Navicular In Only One Hoof?

[Paintaloosa]

sorry, accidentally posted this on wrong forum!! Here is the post where it belongs.

Had the vet out yesterday as my horse has gotten progressively lame over the past two weeks. 11 year old paint x appy gelding, good sized feet, shod front and hind, never a lame day in his life until two weeks ago. For the past two weeks i have been treating it like an abcess with no results. Vet came yesterday and did hooftesting, said he was sore all the way around the hoof, took xrays and said that there were changes in the navicular bone. This is only on his left front. She blocked his heel on that foot and he came almost completely sound. No lameness/pointing or anything in right front. I always thought that navicular was bilateral and he doesn't seem to fit the "profile" of a horse that would be prone to navicular. He has always been ridden lightly, and correctly, never on hard ground, has had excellent farrier work his entire life (I have owned him since he was 3) and he has good feet (according to my farrier). On a hunch, I had the farrier put egg bars on him last week and it made almost no difference. I would love and really appreciate your opinions!! My vet is sending the xrays to a "leg" vet today to get his second opinion. Thank you!!!!!

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Paintaloosa in gray, deletia

Had the vet out yesterday as my horse has gotten progressively lame over the past two weeks. She blocked his heel on that foot and he came almost completely sound. No lameness/pointing or anything in right front. I always thought that navicular was bilateral...

Most forms of heel lameness are usually, but not always, bilateral. Hopefully, it's just an unresolved subsolar abscess that'll get progressively worse until it blows out or is relieved.

[Paintaloosa]

That would be great news if it was Tom!!! Now, is it true that there is no specific amount of time that an abcess takes to blow? Because we are over two weeks now and that is why I called the vet, because i figured with all the poulticing and soaking I had done, the abcess would of blown by now.

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Paintaloosa in gray, deletia

Now, is it true that there is no specific amount of time that an abcess takes to blow? Because we are over two weeks now and that is why I called the vet, because i figured with all the poulticing and soaking I had done, the abcess would of blown by now.

Abscesses march to the beat of their own drummers. "It depends" is the best answer I can come up with. :)

[caballus]

I've seen abscesses go as quickly as a few days and I've seen 'em go to 2 months ... the ones that go longer are ones with really tough hooves. One way to be more certain that it is an abscess would be to bute and if the bute has no effect then you can pretty much ascertain that its an abscess. That's just a general finding for most abscesses.

--Gwen

[Paintaloosa]

really? that is very interesting, because the bute seems to help a wee bit, but not alot, he certainly still shows signs of still being lame, even while on bute, just not as bad.

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

One way to be more certain that it is an abscess would be to bute and if the bute has no effect then you can pretty much ascertain that its an abscess. That's just a general finding for most abscesses.

--Gwen :eek:

Since when??? Why don't you think bute doesn't work as an analgesic when there's an abscess?

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

One way to be more certain that it is an abscess would be to bute and if the bute has no effect then you can pretty much ascertain that its an abscess. That's just a general finding for most abscesses.

--Gwen :eek:

Since when??? Is this another of your anecdotes?

Why do you think phenylbutazone doesn't work as an analgesic when there's an abscess?

[Paintaloosa]

I am curious too about the Bute becuase right now he is on stall rest, getting a "big" scoop of bute once a day and is barefoot on his sore hoof. Farrier has not returned my voicemails yet!! Grrrrr!!!! I tend to give them 24 hours grace, so he has another hour before I go postal :o)
Took him out last night and put him in his paddock. Hoof was very warm at the top and around the cornet band. Toe was normal temp. He hobbled, but hobbled at a faster pace. Definitely still favouring it. Almost like the bute did next to nothing for him, took the edge off, but nothing more. Like taking one tylenol instead of two, does that make sense?

[Paintaloosa]

shall I take some pictures tonight for you to look at? Would that be helpful?
Thanks!

[Paintaloosa]

Just got off the phone with the vet. She sent the x-rays off to the second opinion, should get a response back from him early next week. I asked her about the “bute not being effective if it is an abscess and she wholeheartedly agreed. She said that Bute typically does not work with abscesses and bruises. So here is keeping my fingers and toes crossed!! My farrier phoned back too. Apparently he is in Quebec right now, I am in BC and he won’t be back until Wednesday. My question is, do I put the shoe back on? Or do I leave it off to better treat it? I asked the vet what she thought and she was pretty much 50/50. On one hand, poulticing and treating the crack he has in the heel bulb is a heck of a lot easier without a shoe. On the other hand, he is always sore without a shoe, and since the Bute is not doing much…..do I leave him in his stall until the farrier gets back, or turn him out in his hogfuel paddock so he can gimp around? He is very quiet in his paddock and does not ever play up or run around. Your thoughts and opinions are as always, much appreciated. BTW, I was reading some of the other threads regarding misbehaving horses and tips or gifts for farriers and you had me snorting!! Not a very feminine thing to do at work, but nonetheless, thanks for the giggles. When my farrier first came to do my horse, I phoned him ahead of time, told him that I would be stopping by Starbucks on my way to the barn and he got a Grande white mocha, and a very well behaved ground tied horse in a brightly lit barn concrete aisle way with no dogs or kidlets around. Paid in cash too!!! I need to keep him happy don’t I?

[caballus]

Well, Thomas ... guess Paintaloosa's post answered your question about Bute and Abscesses ... ;)

[caballus]

On the other hand, he is always sore without a shoe, and since the Bute is not doing much…..do I leave him in his stall until the farrier gets back, or turn him out in his hogfuel paddock so he can gimp around? I would turn him out and let him be the judge of how much he wants to move around. The more the better as this will stimulate the abscess to move and blowout. Plus, the circulation to the hoof is going to be stimulated with movement and that's always a plus. I'd leave shoe off but then I'm a trimmer, not a farrier, so I'd take the other one off, too, and make sure the hooves were correctly trimmed. :p

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

I asked her about the “bute not being effective if it is an abscess and she wholeheartedly agreed. She said that Bute typically does not work with abscesses and bruises. And did she say why??

Because whilst it won't heal an abscess it sure will reduce the pain felt and because :

It markedly reduces prostanoid-dependent swelling, edema, erythema, and hypersensitivity to pain in inflamed tissues. Its principal use in the horse is for treatment of soft tissue inflammation and as analgesia.

So ask precisely what she meant and why because you've misunderstood.

To cure the abscess though you have to drain all the infective pus and bacteria.

[Paintaloosa]

No, she didnt' actually. It is very obvious that the Bute is not helping him. He is still very tender on that foot, and I have been using hay bags so he does not have to eat on the ground and bear weight on it. The heat in his hoof seems to be more localized now, instead of being all around the upper hoof and cornet band, it is only warm on the inside upper part. Hopefully that means the abscess is moving. Spoke to another farrier today, as mine is away, and he is very experienced. He is going to come out on Monday to see if my boy needs his shoe back on, if he can find the abscess etc. He did mention that changes in the navicular bone, as indicated on the xray, do not mean anything, becuase he is 11 and changes are normal. Up until today, I have not been able to find the abcess. I am assuming that it is going to blow out the cornet band, considering the way the heat is travelling. Soaking and poulticing tonight.

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

It sounds like if its an abscess, that the bacteria is indeed multiplying at such an extent and into an area that has no room for it. In that case its highly probable that no analgesia can be effective until the pressure can be alleviated.

You might want to give this posting a read :

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=54093&highlight=poultice#post54093

[caballus]

Because whilst it won't heal an abscess it sure will reduce the pain felt and because :

It markedly reduces prostanoid-dependent swelling, edema, erythema, and hypersensitivity to pain in inflamed tissues. Its principal use in the horse is for treatment of soft tissue inflammation and as analgesia.

So ask precisely what she meant and why because you've misunderstood.It sounds like if its an abscess, that the bacteria is indeed multiplying at such an extent and into an area that has no room for it. In that case its highly probable that no analgesia can be effective until the pressure can be alleviated.Well, there now, Thomas -- you've answered your own question! ;)

[Paintaloosa]

Had the second opinion farrier out today. This guy has been shoeing for 35 odd years and has seen lots. Spent almost an hour with my guy and diagnosed punture wound to the sole near the toe. He found my guy quite tender near the toe, did some exploring and found a teeny tiny punture wound. Went down as far as he dared (apparenlty farriers around here are not allowed to "draw blood" so he left it). But after he put the shoe back on and had opened up the hole a bit, it was like night and day. My horse was almost back to soundness! So I am back to poulticing and soaking while still keeping my fingers crossed for diagnosis from the second opinion vet who has the xrays. The farrier today also said that it (whatever it was) could have bruised the coffin bone, but I am hoping that something like that would show up on an xray, now that they know where to look. Might never know what he stepped on as he is only ever in his paddock by himself or his stall. Paddock is hog fuel and deep, might of happened on the walk between the stall and paddock, but the place is very clean with no garbage etc lying around. Thanks for everyone's advice, it has been so helpful.

[Traceysi001]

My horse "Ike" a 14 year old TB was just diagnosed with Navicular in one hoof - his left hoof actually. The vet, after taking x-rays and numbing the area to see if the shortness in stride subsided, diagnosed him with moderate to severe navicular remodeling. We injected both front hoofs and his back hocks (we do that occassionally for moderate arthristis), started him on Tildren, and are doing both adequan and legend to see what results we get. However I'm having trouble addressing the shoeing issue. I know so little about it, I can't tell if my vet or my shoer knows what they're doing. Neither has offered up any real specific suggestions.

Is there a place to start with the corrective shoeing? Is there a certain protocol to follow as you explore different options. If you had a horse with navicular remodelling, what would be the first thing you would try?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[calshoer]

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