Metabolically challenged horses

[Ronald Aalders]

I spend years studying the mechanical side of laminitis. That's what horse shoers are for right? I never spend too much time looking at metabolism issues regarding laminitis. I would like more information though. I know I'll be able to find of all of this somewhere but I'll need help, I'm just a horse shoer! I need this info sorted out a little or I'll drown.

Through these boards I got to understand a little on the insulin resistant horses. Horses that because of this condition can not cope really well with sugars (carbonhydrates) in their food. This leads to an excess of sugar in the horses blood and triggers laminitis. Horses like that need, after checking up on their insulin resistance, a special diet to prevent the intake of more carbonhydrates than the horses metabolism can handle. By the way is it save to call such a horse a diabetic horse?

Are there more metabolism related conditions other than IR, that could play a role in the way laminitis strikes?

Anyone feels able and willing to help out?

Thanks,


Ronald Aalders

[TE Couch]

join the yahoo group equinecushings and go through the new member primer, all the files and docs - that is as good as it gets on the topic
TE

[Moses Shaw]

Ron its funny how life as we know it always changes. its not enough to be just a farrier no matter how good. Case in point is this 20 YO mare that had a 2mm sole margin (yikes right?) in 2 shoeing cycles it increased to 15mm, and im thinking im the man. wrong! great circulation venogram confirmed that, a substatial amount of derotation, but pain level didnt subside. So here we are scratching our heads because blood work comes back normal. Vet is talking about putting her down, so they start treating her for cushings with cypro and pergolide and a month later she bucking and having a blast so the clinic runs out of that med and switchs her to straight pergolide and 2 to 3 weeks later she starts to decline her pain level increases and everyone is yelling its her feet. So the research begins here and there and everywhere i can submerge myself in the world of hormones and what meds affect what. I messaged patty been on euro sites and 2 weeks ago they put her back on the original meds and oddly enuff she is responding .problem is vet isnt an endrcrinologist and eveidently thats a big and mysterious world so today i flat out told him i cant help her unless you do. he still thinks its a foot issue, so good luck trying to learn as much as you can its enough to deal with the distal limb let alone trying to do the vets job. In my Humble opinion it takes 2 life times to learn this trade and in that time all things will change, so when does it end? Lmao just some of my starnge humor and why i love my job and a thirst for knowledge that's never satisfied. Be Safe Mo Shaw CJF

[Ronald Aalders]

Thanks guys,

And Moses that's exactly my point! I don't want to become a vet. (I could not handle always knowing exactly what to do.......) But I would like to have a working knowledge of possible (metabolism related) causes for laminitis. Just to be able to point them out and help owners and vets thinking a little. The sort of info along the lines like I described in this thread on IR horses. For me such knowledge would do I guess. If need be I could jump into a discussion board as Mr. TE Couch suggested.

So sofar we came up with IR horses and those suffering from Cushings, or are those related in some way? See? I need to know more!



Ronald Aalders

[caballus]

Good Morning ... I just replied to another post you wrote further on down the board. As for the metobolic reasoning behind laminitis, go to Chris Pollitt's site to read more. As for Cushings and IR horses ... and eliminating carbs and sugars from the diets; there is much written on that and you'd do well to do a search on google or dogpile. (Every horse would do well on a low carb/low sugar/ high fat/high forage diet). I have 2 horses here that are Cushings, have a few more in my practice that I'm working with and I also have an IR horse here. It's interesting to note that with the IR horse one single carrot can wreak havoc with the horse! The Diabetic horse cannot properly process glucose - a simple sugar present in almost all carbohydrates, including grain, grass, and hay. Within 20 mins. of eating a carrot this horse is running wild in his paddock! The Cushing Horses can tolerate Carrots and Apples and such. The ones here are on a Chaste Berry (Agnus castus) supplement in lieu of Pergolide and successfully so. The CB has the same properties as pergolide but is much more safe and much less inexpensive. It is actually raw herb rather than a processed chemical. The Cushings is a disease that attacks the pituitary gland whereas the IR is a metobolic disease. Cushing Horses do not produce enough Dopamine which inhibits the normal functioning of the Pituitary Gland. Cushing Horses may also become IR. The IR horse is managed by having a diet of ONLY hay and vitamins and 99% fat supplement. We will give him fresh veggies at times but not weekly as with the other horses. The veggies that are fed to him have to be low, low sugar. Cushings horses do well on the same diet. I actually have a pending article coming up in a new publication called Horse'NHoof about just this -- the IR horse. I will post it when it is published. Both diseases are excerbated by the inability to process sugars. Both to extreme results.

--caballus

[caballus]

Forgot -- DMG has also been studied with respect to Cushings with favorable results: here's more info on that:

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/dim_0097.shtml

--cab

[calshoer]

When you join the yahoo discusion group, skip the actual discussion boards(the are long, drawn out and repetitive) and go straight to the archived files where there are articles and the best posts from veterinarians and reseachers. Everyone has a little different take on the problem but when you look at all of the infomation available so far it begins to paint the bigger picture. Of particular interest is an article by Dr Phillip Johnson,who provides a good overview of Equine Metabolic Syndrome (which is really probably several syndromes that all eventually tie in together and drive one another ). Patty

[Moses Shaw]

the Yahoo Equine Cushings/IR Group has been very informative and thank you again Ms Patty. BE Safe Mo Shaw