Promote heel expansion with overreaching

[TrakRider]

My gelding wore Natural Balance shoes for many years. They helped his breakover alot because he has arthritis in near every limb and he is a big bodied heavy warmblood with a big walk, but he also acquired a long toe, and underrun heels due to poor trimming. So my new farrier is trying to fix all this putting him back on regular shoes and trimming him short, encouraging the heel to grow. I'm told Natural Balance are ideally only supposed to be used temporarily.

However now my horse is overreaching and pulling his front shoes. My farrier is putting a little larger shoe on him to help support his heels and encourage them to spread and grow. All the toes of all four shoes are hammered (semi-rockered) round in the toe. My horse has seldom pulled shoes in the past but then they were usually fitted closer, or if the shoe was bigger, it was bevelled down to prevent grabbing.

On the hind end he has what my farrier calls 'mule heeled' shoes which seem to be working ok. He moves pretty well at the canter, but is having difficulty stepping through at the trot. Travels short and trips alot. He is a lower level dressage horse.

Any ideas I can take to my farrier that might help?
Thanks much!

[Phil Armitage]

The trim is the most important part, not the shoes. A shoe can increase breakover with a rolled toe, rockered toe or set back, however if the heels are left too long then they can contract regardless of the type of shoe.

[calshoer]

My gelding wore Natural Balance shoes for many years. They helped his breakover alot because he has arthritis in near every limb and he is a big bodied heavy warmblood with a big walk, but he also acquired a long toe, and underrun heels due to poor trimming.Then the natural balance shoes were not being applied to the recommended Natural Balance trim or fit . A huge part of NB is the trim, especially the trim in the back part of the foot. So my new farrier is trying to fix all this putting him back on regular shoes and trimming him short, AS the NB farrier SHOULD have been doing. encouraging the heel to grow. it is not correct to grow more heel. More heel will be weak heel and will also tend to shove the toe forward again.
It IS correct to trim off underrun, overgrown heels. *Short heels are healthy heels.* Long heels are weak heels and tend to crush under, creating the LOOK of short heels. I'm told Natural Balance are ideally only supposed to be used temporarily.Incorrect. If the entire NB protocol (NOT just the shoes) is applied CORRECTLY, it is a proven, everyday, permanent shoeing protocol that prevents the very problems your previous farier caused by improper trimming. Your horse basically was not getting natural balance shoeing, he was just wearing the shoes.There is a huge difference. However now my horse is overreaching and pulling his front shoes. No surprize since the point of breakover was moved forward on the foot. Now the horse can't get his front feet moving efficicently and get them out of the way of the hinds. . My farrier is putting a little larger shoe on him to help support his heels and encourage them to spread and grow. All the toes of all four shoes are hammered (semi-rockered) round in the toe. My horse has seldom pulled shoes in the past but then they were usually fitted closer, or if the shoe was bigger, it was bevelled down to prevent grabbing.All of tgat just answwred your question, Bigger shoes will not help sread the heels. Properly TRIMMING the heels , along with setting the breakover back where it belongs will help the heels spread. Abit of a rilled to is often not enoughh breakover if the beginning of the roll is more than an inch and an eigth forward of the frog apex, it is too far forward. Measure it.
On the hind end he has what my farrier calls 'mule heeled' shoes which seem to be working ok. He moves pretty well at the canter, but is having difficulty stepping through at the trot. Travels short and trips alot. He is a lower level dressage horse.Adding longer heel to the hind shoes will usually not help with shoe pulling up front.
Balancing the FRONT feet properly will help the most, and also balancing the hinds, trimming those heels back as well, with a bit of a set back or rolled toe to help prevent grabbing the fronts.
Any suggestions I can take to my farrier that might help? He may try a 'slipper' shoe next...with a bevelled edge. He makes all his own shoes.

Thanks much!Yes, I suggest finding someone who can do natural balance RIGHT.(not just nail on NB shoes to an incorrectly trimmed foot) )
I can't really help you, given the approach he is taking.
Its an entire different philosophy about the mechanics of what is going on.
Trying to change the fariers entire basis of his theory about heels and breakover is never going to work. Im my opinion. The whole approach needs to be different,(obviously, since so far it isn't working too well ) and you probably will not convince him of that without him totally quitting you .

[TrakRider]

Thank you both for responding so quickly. I hear what you are saying. However, I'm a little confused about one thing. My new farrier said my horse had crushed his heals and we need to encourage them to grow now. His toes were way long and he could not just change his angles overnight. It would take a while to get him up over his toe and off his heal more. (His first trim looked a world better as far as shortening the toe.) He said between his first and second shoeing the heels had grown a little bit which was good. Right now they are about a 1/4 inch long. Not much to trim. So maybe "underrun" was the wrong term? Calshoer when you say *Short heels are healthy heels.* ...is 1/4 inch healthy for a size 2-3 hoof?

I'm thinking of asking if my farrier will try a more rockered toe. Maybe that will help.

[Gary_Miller]

Right now they are about a 1/4 inch long. Not much to trim. So maybe "underrun" was the wrong term? Calshoer when you say *Short heels are healthy heels.* ...is 1/4 inch healthy for a size 2 hoof?This would all depend on where you are measuring from. A Picture for us to look at would be great.

Wish it was easier to find farriers who were qualified to apply them. Look on the NB web site.

[TrakRider]

Great idea. I will go out and take some pics tonight.--- (later) Unfortunately. the pics are way too big to post here. Thanks for all the input though.

[calshoer]

If you have photo editing software in your computer ( most do, mine is Microsoft Office picture editor) then just use your "open with" or the "edit pictures" option from your right click menu, and resize them to fit here. If you want to keep the oroginals at the larger size then make a copy and then edit the copy.

[Joey Aczon]

Shoeing overall dosen't look too bad to me, but the medial-lateral balance on the fronts looks a little suspicious to me. I think that I'd not have the hind shoes set back so far though, I think that might be your shoe pulling problem. I also might put a rocker on the front shoes, but that would be determined after seeing the horse walk before pulling the shoes and after a rough trimming.

how long since this horse was shod last?

[HoustonFarrier]

Is it just me....or does he appear to have a more "hind pattern-ish" front feet than what one would expect????? In that scenerio, you're going to almost certainly have a long breakover on the fronts.

Steve

[bumfoot SHOER]

Is it just me....or does he appear to have a more "hind pattern-ish" front feet than what one would expect????? In that scenerio, you're going to almost certainly have a long breakover on the fronts.

Stevesteve i think it was the way you were looking at the pictures that seam off to you. bryan

[Jake Whitman]

The trim is the most important part, not the shoes. A shoe can increase breakover with a rolled toe, rockered toe or set back, however if the heels are left too long then they can contract regardless of the type of shoe.Phil, I take back everything, negative ,I have said to you. Until you say something else ******.

[Jaye Perry]

Phil, I take back everything, negative ,I have said to you. Until you say something else ******.


I say the sane of you Jakey!!!:eek:

[Phil Armitage]

Phil, I take back everything, negative ,I have said to you. Until you say something else ******.

Thank you. I am trying to be good. But if the forum get boring I might have to jump in and get it going again. However next time I will try to use a thesaurus instead of offensive school yard language. :rolleyes::D