Remedial shoeing - what do you think? [Archive] - The Farrier & Hoofcare Resource Center Forums

Paddy Jo

07-11-2007, 10:55 AM

History:

Two months ago horse was competing and doing well in dressage but always been more difficult on left rein. Started feeling 'not right', no sign of external trauma/swelling/heat. After couple of box rests still 'not right'. First vet unable to locate lameness and suggested having horse re-shod (normally shod every 5 weeks). Pads fitted to front feet as thought there may be heel pain. To complicate matters horse (unusually) spooked during shoeing, knocked over farrier's stand and trod on it, cutting frog of right fore! Badly lame and off work for 10 days. Brought back to work but still 'not right' and also still lame on right fore.

Took to second vet who did thorough examination. Took set of x-rays of all four feet and recommended radical change in shoeing.

There are several x-rays so will attach in several stages....

Paddy Jo

07-11-2007, 10:58 AM

I have attached photos of the newly shod horse (4 days ago). She was desperately sore after shoeing and this didn't get any better after two days so spoke to vet who questioned why the farrier had put pads on the front feet especially as she was known to have bruised her frog. Yesterday the farrier removed the pads and the horse, though much better, is still sore.

I would be interested in opinions of the shoeing as I am surprised how uncomfortable the horse is and for how long - when first shod she looked like a laminitic case. Whilst she is much more comfortable since having the pads removed she still walks as though there is pain in the toes. Is this to be expected?

calshoer

07-11-2007, 11:09 AM

In the hind feet, the serious negative plamer angle is the biggest issue... how was the horse in the hind end after the wedge pads were added?
AS to the front hooves, changes in the trim would have been more important than changes in the type of shoe or adding a pad.
Yes, a wedge pad could be helpful because the coffin bone angles are a bit low, but should be used ONLY if the HEELS of the foot were correctly trimmed first . However we can not see the heels under the shoe here, so that is difficult to evalute. Another factor could be if the impar ligament was sore from the low coffin bone angles and long toes. Possible pain in that area should have been evaluated with hoof testers used over the frog. If positive to hoof testers there, the frog support pads may have placed too much pessure over the frog, causing increased discomfort in that area. A regular plain wedge pad without frog support may have ben a better choice.

In the "before pictures the biggest problem I see is obvious medial lateral imbalance, which would certainly contribute to coffin joint and/or collateral ligament pain, either of which would make the horse lame especially in the turns. If the trim balance not corrected, all the wedge or support in the world is not going to help.

Patty

Paddy Jo

07-12-2007, 06:13 AM

Hi Patty

thanks for your response. Regarding hind leg - since having the front pads removed she is visibly more comfortable but I feel the swing phase of her stride is different behind - almost as if she swings the leg slightly outwards and forwards. The same with her front feet I feel she doesn't move normally -her leg seems to swing very stiff and straight almost as if she avoids rolling over on the toes.

I've posted a couple of photos of her right fore to show the heel. The farrier acknowledged that the balance isn't quite correct but wanted to get the horse more comfortable again. His plan is to put her in bar shoes at the front next time.

I must admit that my confidence is crumbling - surely a good farrier would have seen the error of his ways much earlier than this and before the hind feet started showing evidence of reverse rotation? How were the problems with the medial lateral balance in the front not seen?

Does anyone care to put in a good word for my farrier?!

Rick Burten

07-12-2007, 08:14 AM

Does anyone care to put in a good word for my farrier?!
Well, at least he seems honest and willing to take responsibility for his work.

So, lets look a few things. You've had two vets evaluate your horse. One couldn't figure out what the problems are, and the second, found somethings and prescribed a shoeing protocol. Did the farrier follow the protocol? For if he did, then the "radical change in shoeing" is enough to cause some very serious lameness.

Next we add the injury to the frog to the mix. Not the farrier's fault, but something he took into consideration and tried to deal with.

Also I am surprised how poorly aligned the feet are in x-rays
Since the farrier doesn't have x-ray vision, he is not privy to the same information. He has to go by what he sees externally. Since we have no photos of what the feet looked like externally at the time they were radiographed,we really don't know what the farrier was or was not seeing. We also don't know the training or experience this farrier has.
Two months ago horse was competing and doing well in dressage but always been more difficult on left rein.
What level and what scores? What have the Judge's comments been. especially when the horse is on the left rein? How long have you been getting those comments?
His plan is to put her in bar shoes at the front next time.
Why? And "just because" is an insufficient answer.
surely a good farrier would have seen the error of his ways much earlier than this and before the hind feet started showing evidence of reverse rotation?
It depends. Since we have no idea of how long the hind feet have had this condition, and we don't know anything about the farrier, we can't necessarily comment on that. Since the vets seem to have missed it too, it would appear that the 'team' may not be fully ready for varsity play.
Also how did he not see the problems with the medial lateral balance in the front.
Why not ask him instead of us?

hoofinit

07-12-2007, 01:38 PM

Is it just me or is that heel way crooked?

Heavy_Horses

07-12-2007, 05:26 PM

What about this?

Heavy_Horses

07-12-2007, 05:29 PM

In the "before pictures the biggest problem I see is obvious medial lateral imbalance, which would certainly contribute to coffin joint and/or collateral ligament pain, either of which would make the horse lame especially in the turns. If the trim balance not corrected, all the wedge or support in the world is not going to help.

Patty

Oops.... I didn't see that Patty, but I made you a nice illustration.

Troy

Paddy Jo

07-14-2007, 06:06 AM

Hi - in response to Ricks comments...

So, lets look a few things. You've had two vets evaluate your horse. One couldn't figure out what the problems are, and the second, found somethings and prescribed a shoeing protocol. Did the farrier follow the protocol? For if he did, then the "radical change in shoeing" is enough to cause some very serious lameness.

I don't see any inconsistency here - the first vet is not as specialised as the second and said that if she didn't improve after been re-shod then he would have to refer the case as she wasn't lame enough to block.

Since the farrier doesn't have x-ray vision, he is not privy to the same information. He has to go by what he sees externally. Since we have no photos of what the feet looked like externally at the time they were radiographed,we really don't know what the farrier was or was not seeing. We also don't know the training or experience this farrier has.

It is at this point I get really confused. I would regard a good farrier as a foot specialist and one that can judge pretty well how to balance a foot by looking at it externally. If not, then shouldn't all farriers be recommending that the owners provide them with a set of x-rays before and after? Also the second vet was talking about 'reverse rotation' even before he saw the results of the x-ray so he must have had his suspicions lin the first place.

He is a qualified farrier (Diploma of the Worshipful Company of Farriers) with several years experience.

I had to call my farrier out again yesterday as the horse was non-weight bearing on the left hind. He has removed the shoe and wedge and this morning she is much better. Seems that the wedge was putting too much pressure on her soles.

My farrier seems to have the best intentions for the horse but I am wondering whether he is out of his depth here because virtually everything he has done has caused the horse even more discomfort.

I haven't had a straight answer why he is going to put her in bar shoes at the front next time. I would greatly appreciate someone explaining what the possible reasons for this could be so I can try and discuss again with him next week.

Brian Purrington

07-14-2007, 07:29 AM

It is at this point I get really confused. I would regard a good farrier as a foot specialist and one that can judge pretty well how to balance a foot by looking at it externally. If not, then shouldn't all farriers be recommending that the owners provide them with a set of x-rays before and after? Also the second vet was talking about 'reverse rotation' even before he saw the results of the x-ray so he must have had is suspicions looking at the horse in general.

Some farriers do ask for rads on all horses when first starting them, some only the ones that look "suspicious". It's not practical to have x-rays done before and after each shoeing but having a starting point to go off of is a good thing.

"Reverse rotation" is actually negative or zero palmer angle which in some cases is identifiable by visual presentation (bullnosing of the dorsal wall) Conversely, bony column alignment, joint spacing, condition of P3, navicular bone quality and M/L balance issues within the hoof capsule are not something that can be "easily" identified without rads.(IME)

I had to call my farrier out again yesterday as the horse was non-weight bearing on the left hind. He has removed the shoe and wedge and this morning she is much better. Seems that the wedge was putting too much pressure on her soles.

???? Wedges should not pressure soles unless the applied to a flat soled foot or overfilled with an improper packing for the situation. If in fact the horse has negative palmer angle, wedging would exacerbate any lameness due to the increased pressure caudally in the foot and the "changed positioning" of ligaments. (Unless the heels needed to be trimmed back to viable horn) A fill under a wedge would be like having a baseball in your shoe. Proper protocol would include lateral shots to confirm position/angulation of P3 in relation to the ground and an appropriate frog support setup in the form of a full support pad, a heart bar, mushroom shoe or a frog prosthetic of some form. That being said there may be some "Dialing in" to get the correct amount of pressure for the horse. Depending on the severity of the pathology and the tolerance of the horse, some can take no pressure some can take all the weight you give 'em.

Negative palmer angle horses have a failing digital cushion. Applying pressure to the cushion in a broad way (flat/wedge pads with fill/pour ins) will possibly lessen the chances of "rehabing" it because the blood supply will be restricted thus causing more failure. Direct frog support will encourage circulation and increase blood supply thus "rejuvinating" the digital cushion while promoting correct positioning of the bony column.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/wellshodhorses/EL-T%20rads/EL-Tlefthind.jpg

Here is one I am working on, I'll post new rads in about 12 weeks.

I haven't had a straight answer why he is going to put her in bar shoes at the front next time. I would greatly appreciate someone explaining what the possible reasons for this could be so I can try and discuss again with him next week.

I'm going to guess that "bar shoes" = "support" and "support" means more consistant column alignment. (from his perspective)

If the horse is negative plane, making the HPA "look" right will not fix the problem. The NPA has to be addressed with bony column correction. The only way to do that is to have rads and apply support in the correct positioning.

Regards,

PS (edit) Just looked at your original posts and rads.... Zero PA on both front and Neg PA on both hinds.....

calshoer

07-14-2007, 09:46 AM

Negative palmer angle horses have a failing digital cushion. Applying pressure to the cushion in a broad way (flat/wedge pads with fill/pour ins) will possibly lessen the chances of "rehabing" it because the blood supply will be restricted thus causing more failure.Says who? That makes no sense because pour in's as well as IM are flexible and will compress ,then yield as the horse loads and unloads his foot . They should *increase* circulation. Direct frog support will encourage circulation and increase blood supply thus "rejuvinating" the digital cushion while promoting correct positioning of the bony column.Some negative palmer angle horses are very sore in their impar ligament and therefore direct frog support over that area of the frog (the center) can make them really sore if it is used in the first the****utic shoeing.
Patty

Brian Purrington

07-14-2007, 12:03 PM

Says who? That makes no sense because pour in's as well as IM are flexible and will compress ,then yield as the horse loads and unloads his foot . They should *increase* circulation.

Patty, I am speaking from My experience. Not trying to debate, just relaying "real time obsevations". In my post I metioned that improper amounts and/or texture/hardness is a factor and some "dialing in" is typically needed.

Some negative palmer angle horses are very sore in their impar ligament and therefore direct frog support over that area of the frog (the center) can make them really sore if it is used in the first the****utic shoeing.
Patty

Again, as I said... :rolleyes:

That being said there may be some "Dialing in" to get the correct amount of pressure for the horse. Depending on the severity of the pathology and the tolerance of the horse, some can take no pressure some can take all the weight you give 'em.

Ive noticed that the sole tends to morph a bit(spread out in directions I don't want it to) with the pour in and really it was only supporting the condition not correcting it. The soft pour in with a frog prosthetic is much more effective than just a fill. (IMO)

Just sayin' all cases are different and it seems like this one needs some "Dialin' in" :)

Since you are here, I'll get out of the sandbox....

Paddy Jo

07-14-2007, 02:07 PM

photos of the offending hind shoe. She still has the right hind shoe on but this isn't causing anywhere near the same problem.

By the way how do you get the image to show within the body of the message?

Brian Purrington

07-14-2007, 05:04 PM

Paddy Jo]photos of the offending hind shoe. She still has the right hind shoe on but this isn't causing anywhere near the same problem.
Where is the frog prosthetic? If there was none, I would guess therein lies the problem. Wedging will make the HPA look right, but no support to the frog just suspends the caudal portion of P3 further above the ground. It is still neg plane within the capsule.

By the way how do you get the image to show within the body of the message?
You have to use the (img code)

Paddy Jo

07-15-2007, 04:46 AM

.
Where is the frog prosthetic? If there was none, I would guess therein lies the problem. Wedging will make the HPA look right, but no support to the frog just suspends the caudal portion of P3 further above the ground. It is still neg plane within the capsule.

thanks Brian for your comments - I was a bit concerned about the amount of daylight that you could see under the frog from behind. So do you think it was the sole pressure or the lack of frog support that caused the severe lameness on the left hind - or both? Would my farrier have been better using something like the pads used on the front feet on the hind instead?

I have seen and read enough on this forum to convince me that I need to take her to another farrier. The second vet has recommended a farrier he works with regularly - I'll post another set of images once she has been re-shod.

This is a great forum and thanks to all for sharing your knowledge!

Brian Purrington

07-15-2007, 08:36 AM

thanks Brian for your comments - I was a bit concerned about the amount of daylight that you could see under the frog from behind. So do you think it was the sole pressure or the lack of frog support that caused the severe lameness on the left hind - or both? Would my farrier have been better using something like the pads used on the front feet on the hind instead?

Hard to say, without being there, what the issue was. Clearly it wasn't the right setup for the horse. In cases like this the farrier needs to be flexible enough to go back and adjust when necessary. Hoof testers go a long way in stuations like this. Mainly testing the frog to see how much pressure if any at all can be tolerated but also reading the sole as well. Then apply the package accordingly.

IMO your farrier might have been better off using a full support pad with a frog prosthetic similar to the ones used on the front. I agree with Patty on her concerns with the trim protocol, that being said I'm not there to see it in person. Every horse is different so, although the protocol for correcting a specific pathology is a specific concept, as farriers we have to be able to figure out the best way to apply the mechanics to acieve that concept depending on the expected use of the horse during a rehab. Personally I would take a horse like yours out of work for a 60 to 90 days to attempt the rehab. Unfortunately I don't have that choice in all cases.

Maybe your farrier hasn't dealt with this situation before. One thing you might consider is having him bring in a more knowledgeable (in this type patholohgy) farrier to assist him.

One thing to keep in mind is that the application of "theraputic" farriery is like "physical therapy" There is an injury to the "patient" that needs to be corrected, that injury did not happen (in this case) overnight. To expect the "doctor" to fix it overnight is not realistic.

goeslikestink

07-19-2007, 05:13 AM

can i ask you farrier a question please

in the photos the op has sent
the piccys show the horse with shoes on ok front feet

the shoe is shorter than the foot -- the foot is hanging over the edge at the front -- looks like to smaller shoes

surely thats not correct to correct the horses feet

sometimes i know that the foot can be have a little of plate showing to help the foot grow down into said plate(shoe) -

but surely this shoe is set to far back if not to short-
am learning --

Brian Purrington

07-19-2007, 07:04 AM

GLS,

It's hard to say from the picture, but the positioning of the shoe should facilitate proper breakover. Sometimes when dealing with a stretched toe we have to leave some hanging over to get the breakover right. I'm guessing this is what the attending farrier was going for.

The shoes look a bit broad in the toe/quarters to me and when they pulled the pads, they should have reshaped the shoe a bit or changed it all together (IMO). Heels look low and the toe is dubbed off instead of being beveled from the bottom. Makes for a terrible lookin' foot....

goeslikestink

07-21-2007, 04:13 AM

thank you that explains a lot to me

Paddy Jo

07-27-2007, 12:28 PM

Well second farrier has now shod her with eggbars on the front and wedges behind. Interesting his approach to the hind feet wasn't too disimilar to that used by farrier No. 1 but this time he has avoided any possible pressure on the soles by using a shoe with built in wedge (sorry don't know the technical names!). Horse altogether much happier but have been told by farrier No. 2 that it is going to be a fairly slow process.

Farrier No. 2 says that this shoeing aims to get the horse stable & comfortable and give time for the bruising to ease by minimising any pressure on frogs etc. She is to be re-shod again in 4 weeks time.

I would be interested in your views about the lack of frog support in the hind feet as this seems to go against much of what is written on this forum. I did query this with farrier No. 2 but he said that as a short term measure it was OK especially as the horse was so sore last time and there is evidently much deep bruising. He also said that is why he wants to shoe her again in 4 weeks time when he will most likely remove the wedges. Does this make sense?

calshoer

07-27-2007, 09:21 PM

I seriously disagree with the total lack of frog support in a wedge shoe that thick. The size of those wedges with no frog support is going to cause secondary crushing anfd bruising in the heel buttresses of the foot.

It is *easy* to apply frog support in the part(s)of the frog that NEED and can tolerate support to help maiontain an alignment of the coffin joint. And at the same time it is easy to prevent pressure on any parts that do not need or will not tolerate support.

Modern 'pour in' support materials make this process a cinch. Simply by damming off the parts that do not need support with a little dict tape and pouring the material in the back, the material can be placed over the very back of the frog only, kept totally off the sole and center of the frog.

This shoe as it is now will offer temporary relief, then eventually will cause secondary issues as the frog further proplapes downward and misaligns the coffin joint again, AND it will crush the heels of the foot more, causing heel buttress pain.
The problem could have been remedied simply with a shoe set to move the breakover point back, and a simple bar wedge pad across the back of the foot.
I dont understand why the farriers are making it so complicated, or going through the process of making these unnecessary fancy forged shoes. Its not rocket science.
Patty

Brian Purrington

07-27-2007, 09:49 PM

I have to agree with Patty.... Personally, I would have liked to see a frog support, but even pour in at the back of the foot would be better than what was done. I think this horse is headed for trouble.... JMO

Paddy Jo

07-28-2007, 04:58 AM

Brian Purrington

07-28-2007, 07:34 AM

Where is the frog prosthetic? If there was none, I would guess therein lies the problem. Wedging will make the HPA look right, but no support to the frog just suspends the caudal portion of P3 further above the ground. It is still neg plane within the capsule
Proper protocol would include lateral shots to confirm position/angulation of P3 in relation to the ground and an appropriate frog support setup in the form of a full support pad, a heart bar, mushroom shoe or a frog prosthetic of some form. That being said there may be some "Dialing in" to get the correct amount of pressure for the horse. Depending on the severity of the pathology and the tolerance of the horse, some can take no pressure some can take all the weight you give 'em.

Negative palmer angle horses have a failing digital cushion. Applying pressure to the cushion in a broad way (flat/wedge pads with fill/pour ins) will possibly lessen the chances of "rehabing" it because the blood supply will be restricted thus causing more failure. Direct frog support will encourage circulation and increase blood supply thus "rejuvinating" the digital cushion while promoting correct positioning of the bony column.
I would say that a fill (not complete) only in the caudal portion of the foot would be similar to the frog support pad setup. I wasn't clear on this before and wanted to clarify.

This is my opinion of course...

None of us are there to see the situation first hand... Experience tells those who have responded to you that the horse needs some form of frog support. That being said, everone is different and opinions vary.

How has your horse responded to the protocol?

Mike Ferrara

07-28-2007, 08:12 AM

Oh dear! that was the response I was fearing!!

I am confused!! Is providing frog support a contentious issue?

It would seem not from the response on this forum but on the other hand it would seem that it is by the fact that two unrelated farriers (the second comes with a VERY good reputation) have treated my horse very similarly i.e. wedging with NO frog support.

I don't think that heel support as a general principle is a very cntentious issue but it sure can be when you get down to the specifics of when and how much.

Is there a case to be made that wedging without frog support is a necessary temporary measure (i.e. 4 weeks) and that the sort of complications that Patty suggests might occur are unlikely within this timeframe?

I think you answered that yourself Horse altogether much happier but have been told by farrier No. 2 that it is going to be a fairly slow process.

Farrier No. 2 says that this shoeing aims to get the horse stable & comfortable and give time for the bruising to ease by minimising any pressure on frogs etc. She is to be re-shod again in 4 weeks time.

Apparenty your farrier didn't think it was a good idea to add more support at this time. Maybe I missed something in the thread but I didn't see anyone ask anything about the ground the horses is usually on or how the horse does react to hoof testers. Especially if the horses is usally on deep footing, there may very well be "eneough" as is. Do we even know the actual cause of the condition..ie, what is it that's really being treated?

Could someone also explain how much contact is ideal between the frog and ground surface.

As you probably already notice some people are happy to tell you what is ideal. Real world conditions sometimes differ from their ideal though and a wise man once said "What works, works"

[As a side note my horse had both back shoes removed several days before the latest shoeing and in the end was as comfortable as you would expect of a horse that is never barefooted - so this would suggest that she is capable of withstanding some frog pressure]

It sure could be a hint of some kind.

Would the fact that my horse is being treated in the UK rather than the USA explain the differences in approach?

You're not look at the difference between treatment in the UK vs the US. you're looking at the difference between the treatment applied by an apparenty qualified experience farrier who actually has his hands on the job and his reputation on the line vs. the opinions of a couple of people on the internet who have only seen a couple of pictures and have absolutely nothing at stake.

My advice is to pick a vet/farrier team that you have some confidence in and give them a chance to do their job...or just write the shoeing perscription yourself (Most farriers over there should be good enough mechanics/technicians to build it the way you want it) or maybe one of the internet opinions you've received would take a trip to the UK and show everybody there how it's done.

Brian Purrington

07-28-2007, 09:29 AM

Hope I'm not coming off as Mike has described... Just trying to answer questions as asked according to my personal experience. I have maintained all along that we are not there and can't really say for sure based on a few pictures.

Mike Ferrara

07-28-2007, 10:24 AM

I have maintained all along that we are not there and can't really say for sure based on a few pictures.

You have made that clear and I think you were correct in doing so.

calshoer

07-28-2007, 04:41 PM

Is there a case to be made that wedging without frog support is a necessary temporary measure (i.e. 4 weeks) and that the sort of complications that Patty suggests might occur are unlikely within this timeframe? Yes that is kind of what I meant but I have seen secondary problems develop in a very short time (days) with this kind of shoeing if the foot is on firm ground all the time with nothing to gently fill and support nside the shoe .So if you let the foot fill with clean dirt, deep shavings bedding, whatever, it will help prevent the long term issues . But I certainly would consider some form of frog support at least over just the back portion of the frog next time.
With todays materials, the possibilities are numerous so the support can be regulated as to where it is placed on the foot and how firm or soft.
Patty

Paddy Jo

08-01-2007, 03:06 PM

Well I've had a long chat with my vet today who took my concerns seriously and discussed also with the farrier. He reassures me that the treatment they are following is the correct one. The farrier says that in his many years of practice he has NEVER come across prolapsed frogs in the hind feet -only the front. He also says that because he has removed so much excess toe and brought back the breakover on the hind foot there is far less weight on the caudal portion of the hind foot. This, together with the fact that (a) more weight is taken anyway by the front feet and (b) even more will be taken now that the horse is more comfortable on the front feet due to the eggbars - means that the actual weight carried on the caudal portion of the hind foot is much less now than several weeks ago. He assures me that the frogs are not prolapsed!

Over to you.....

Brian Purrington

08-01-2007, 03:27 PM

How has your horse responded to the protocol?

I asked this in an earlier post. I think the answer will tell you what you need to know. Whether it be now or later, is to see.

Paddy Jo

08-02-2007, 11:33 AM

I asked this in an earlier post. I think the answer will tell you what you need to know. Whether it be now or later, is to see.

Hi Brian

well the horse is stable just now. She looks perfectly happy turned out to grass not working (wouldn't we all!) but I'm not saying she is sound - the lameness is still evident - not in a straight line but when lunged. I guess asking for miracle cures would be too much.

The interactions I've had on this forum have been extremely useful as it has meant that I can go back and asked 'intelligent' questions about the treatment. I am still not convinced that wedges-frog support are better than wedges+frog support and I think my vet and farrier are aware of this so I would be very suprised if she is still in wedges in 3 weeks time.

Given the amount I have read about NPA and prolapsed frogs on this forum can I ask if anyone out there has come across this condition in hind feet?

Cheers

Paddy Jo

calshoer

08-03-2007, 08:26 PM

Given the amount I have read about NPA and prolapsed frogs on this forum can I ask if anyone out there has come across this condition in hind feet?I see it more often (and more serious) in hind feet than in fronts. Here is your own Xray of your horse's hind foot, a *classic example*. Patty

Paddy Jo

08-04-2007, 03:43 AM

Patty - yes there is no question that the hind has a NPA. I think my question was a little ambiguous and relates to prolapsed frogs specifically. I do apologise if I am labouring the point but I'd like to be absolutely clear about two things:

1. Are prolapsed frogs an inevitable consequence of NPA? i.e. NPA = prolapsed frogs.

2. Do prolapsed frogs occur in hind feet despite there being less weight carried behind?

Thanking you for your patience!

Also I have noticed a bruise on the left hind that developed several days after the first set of shoes + wedges were put on (about 3 weeks ago). Probably not that clear from the attached photo but position of bruise shown by arrows. Is this anything to worry about?

Rick Burten

08-04-2007, 09:15 AM

I do apologise if I am labouring the point but I'd like to be absolutely clear about two things:

1. Are prolapsed frogs an inevitable consequence of NPA? i.e. NPA = prolapsed frogs.
More often than not.
2. Do prolapsed frogs occur in hind feet despite there being less weight carried behind?
Yes.
Also I have noticed a bruise on the left hind that developed several days after the first set of shoes + wedges were put on (about 3 weeks ago). Probably not that clear from the attached photo but position of bruise shown by arrows. Is this anything to worry about?
Could be the consequence of several different things. Coronary jamming, a whack against something, etc. So long as the bruising is not repeated and the horse remains sound, I would not worry about it.

calshoer

08-04-2007, 10:47 PM

1. Are prolapsed frogs an inevitable consequence of NPA? i.e. NPA = prolapsed frogs.

2. Do prolapsed frogs occur in hind feet despite there being less weight carried behind?

Thanking you for your patience! Ditto Rick. Patty

Paddy Jo

08-07-2007, 12:32 PM

Thanks to all for the your clear answers.

Horse is to be re-shod in two weeks time so lets see what they come up with next.....

Jason Maki

08-22-2007, 02:38 PM

Brian,
I would gues he sank thru the wedging, excaserbating the negative angle.
Jason

Paddy Jo

10-12-2007, 01:33 PM

Well an up date is that the horse has in fact been sound behind now for a couple of months - but my problems are far from over! When assessed at the end of August she came up lame on the right fore (for those with a good memory this is the foot that she injured way back in June after standing on the farrier's tripod). We had hoped then that she had only bruised the foot but the lameness didn't resolve itself. She is only lame when circled on the left rein i.e. right fore on outside. Last week she had an MRI and this showed damage to the impar ligament. It is not clear whether the injury occurred as a result of the tripod incident or sometime in the field.

She has been shod by the resident farrier at the vet school (who by the way didn't seem to like the egg bars) who has put her in an ordinary pair of shoes with plenty of support at the heels. The MRI vet was NOT impressed with the horses feet - low heels and poor horn quality! So now she is on box rest with 2 x 20 mins walk exercise every day. The plan is to gradually increase the amount of exercise over the next 6 months or more. I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has experience of this type of injury, how best to manage the horse during the long road back to soundness and whether in fact anyone knows of a horse that has had a definitive diagnosis of impar ligament damage and has recovered to full soundess.

Paddy Jo