight circle almost falling down and hit it with a fury of anger because of its refusal to jump.
I know of, today and yester year, of farriers who get ****ed and nail a horse with a rasp or hammer
or take the lead rope and wail on the horse in anger and frustration thinking they are correcting it and the problem.
I watched a past AFA president back a horse completely around a large pasture without giving the horse a chance to stop because he wouldn't stand for trimming.
He kept pushing and pushing until the horse was moving out of fear and had not one clue at this point as to why it was happening.
I believe part of it was to show the crowd that he was the master and would teach this horse something.
When in reality his action was an embarrasment he was not smart enough to realize.
What they actually did was make the horse into a bundle of nerves who is scared and reacted out of fear of abusive retaliation.
He created a STICK OF DYNAMITE.
I CREATE A PARTNERSHIP and a CALM HORSE TO WORK ON.
I can go on with a long list of abuse I have seen the horse community do on a daily basis.

With my methods the animal is never scared and never know fear or pain.
The animal is taught to give and is rewarded by giving his legs back.
With my methods the animal will stand quietly with his/her head down and relaxed for me to work on it.

I rarely have to tie a horse or draft I work on becase I school them to understand what I expect out of them.

I have used my methods for over 14 yrs now and have only turned two horses away.
They had been hot shot so bad by the farmer using them for pulling that they were beyond trust anymore.
They would live out their life jumping out of fear because of owner ignorance and lack of skill and knowledge.

I have NEVER had one single injury from my method. And I can back that up with names and numbers of customers who own large stables and expensive drafts.

You see the rope and the syrcingle and you FORGET it is the human who makes everything work.
My customers see drafts/fresians/quarter horses/morgans and the list goes on that stand quietly for the farrier or vet and they no longer hear "get your horse trained or I won't be back" or the price has just gone up !"

I have draft horse barns that have 10 or more hitch horses who were ALL done in stocks when I went there. Now they stand like a riding horse calm and half asleep to be shod.
The horses learn to stand without leaning or pulling and become so relaxed that it becomes a pleasure to work on this animal. You the farrier , now have a long time customer and a great horse to work on, This equates to $$$$ in your pocket.

Come to RI or in the future a clinic in Ohio and watch me bring trust and confidence back into an animal that makes your farrier cringe when it is time to trim or shoe him.

my 2 cents worth ;)

[JimBondra]

Bruce,
Let me know when the clinic will be in Ohio. I would like to attend. And I would like to meet you as well.
Jim

[NJFarrierCJF]

Bruce I applaud you for working with horses the way to do. Working with the horse not doing something *to* him and keeping his dignity. It would be nice to see more farriers with your "anvilside manner". Keep up the good work.

[caballus]

Come to RI or in the future When will you be in Rhode Island?

[vthorseshoe]

see "VThorseshoe comes to R.I." under the FhF general discussion section.

[calshoer]

Bruce, all great stuff and even though you are not here to sell the DVD, since I have seen it, I highly recommend it to everyone.
And BTW... you HAVE lost some weight ! Lookin' a lot better . :D

[vthorseshoe]

More to loose Patty.

I am on a mission.

Thankyou so much for noticing !!! and the kind words. It means a lot.

Bruce :D

[Matt_McMicken]

I have to applaud you Bruce. Proves the point, a farrier needs to be a horseman first.

[vthorseshoe]

tre' bien, Ade'le.

I have only re-invented what has come down through the ages.
I made modifications and have made it user friendly for the horse and the technician.

Wish you could come down and watch.
Perhaps you can set up a clinic in Montreal.
I am only 1 hr. south of you.

Bruce

[HoustonFarrier]

If I am away from the stocks, I use a very similar technique, except that it is a "2-man" tie and hold hobble....that way, I can use BOTH my hands, and the helper (usually my wife) can release immediatly if needed.

I still prefer stocks :D

Steve

[Gary Hill]

I have to applaud you Bruce. Proves the point, a farrier needs to be a horseman first.

Well said!

[Gary Hill]

Hey you harness guys, how would ya fix this guy? He's a bit bowlegged!:)

[Julie Plaster]

tre' bien, Ade'le.

I have only re-invented what has come down through the ages.
I made modifications and have made it user friendly for the horse and the technician.

Wish you could come down and watch.
Perhaps you can set up a clinic in Montreal.
I am only 1 hr. south of you.

Bruce

Those of you who are privileged enough to be there, don't forget your cameras, charge the batteries & have your memory cards ready.

I have Bruce's DVD too. To quote Patty "since I have seen it, I highly recommend it to everyone."

Julie :-)

[DeniseMc]

Come to RI or in the future a clinic in Ohio

Hi Bruce,
When will you be in Ohio? I'd love to attend your clinic.
Denise

[vthorseshoe]

Steve. This thing I do different is teach the horse to pick up his leg.

My harness can be used to hold the leg in such cases as a lamanitic horse that can't stand easily. It will aide in getting each leg up to QUICKLY apply foam board or trim etc. until the animal is confortable to stand with a leg up.
And it does this with 3/4 less effort on the person raising the leg.

It can be used to doctor a foot etc.
But my main purpose it to teach the animal to stand like a riding horse.

I invest the time in schooling so each time I can have a better animal to work on. Not only willing legs, but a better demenor and attitude comes out of the training.

I still use stocks on a chosen few animals that owners with blinders on can't see or are willing for a change.
Stocks are a wonderful aide, (if the animal is schooled to enter and stand quietly) and will continue for decades to come.
To many folks FORCE animals into stocks and traumatize the animal and then you have stocks shaking and rocking and even to a point where some stocks have flipped over with the horse in them.
I am not against stocks or other methods of working on any animal, I am against folks using these venue's as a short cut to getting a job done. I am against folks using these venue's on any horse without the skilled knowledge of what they are doing and thus increasing the percentage of an animal getting hurt or scared so bad it will fight everything from then on.

I have mine set up as a single person operation because I can't be thinking about the horse and worrying about someone else who can't move quick enough or doesn't have the skills to read what the horse is going to do.

You have the opportunity to have your team mate in your wife and that most likely means you both are so in tuned to each other that you work as one smooth unit.
A GREAT situation, but distinct to your situation.

My harness can be released front and rear in split second to prevent accidents, but mine are never secured until I sense the animal is ready to stand quietly.

It would be wonderful for me to be able to see the method and set up you have.
Knowing you are a talented experienced horseman to begin with makes me smile when I think of the animals you have helped.

my 2 cents worth

[Rick Burten]

Hey you harness guys, how would ya fix this guy? He's a bit bowlegged!:)

What a croc(sic) Gary. Sheesh, if you want to straighten out those legs, you need to get him some gators(sic) to hold his Easy Boots in place.

At least he probably won't need any additional traction devices added to the package........

[HoustonFarrier]

This thing I do different is teach the horse to pick up his leg.
So do stocks...on some. I've had over the years, probably half-a-dozen horses "graduate" out of the stocks. It *can* be a good learning experience for the horse.

To many folks FORCE animals into stocks and traumatize the animal and then you have stocks shaking and rocking and even to a point where some stocks have flipped over with the horse in them.

Those are folks lacking in many things.....

I am against folks using these venue's on any horse without the skilled knowledge of what they are doing
Amen brother(but I DO get allot of work because of that:D)

It would be wonderful for me to be able to see the method and set up you have.
I've got a 3yo Shire mare at my place now that I would LOVE to see you work on...she's been kicking my *** for the last 3 months. I still don't have shoes on her yet, but I *can* trim her now..so we are making progress! She's one of the very few who absolutly will NOT go in stocks. She drives like a dream, it only took me a week to get her in harness....but touch her ears or feet....and all bets are off !!!

I have one light horse, an old OTT, who is a nightmare to work on. I am the ONLY farrier who can/is willing to work on him in SE Texas:p. Ropes mean nothing to him. I have to put him in the stocks AND sedate him with dermosedan. LOL

I've got a zillion questions on things not covered on your CD. I'll have to write you a long email one night.

Keep up the good work, stay safe !

Steve

[Mark_Gough]

Hi Bruce,
When will you be in Ohio? I'd love to attend your clinic.
Denise

Denise and others who have asked.

The Ohio clinic Bruce has mentioned is intended to happen this year at my facility in Southwest Ohio. I had asked Bruce earlier if he would be willing to visit and share his knowledge and experience. He has graciously agreed so I'm working to develop an attendee list and ascertain costs that will need to be covered in Bruce's behalf.

I'm making interest inquiries as I visit with each of my clients and asking some of the local horsemen and women. I'll provide a few horses for Bruce to work on including at least one or two who could represent some level of 'interesting & entertaining' challenge.

We haven't set a date yet but I had suggested a September clinic during the weekend.

Facility includes an indoor arena so Bruce will have lots of room to work and we'll do the clinic rain or shine.

Parking is likely the limiting factor with space for perhaps 25 vehicles, depending on weather.

My facility is limited to 11,000 square feet of arena and work areas. If interest exceeds space, I may move the clinic to my neighbors facility. They can park 75-100 and have around 30,000 sq. ft. of arena/barn space under roof.

If you believe you would like to attend the clinic please let me know so I can add your name to the list.

More to come as we flesh out the details and a huge thanks to Bruce for his help and willingness to visit and teach.

Best Regards,
Mark

[HoustonFarrier]

Every year, we put on a clinic for owners, geared at basic draft horse husbandry, driving, training, etc. Here are a few pictures from this years seminar of how I use ropes for some real basic foot handling. Depending on the horse, I may use a surcingle, or I may not. In this case, I did not. This particular horse WAS one that when I started with him, needed stocks. He "graduated" from stocks to standing. Now, I don't even need ropes when working with him.

Front Foot
http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/43732/2725769650053248425S200x200Q85.jpg

Hind Foot forward
http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/14344/2886781860053248425S200x200Q85.jpg

Hind foot back
http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/35598/2890276830053248425S200x200Q85.jpg

Steve

[Red Amor]

Gday Guys

Hey Bruse would you give me a price to send a disc to me in Tasmania Australia
Red Amor
15 Packers Road
Huonville
Tasmania
Australia
7109
cheeres olson

[ErinC123]

how about you pay for me to bring it to you?
I have always wanted to go there.

;)

[Red Amor]

BLOODY OATH WHY NOT AY
cheap at arf the price yeah ;)

[vthorseshoe]

Steve. Great pictures.

Our concepts are similar, but our methods are different.

But that is so unimportant.
What is fantastic is folks have a chance to see two experienced persons work with drafts.

Teaching drafts what SHOULD have been taught to them when they were baby's.( this also goes for many riding horses)

You know as well as I do that there are always going to be some animals that can't be worked with.
But it is my contention that they are few and far between.
These animals usually have been goofed up by folks with granduous ideas and little skill.

Perhaps one day I can make it to Texas and we can work on some drafts.
I would enjoy watching you work a draft and know why you do what you do.

[HoustonFarrier]

These animals usually have been goofed up by folks with granduous ideas and little skill.
Ain't THAT the truth, Reverend !!!!

Perhaps one day I can make it to Texas and we can work on some drafts. I would enjoy watching you work .
No...I'll enjoy watching YOU work on 'em :p

know why you do what you do
If you figure it out....tell me:D

You're always welcome here. You'd have to bunk with a few Mastiffs...but they do share the bed and will keep you warm at night !

Steve

[DeniseMc]

If you believe you would like to attend the clinic please let me know so I can add your name to the list.

Hi Mark,
Count me in!
Denise

[vthorseshoe]

Red I will check when I stop at the post office.

I believe it might work on goats that butt bent over farriers , :D

Wish you were over here. I am getting more interested in learning to play golf.

will private email you with info.

Bruce

[Red Amor]

Oye your a lovely bloke olmate

Id like to be over there for a while to

be a lot of fun learning from you Fellars
the golfings good helps keep my weight down just gotta give the smokes away :o

[Ron Oldenbeuving]

You might want to do a bulk run to Oz Bruce.

Could you give me a price for delivery to

R.J.Oldenbeuving
163 Dawkins Road
Lewiston
South Australia
5501

Hey Red, now I know where to go roof rocking the next time in over on Tassie. ;)

[Red Amor]

03 62 642000 or 0408 348 232 sing out we'll have a beer yeah , bring ya bag a bats or I can lend you a set
Bewdy

[vthorseshoe]

Red and Ron;
The post office looked at your address and told me it would cost me $3.00
to ship the DVD to you.
Now this includes buying a postal bubble bag to send it in.

I am sorry to take so long getting back to you both.
I have been getting home after 8 p.m. at night the last two weeks.
I got home early today, 5:30 p.m. and then at 6:30 p.m. i had to go out to do 3 more horses before calling it a night. :rolleyes:

[Phil Armitage]

What I am impressed with the most about Bruce is his ability to move fast and with a purpose to accomplish the shoeing task, however slow down and be gentle when in contact with the horse. This is a difficult thing for the human brain and body to do. He can toggle his energy on and off on the fly. Something I am trying to keep in mind as I work on sensitive/nervous horses and have to get the job done in a timely manner.

Hey Bruce thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience and doing so in a respectful manner. Your not just considerate of the dignity of the horse you also do the same with people. Your a great role model and your voice is in my head when I start to loose my cool with a horse or person.

Your definitely looking slimmer, keep up the good work.

[ohiobred]

hey it's my first post. i am a newer farrier from northern ohio and would to find out when and where u would be putting on that clinic? i would like to attend if my shedule is open.

thanks
jeremy

[vthorseshoe]

Go further down on the bulleting board where it discusses upcoming clinics.

Look for clinic with Bruce Matthews and you will find mark has posted all the info you will need concerning the clinic.

Thankyou for your interest.

Bruce

[AussieMal]

Red and Ron;
The post office looked at your address and told me it would cost me $3.00
to ship the DVD to you.
Now this includes buying a postal bubble bag to send it in.

I am sorry to take so long getting back to you both.
I have been getting home after 8 p.m. at night the last two weeks.
I got home early today, 5:30 p.m. and then at 6:30 p.m. i had to go out to do 3 more horses before calling it a night. :rolleyes:

Busy couple of weeks Ron. I'd like one to. Postage would be the same as the other 2. Please can you email me the details to.

[vthorseshoe]

I haven't heard from Ron or Red as to whether they recieved their DVD's yet.
E-mail me your address and a check for $39.00 U.S. and I will send it your way.

[Red Amor]

Gday Brusester olson
Mate no Ihavent sent the dosh over to you yet so Im not expecting anything
Hope ya well n good olboy golfs the same as dhoeing keep ya head down n ya arse up good O

[vthorseshoe]

Well I mailed them out to you both from the Waterville post office here in Vermont.
If you don't recieve them for goodness sake let me know.

Bruce

[Red Amor]

Tar mate yeah
Ill sing out when it turns up ay
thanks olson