linda wilson
08-20-2004, 09:09 PM
hi-
i am a novice (though passionate) horse owner (little girl dream fulfilled) and have had my 14 year old arab gelding for 2 years. the first time i saw sunny he looked a little lame in the right front, but we all assumed it was the bad trim he had just gotten and he was ridden for two hours afterward by a very heavy (250 lb.) man in the mountains (ouch!). the lameness disappeared soon after (a week or so), but he has continued to be lame on and off since (half a dozen times in 2 years?), though not badly and just a couple of days at the most, per incident. i thought he might just be tender footed so had him shod for almost a year on his front feet only and still had a bout or two of mild lameness and took the shoes off. he was boarded (pasture only) at the beach - soft ground/sand etc. and ridden maybe once a week. his feet were nice and round and hard and we thought we had a good farrier. then sometime over the past 9 months his feet seemed to change. the farrier started having his apprentices do sunny's feet and they began to change shape, becoming less round. i finally moved him at the end of last year so he wouldn't have to go through a winter of mud up to his elbows again. i took me about 2 months to find a new farrier and during that time his back feet began to flare on the outside - pretty dramatically i might add. a vet said it was from the way he was standing (??).
i found a new farrier that i liked and he trimmed away the flares. about 8 weeks went by and i had him trimmed again and this time the farrier said he thought he had foundered at one time and showed me the white line wasn't the same on both feet. he suggested i get him tested for cushings, though he presented with none of the typical physical symtoms (crested neck, fatty deposits etc.).
we noticed he was lame a few days later (after an exhuberant run and buck play episode where he slid and almost went down) and brian (new farrier) said he would come by and check him out. he did and suggested i get him xrayed and have tests for cushings run. at that point we talked about calling my vet in, but he confessed that he would prefer working with another vet because if he and my vet disagreed then neither, in his experience, would concede and they would be stuck in a standoff with me having to arbitrate. i decided to just go to the local equine clinic for the cortisol rythym test and radiographs, since brian does most of the shoeing for them.
the radiographs showed a broken forward hoof pastern axis - no pedal osteitis, no rotation of the coffin bone. there was a slight subluxation in the joint between the pedal bone and the short pastern. he also had a tiny bone chip in the elbows (i think) of each leg. the clinic vet said that the broken forward pastern hoof axis was probably something he had as a colt and the same with the chips and that that is a common thing - my regular vet disagrees with that assumption and says it (the broken forward ) is likely from bad trimming/shoeing and as for the chips, who knows. sunny's blood work results showed his T3 was normal - his coritsol levels (with a cortisol rythym test) were at a 32-33% range. normal is considered 30% and under, so he is just barely out of normal range. his insulin was 4.8 and 5.2. - nothing was definitive. so the clinic vet diagnosed him as pre-cushingoid. she had my farrier shorten the toe and raise the heel and he put plastic glue-ons with the blue rubbery stuff in between.
i had my regular vet out to see sunny last week after discovering she was listed on the edss vet/farrier list (i kicked myself!) and she is pretty convinced that his laminitis is simply a case of bad shoeing. she said there are no visible signs of foundering on his hooves (which conflicts with what my new farrier says - i swear he said there were rings, but i couldn't see them either) and that they look heathy and the way they should - except they are not trimmed exactly the way she would like to see them trimmed,which is the "natural balance" method. she also said that sunny does not present any signs of metabolic laminitis - he is a good weight (though at the top of what he should weigh for not being worked or ridden) no fatty bulges, bumps etc. he took a long time, almost a year to gain the 100 or so pounds that he needed when i first got him 2 years ago - and that was adding lots of sweet feed and weight supplements and 3 or 4 flakes of alfalfa a day, so i would not necessarily say he is an easy keeper. he has since been on a regimen of 2 to 3 pounds of senior feed twice a day with one flake of alfalfa (depending on pasture conditions) in the am and timothy hay at night when he goes in his pipe corral (busy mouths are happy mouths!). he has a buddy and they graze and play on almost 2 acres of pasture during the day. he also gets herbal supplements for allergies and general immune system support as well as platinum plus, which has trace minerals in it.
so i am conflicted. i have a vet i like and trust that is pretty conservative as far as her approach to things (doing the least expensive, invasive thing to diagnose first and then going to the next step if no results are forthcoming) and she believes i wasted my money on all the tests i had done at my local equine clinic, which she says loves to overdo testing and usually comes up with the most expensive thing possible regarding treatment. she believes the broken forward hoof pastern axis can be corrected with proper trimming.
on the other hand i have a farrier i like - he is confident (some consider him cocky) and considered very good by other horse owners i know. and he was right - he and my vet did disagree. he said sunny had foundered and had rings on his hoof etc. that my regular vet and i did not see. what confuses me there is that he never said any of this the first time he did a trim on him. he did say he thought i should have him testing for cushings because he thought sunny looked like he a little "fat pad" by his hip. my regular vet disagrees. she said he is now a good weight but wants his feed cut back since he is not being worked or ridden at the moment.
so i guess the question is whom do i believe and go with. they are both obviously very strong in their opinions and believe they are right - and they are both very good at what they do. i just want sunny to be okay and want to do the least thing that will upset his routine and life.
in looking back i can see how doing xrays first would have been a less expensive way to start off and if something showed in the xray that might be the cause of the lameness and laminitis (and it did) - then the expensive blood tests might not have been necessary. my regular vet asked me if they did any nerve blocking first in the hoof first - they did not - she said that was a fairly inexpensive way to find out where the lameness might be originating. her suggestion is to have his shoes pulled in 3 or 4 weeks (the glue is coming out, but brian also put 2 nails in each shoe) and bute him for the first few days and then trim his feet in such a way as to make the foot wider at the heel and the band more even. she said brian did a good job and she would only change a couple of small things and really feels like his lameness is because of the way his feet have been done. his back feet look really long in the toe - still oval rather than round like they used to be. i believe he has really hard horn (hoof wall?) - every vet that has seen him has said the same thing as did brian, the farrier.
i recently purchased gene ovniceks videos and am hoping my farrier will be open to watching them. i like him very much and he really cut me a break on the shoes. i would hate to lose him - but sunny is more important and if i can't get him to do what i want then there will be no contest.
so all this to ask if it sounds as if my vet is right and could it be that the lameness is purely the result of bad trimming. can the broken forward (is there an acronym for this?? geesshh!) hoof pastern axis be corrected with correct and consistant trimming? i just am not sure where to go from here. i know you aren't vets, but you are skilled farriers with far more experience than most vets and i am inclined to trust the combined knowledge and experience that i have read online.
can you give me your opinions please? i hope i have given you enough (LOL!) information to come to some conclusion. all you are missing is MY blood type and social security number!
thanks so much,
linda
i am a novice (though passionate) horse owner (little girl dream fulfilled) and have had my 14 year old arab gelding for 2 years. the first time i saw sunny he looked a little lame in the right front, but we all assumed it was the bad trim he had just gotten and he was ridden for two hours afterward by a very heavy (250 lb.) man in the mountains (ouch!). the lameness disappeared soon after (a week or so), but he has continued to be lame on and off since (half a dozen times in 2 years?), though not badly and just a couple of days at the most, per incident. i thought he might just be tender footed so had him shod for almost a year on his front feet only and still had a bout or two of mild lameness and took the shoes off. he was boarded (pasture only) at the beach - soft ground/sand etc. and ridden maybe once a week. his feet were nice and round and hard and we thought we had a good farrier. then sometime over the past 9 months his feet seemed to change. the farrier started having his apprentices do sunny's feet and they began to change shape, becoming less round. i finally moved him at the end of last year so he wouldn't have to go through a winter of mud up to his elbows again. i took me about 2 months to find a new farrier and during that time his back feet began to flare on the outside - pretty dramatically i might add. a vet said it was from the way he was standing (??).
i found a new farrier that i liked and he trimmed away the flares. about 8 weeks went by and i had him trimmed again and this time the farrier said he thought he had foundered at one time and showed me the white line wasn't the same on both feet. he suggested i get him tested for cushings, though he presented with none of the typical physical symtoms (crested neck, fatty deposits etc.).
we noticed he was lame a few days later (after an exhuberant run and buck play episode where he slid and almost went down) and brian (new farrier) said he would come by and check him out. he did and suggested i get him xrayed and have tests for cushings run. at that point we talked about calling my vet in, but he confessed that he would prefer working with another vet because if he and my vet disagreed then neither, in his experience, would concede and they would be stuck in a standoff with me having to arbitrate. i decided to just go to the local equine clinic for the cortisol rythym test and radiographs, since brian does most of the shoeing for them.
the radiographs showed a broken forward hoof pastern axis - no pedal osteitis, no rotation of the coffin bone. there was a slight subluxation in the joint between the pedal bone and the short pastern. he also had a tiny bone chip in the elbows (i think) of each leg. the clinic vet said that the broken forward pastern hoof axis was probably something he had as a colt and the same with the chips and that that is a common thing - my regular vet disagrees with that assumption and says it (the broken forward ) is likely from bad trimming/shoeing and as for the chips, who knows. sunny's blood work results showed his T3 was normal - his coritsol levels (with a cortisol rythym test) were at a 32-33% range. normal is considered 30% and under, so he is just barely out of normal range. his insulin was 4.8 and 5.2. - nothing was definitive. so the clinic vet diagnosed him as pre-cushingoid. she had my farrier shorten the toe and raise the heel and he put plastic glue-ons with the blue rubbery stuff in between.
i had my regular vet out to see sunny last week after discovering she was listed on the edss vet/farrier list (i kicked myself!) and she is pretty convinced that his laminitis is simply a case of bad shoeing. she said there are no visible signs of foundering on his hooves (which conflicts with what my new farrier says - i swear he said there were rings, but i couldn't see them either) and that they look heathy and the way they should - except they are not trimmed exactly the way she would like to see them trimmed,which is the "natural balance" method. she also said that sunny does not present any signs of metabolic laminitis - he is a good weight (though at the top of what he should weigh for not being worked or ridden) no fatty bulges, bumps etc. he took a long time, almost a year to gain the 100 or so pounds that he needed when i first got him 2 years ago - and that was adding lots of sweet feed and weight supplements and 3 or 4 flakes of alfalfa a day, so i would not necessarily say he is an easy keeper. he has since been on a regimen of 2 to 3 pounds of senior feed twice a day with one flake of alfalfa (depending on pasture conditions) in the am and timothy hay at night when he goes in his pipe corral (busy mouths are happy mouths!). he has a buddy and they graze and play on almost 2 acres of pasture during the day. he also gets herbal supplements for allergies and general immune system support as well as platinum plus, which has trace minerals in it.
so i am conflicted. i have a vet i like and trust that is pretty conservative as far as her approach to things (doing the least expensive, invasive thing to diagnose first and then going to the next step if no results are forthcoming) and she believes i wasted my money on all the tests i had done at my local equine clinic, which she says loves to overdo testing and usually comes up with the most expensive thing possible regarding treatment. she believes the broken forward hoof pastern axis can be corrected with proper trimming.
on the other hand i have a farrier i like - he is confident (some consider him cocky) and considered very good by other horse owners i know. and he was right - he and my vet did disagree. he said sunny had foundered and had rings on his hoof etc. that my regular vet and i did not see. what confuses me there is that he never said any of this the first time he did a trim on him. he did say he thought i should have him testing for cushings because he thought sunny looked like he a little "fat pad" by his hip. my regular vet disagrees. she said he is now a good weight but wants his feed cut back since he is not being worked or ridden at the moment.
so i guess the question is whom do i believe and go with. they are both obviously very strong in their opinions and believe they are right - and they are both very good at what they do. i just want sunny to be okay and want to do the least thing that will upset his routine and life.
in looking back i can see how doing xrays first would have been a less expensive way to start off and if something showed in the xray that might be the cause of the lameness and laminitis (and it did) - then the expensive blood tests might not have been necessary. my regular vet asked me if they did any nerve blocking first in the hoof first - they did not - she said that was a fairly inexpensive way to find out where the lameness might be originating. her suggestion is to have his shoes pulled in 3 or 4 weeks (the glue is coming out, but brian also put 2 nails in each shoe) and bute him for the first few days and then trim his feet in such a way as to make the foot wider at the heel and the band more even. she said brian did a good job and she would only change a couple of small things and really feels like his lameness is because of the way his feet have been done. his back feet look really long in the toe - still oval rather than round like they used to be. i believe he has really hard horn (hoof wall?) - every vet that has seen him has said the same thing as did brian, the farrier.
i recently purchased gene ovniceks videos and am hoping my farrier will be open to watching them. i like him very much and he really cut me a break on the shoes. i would hate to lose him - but sunny is more important and if i can't get him to do what i want then there will be no contest.
so all this to ask if it sounds as if my vet is right and could it be that the lameness is purely the result of bad trimming. can the broken forward (is there an acronym for this?? geesshh!) hoof pastern axis be corrected with correct and consistant trimming? i just am not sure where to go from here. i know you aren't vets, but you are skilled farriers with far more experience than most vets and i am inclined to trust the combined knowledge and experience that i have read online.
can you give me your opinions please? i hope i have given you enough (LOL!) information to come to some conclusion. all you are missing is MY blood type and social security number!
thanks so much,
linda