Hitting Ankles

[ASB_EQ_Gal]

Our 8 yr. old pinto ASB gelding has a problem. When he walks he crosses his feet almost directly in front of the other and sort of hits the inside of his ankles as he does so. He is not narrow chested and when he trots he opens up more. We have came to the conclusion that this may be the reason why he acts up sometimes...becuase he's getting irritated from the crossing.

Here are some videos of him doing so:

Side View:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mtJ-k8DH8M

Front View:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRxVzPeJjjE

If any of you have any corrective shoeing ideas we would really appreciate them.

Thank You
Shannon

[Bradley-1stChoice]

Q.1. Has he always been like this.

Also, get your camera person to get ahead, sit down and use a tripod,
use the zoom to get and keep the horse full frame.

Then walk the horse to the camera. To much motion.

[Rick Burten]

Your horse is doing what is called "rope walking" Rope walking is caused either by a toed-in conformation, or a base narrow conformation. From the video, it looks to me that he is base narrow. Regardless, the trim will have to be adjusted, the shoes fit "tight"on the inside of the hoof, and perhaps even a side weight shoe used to keep him from going to his fetlocks.

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

Its just his conformation. He's narrow.

And a horse doesn't have ankles - they're fetlocks

[PerformanceHorseshoeing]

Do you have any pics of his feet, close ups? From the side and from the bottom. X-rays? I think these would help now that I've seen the video.

[Eric Russell]

Rick's dead on.

[Jaye Perry]

Rick Burten-Your horse is doing what is called "rope walking" Rope walking is caused either by a toed-in conformation, or a base narrow conformation. .......


Could be or it could be nuerological in nature. Or it could be coffin joints or in the shoulder; rare but most rope walker up front have shoulder lameness~~~~ "it depends".

Not enough history to make a good assumption.

BTW, feet look great!

[Rick Burten]

Jaye,

I think the shoulder soreness/lameness issue is a manifestation of the base narrow conformation, and is secondary to the conformation problem.

[Brian Purrington]

The RF crosses the CL further than LF in comparison. I agree the horse is narrow, but the movement says more than just that IMO.

It'd be a fun one to work on. :D

[Eric Russell]

Regardless of the horses problem. If he's hitting his fetlocks. Farriers #1 job is to stop that from happening. Lateral support. And if need be lower the inside. Safe the medial branch.

[Brian Purrington]

Didn't mean to "fix" or not to "fix"..... Just noted the asymetrical travel.

Would a side weight ( as Rick mentioned ) really have enough influence on this horses way of going?

Just looking from knee down I'd be skeptical.... unless it was a monster weight.:eek:

[Gary Hill]

I would go sideweight shoe if it was me. Have had alot of success behind with them, this one would be a challenge to do, but not undoable I believe.

[Jaye Perry]

Rick Burten-,

I think the shoulder soreness/lameness issue is a manifestation of the base narrow conformation, and is secondary to the conformation problem



a possibility. Adams has good stuff on shoulders, again rare in most cases but movement looks it or a really fat person is riding the poor horse:eek::D

American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=circumduction&ia=ahd4) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/circumduction#sharethis) cir·cum·duc·tion http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fcircumduction) (sûr'kəm-dŭk'shən) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
n. The circular movement of a limb such that the distal end of the limb delineates an arc

[Jason Maki]

I am with the others, I would sweeten the medial heel, sideweight the lateral but alo add one heck of a roll from the midline of the toe all the way down the lateral branch.
Do you have any pics of the feet, from the front, side and back?
He looks like he is taking a sobriety test.
Jason

[cowboy_bc]

Hi all,

Wrap the legs as far down as you can and use bell boots.

Kevin

[tbloomer]

Horse is toe stabbing. What do hoof testers say about caudal foot?

[George Geist]

For benefit of Jack Mac who is unable to post himself but wants this added.

He says it sounds to him like the early onset of glaucoma. Call the vet and have the horse checked for it and rule that out first before doing anything else.

Evidently Jack's had some experience with this type of thing so just a post on his behalf until he can get back.
George

[vthorseshoe]

"Circumduction" What a great time and example to bring this word in to a conversation !! It gives the word more meaning and will be, may be retained in someones mind better because of its corrolation with this animals possible movement. Thanks Jaye !!

Gentleman. Here are some questions to what most of you have been suggesting.

Cowboy, your sugestion of boots and leg wraps will aid in masking the problem as far as possibly preventing torn or cut legs, BUT doesn't help correct, or contain the problem. (if it can be corrected)

Tom says possible toe stabbing, Rick says Rope walking, Jaye suggest nueroglogical a possiblity.
Some suggest weighted shoe or even a lateral extension. Sweeten the heel, roll the medial, safe the shoe. and even possible nuerelogical effects.

With so many of these suggestions coming from so many different farriers it would suggest that these are most likely the proper things to try until you find the one that will work on this individual animal.

I have yet to hear anyone suggest pulling the shoe's and trim this animal to reach his optimum of movement barefoot, then apply one of the above suggestions to "AID' in improving the remaining degree of the problem ?

It might take a few good trims to bring this problem into a more satisfactory situation.
I also would want to hear you foks say "start out with small mechanical adjustments and give the animal a chance to adjust to them over a period of time before making more adjustments to the shoe's. This problem, if it is conformational (base narrow, base wide and toes in neurological ?) means that "what ever adjustments you make at the hoof level" are going to cause stress at some other focal point on his leg, shoulder, knee, joints.
The degree of stress will depend on the degree of adjutment you make with your corrective measure.
We are "fix it right now" society and tend to forget that a lot of corrections need to be done over a period of times instead of the one initial visit. OWNERS need to be made aware of this and some farriers.

ALSO, in a case like this, if it is conformational, and this is a mature horse, these adjustments once made will have to be done from then on.

Is the owner clear on this ? Do they believe this is a permanent fix ?
Do they realize it may only be possible to make minor corrections due to the onset of additional stress else where ? Or will they, (like we see on this site so many times) go looking for another farrier to make this problem correct as they feel it should be in thier mind ? because they weren't made aware of this situation in a clear manner theycan understand ?

Just some thoughts I have while reading this post.
I know you all realize what I have stated, but lets not forget there are many lurkers and newbee's reading this and will jump at a chance to correct a horse they work on . Will they, can they do it right with only bits and piecs of information or do we need to be sure we spell it out clearly ?

We need to be very careful and be sure what we post is done so in a manner that if someone follows the suggestions they see here doesn't get them in trouble because it wasn't step by step explained.

I know here I go with over-kill again, but that is me. :rolleyes:

Good post this one is.

[Gary Hill]

I would like to see a video of the horse moving out at a trot and canter? My wife has a barrel horse that brushes at a walk wearing overreach boots, and you can hear the noise of them hitting at a walk. Any other gait and his feet land much ****her apart and do not hit or get close. Conformation is base narrow slightly toed out. He has been this way for as long as I have been shoeing him and that is about 20yrs now. Because he doesn't interfer when running I do my best to balance his feet so he lands flat, but at a walk with the boots on it will drive ya crazy!

[Joey Aczon]

From the descriptions given of the videos, (can't watch them here on dial-up) this one sounds like my mothers QH mare. Base narrow, toed in, (at fetlock) and club footed with a side of circumduction:)

I had her in NB's and never really liked her way of going and decided it needed adjustment so I did exactly what Bruce reccomended and got her going well barefoot. Then I matched the wear pattern in steel with a few adjustments. I fit an Xtra with a bold lateral heel, (not exactly what I'd call an extension but close) rockered the toe from the medial toe nail to the 2nd lateral, rolled the entire medial side from toe to heel quarter up to the crease and ground off about 1/4 on the medial side.

Limb wants to break forward, hoof wants to break forward, the only problem is that they face different directions, which in this case, is what causes the "circumduction".