toe clip question

[shoulderin]

My farrier uses toe clips on front and back shoes.
I think the purpose of such clips is to keep the shoe from
coming off easy.

question -
How deep should the notch in the toe be where the clip
is set?
It makes the nervous to see how deep my farrier sets the
clip - is actually sits below the outer hoof wall a little -
it is burned into the white line of the hoof - I questioned
him if he was setting it to deep - that I thought it
looked too deep - he said no - needed to be 1/8" deep -
but into the while line seems too deep to me (and it
looked deeper than 1/8".

question -
Will this clip damage my horses foot ? Should I ask
him to stop using the clip ? (he doesn't throw shoes)

[shoulderin]

Well - here is what I think about toe clips in general -
they won't allow the breakover to be placed where
it should be on a horse that needs breakover placed
behind the white line -

they are not necessary at all - (I think they may
hold the shoe on better - but my horse doesn't throw
shoes - he is reset every 4 weeks
- they look damageing

Any one agree with me or am I wrong -
I think I should tell my farrier not to use them -
Anyone out there want to enlighten me on toe clips
and if my opinion of them is wrong or right?

[fairweatherforge]

If your using toe clips and you want to get the shoe back, your gonna have to cut it into the white line. I wouldn't be to worried considering when the shoes are nailed on the nails actually start in the white line. Your horse is reset every 4 weeks. Why all of a sudden are you so alarmed? New Farrier?

[John Barney]

I think clips are a tool to use in the same manner as trailers, heartbar , eggbar, wedges, pads, etc. etc. If they are not needed why use them. I have a customer that always had one horse clipped. When I ask if he had a problem keeping shoes they said that was just the way the old farrier did him. After a few shoeings with no clips and no lost shoes they said I was the only farrier to shoe him without him walking sore for a few days. The bottom line is it is your horse and you should not have clips, and pay the extra price for it, if you don't want them.

JB

[shoulderin]

Eric -
Well - alarmed is probally too strong a word - I am worried
that he sets the clips too deep - my old farrier used
toe clips also but he didn't set the clip in as deep as my
new farrier - I moved and had to switch farriers --
I had watched the old one do it many a time and he
doesn't set it into the white line ---
Right now my horse doesn't have the clips on the front as
my vet ordered the shoes set back under much more
than the farrier was doing -- so toe clips on front can
not be used when the shoe is set under like it is - he
has keep the shoes on fine -- but the farrier still
puts them on the back -- the horse dances when he
burns the toe clip in and it looks red and burned in
too deep - I was very concerned and told the farrier
but he says its ok -- He is probally right - I just wish
he would set it in shallower if he wants to use toe clips --

The whole thing just got me to thinking that he
probally doesn't need the clips at all - he doesn't lose
shoes becuase I have him reset before anything grows
out too much or gets lose - every 4 weeks like clock work
to make sure things stay right -

[shoulderin]

John - thanks -
I think you confirmed what the I think the purpose of
a toe clip is - to keep the shoes on. If there is
another purpose I don't know what it is . Since my
horse is not losing shoes on the front without clips
I just may tell my farrier to not use them anymore -

However- my past experience with farriers is that
they don't take kindly to this type of "suggestion"=
the ones I have and all my friends in the dressage
show world have are very uppity and don't appreciate
a client acting like they know what they want/need.
I have learned to tread lightly -- the better the farrier
it seems the less receptive they are to clients
who want to change things (like not letting put toe clips
on) - is it worth my farrier getting
****ed and telling me if I know how to do it then I
can do it myself --?? -- Jeez - I have Ph D in engineering
and I do research for NASA but yet I have to act "******" to make the farrier feel good -
How is that for irritating.

The point is I have to make my farrier think not
using the toe clips is his idea or he will be upset.Why I
don't know - he gets $160.00 each time he sets shoes so you would think the money would keep him happy.

[Phil Armitage]

If you are concerned with the toe clips then I would tell him. Personaly I do not like or use toe clips. Just for the breakover reason. I also do not like the notch that has to be made and how deep they have to be burned in. I perfer side or qaurter clips when I need clips. Everyone is different and has there favorite methods. Another Farrier reshod one of my customers horses once at a boarding barn and burned a toe clip into a nice strong hoof and it really ****ed me off, he should have reshod the horse the way I did it. If he does not respect your concerns then look for another Farrier, as Trump would say, "Your Fired".

[John Barney]

If your farrier feels ****** because you tell him you don't want clips on the shoes, I think there could be other issues as well. Might come up later. You really don't have to give him a reason, just say no clips please. The only reason I would question a customer is if they wanted me to do something that I knew would harm the horse. I had a fella tell me one time that i had missed some nail holes. This was on a two year old that was untamed and I shod him while he was knocked out getting gelded. I explained why I normally only used the first three nail holes but he said he would rather have nails in all the holes. Yes sir, and I drove in eight more nail. This is a customer relations job as much as it is caring for horses feet. Good luck.

JB