Hot Shoeing

[John Barney]

Anyone in central Missouri that hot shoes and wouldn't mind a rider for a few days? I use my forge for modifying shoes for square toes, trailers ,etc. but haven't been taught hot fitting. I would like to learn more before I start on my own. One big thing I see is with a cold shoe you can feel the fit, when it is hot is it done by sight or do you qwench it each time to check it? Just like to continue the neverending journey of farriery. Thanks

JB

[Ronald Aalders]

Hi John,

Hot fitting is a bit different from cold shoeing. Be sure to travel with someone who hot fits as much as you can.

Maybe the trip is a little long but you'ld be welcome to travel with me. I ALWAYS hot fit. Even with aluminum and plastic. With those materials I use a flat steel plate to burn the foot flat. Whatever anyone will tell you nobody can trim a foot as flat as they can flatten out a shoe on an anvil face. So that's where the steel comes in. It smoothens out unavoidable trimming failures a little.

I was taught to HOT fit. Yes, lots of smoke. The reason is that when you really hot fit you get the chance to see the impression of the nailholes on the foot. That's a big help. Also the burned foot leaves a mark on the shoe so by looking at the hoofside of the shoe you can see exactly how the fit is. (No need to feel, although you can, just spit on your fingers a little and quickly slide them over the wall and shoe at the heels)

Further once you start to appreciate the importance of shoeing the coffin bone rather than the foot you can stop worrying whether the shoe has that special fit you're feeling for when you shoe cold. Shoe the foot so the shoe is where the foot ought to be. If you do that life will get a lot easier for both you and the horse!



Ronald Aalders

[Phil Armitage]

Good for you John, I started taking hot shoeing more serious and do it more often lately. I started by watching some of the good hot shoers in my area. I will write down the steps I go through. At first it seemed like such a waste of time, but after you do it a few times and come up with a system, it can be done like clock work and you will wonder how you got along without the Forge and find cold shoeing is too much work. Be carefull though, not all horses like hot shoeing and not all horse owner like it either. I have had people request that I do not hot shoe, I still shape it hot, then cool it down. Sometimes I notice it ****ing someone off, becuase they just asked me not to hot shoe there horse and I said no problem as I am lighting up my forge, they do not understand, that this is more for me than the horse. A few times I have fitted a horse hot, that supposedly could never be hot fitted becuase they are afraid of it and had no problem, but the owner looked at me and said, how did you do that??? I reply, forgot that your horse was afraid of that, must of got lucky. If you do things quick and don't make a fuss about it, most horses don't care. It is when people get all worked up that horses become concerned. Send the owner to get coffee or something.

[Gary Hill]

I would sure hate to be a cold shoer in Maine! I can feel the sting of the cold steel running up my arm! Being from the south any kind of cold weather even reset shoes go in the forge! Guess I'm a Candyass to cold weather! Gary

[cowboy_bc]

Hi all,

When I first started like everyone else I used a pritchel to burn shoes on and a lot of farriers I knw do but I found this to be shaky at best. So I went to work a built some hot fitting tongs as shown that work great and I used them for years but lately I have found that vice grips seem to work as well as anything. So what do you use?

[Gary Hill]

I use vice grips with the inside edge ground off, about 1/4 in. That way you can feel the toe and really get a good burn! Good Luck! Gary

[Dave Purves]

I need to get a new computer, ours is so old that I got a digital video camera for X-mas and the computer won't let me download the movies or pictures. I sure would like to post some of my pictures. Anyway, there are a few different ways to hot fit, Danver's wrote an excellent article in PF a few months ago. Anyway, I sink the dudes on, I mean take a deep breath, line up the shoe, and close your eyes cause the smoke is gonna pour off of the foot, but I trim the foot to allow for it. Others just touch the foot long enough to see the high or low spots and then rasp them level. I like the clips of my shoes to be flush with the hoofwall, the only way to get that is to angle them to the hoofwall and then sink the dudes in, you can do that in a seperate heat if you want, just get the clips hot or get the shoe hot and then "selectively" quench the shoe so that only the clips are hot and then burn them in seperately. I've had a few clients that objected but after explaining the benefits and showing them once they were hooked. Of course my wife doesn't let me in the house until I strip my "hoof smoke" filled clothes off, but I tell her it's the smell of money. She still won't let me in the house. One time I made the mistake of coming in when she was gone and sitting on the brand new furniture, that was last year and she still claims to smell hoof smoke in the chair. The spit on the fingers trick is a good one, but you will forget one day, that's when you start to build the "burn calluse". This is your best friend when it comes to hot fitting. I use the W brand hot fit tongs and with a little grinding they are great. Most of the time when fitting new shoes I will first bring the foot forward and just hold the shoe to the bottom that way I can see where it need adjusted. Good luck and remember there is no smoking in the barn.
Dave Purves CF ;)

[J.H. shoeing]

I use needle nose vise grips after they have been adjusted with the grinder. It allows you set the shoe down and pick it up if you have trouble getting the foot up. Also they are inexpensive, off brand are $2.99, at the industrial supply house. I grind them down where the jaw will fit into the nail hole. I use the same pair on 000's to 5's.

Jeff

[Ronald Aalders]

I just forged the ends of my tongs, you know in this hot fitting shape. Works great and it's fast too. When done forging put the shoe on your anvil and pick them up with the ends of the same tong you've been working with. And those won't cost you anything! Just square the ends and give them a nice curve.

O I almost forgot, I always use a fan. I have this 18" fan blowing when I fit the shoe to get rid of the smoke. In winter I turn it off when not fitting but in summer I leave it on, sometime use two.



Ronald Aalders

[Bill Adams]

Hot shoeing is the only way. That's because the best shoers I've ever wached allways did it hot. I don't ever want to have to explane to someone why I didn't shoe their horse the best way posible.
When an owner is concerned that the horse may not like the smoke, I tell them that they used to run horses toward fireing cannon while shooting a gun from their back, so we can train Ol' Pokey to stand a little smoke.
As to hurting the horse, I explain that I can and have burned horses, but I have nippers, nails, and knifes that I can kill'em with too.
I have one client that is real nervous about burning and I caught her "timeing" me by counting off seconds.Without her noticing, I got a peice of hoof triming and set it on the foot between the hot shoe and foot and let 'er boil. It got the disired efect and almost put the client in therapy.
I'll try to lighten things up for the faint of hart by asking if they have heard of second hand smoke. Then I inform them that I am making "second foot smoke".
Over the years I have had a far more positve responce than not, because the shoes stay on better and the real hoesemen know what's right.
John, you'll find it second nature in no time, espesialy that you are on the right track with the forge work.
What Ron said about aluminum and plastic is right on. It will seal the hoof tubuals too. I use a new flat steel shoe for that job as I don't curently have a nice steel plate, yet. My hot tongs are like Ron uses, and I ground a knoch in one side of the tong jaws to hold a shoe thats fullered but dosen't have nail holes yet.
Always shoe hot,
Bill

[Phil Armitage]

When you think about it, who wants to shoe a horse that is afraid of smoke and noise anyways. This indicates more training is needed. The ones that stand there quitly for hot shoeing are the good ones. Ever notice that the horses that do not tolerate hot shoeing also give there owners trouble on the ground and in the saddle. Could use hot shoeing as a way to find out what your getting under.

[Jason Maki]

John,
Chris Gregory's school, Heartland Horsehoeing School, is in Lamar. That is about an hour north of Joplin in the SW corner of Mo.( I abbreviate, because very time I type Missouri, it comes out misery. While I was in school there, my wife worked 70 plus hours a week at Freeman hospital. She was in constant misery, so was immune to the rural charm of the state! She calls it "misery' and after 9 years, we seem to be melding into one insanely similar being :eek: ) He runs, or did run, customized courses in February. You might be able to spend a day, or a week working out what you want to learn. It might be worth a try.
Jason

[Caballitos1]

Trying Heartland Horseshoeing School, Chris Gregory may have a list of people close to you--he's in Lamar. I went to school there and that's all we did was hot shoe......

[Jack Evers]

Bill's comment on second foot smoke reminds me of a client a few years ago who had just gotten a cigarret out when I started to hot fit one. He put the cigarret back in the pack, the pack back in his pocket and said "kinda spoils your appetite". Personally I don't think burned hoof smells that much worse than most cigs, but there is a lot more smoke.

Jack

[Phil Armitage]

I would sure hate to be a cold shoer in Maine! I can feel the sting of the cold steel running up my arm! Being from the south any kind of cold weather even reset shoes go in the forge! Guess I'm a Candyass to cold weather! Gary

It is cold............."How cold is it Phil?" ...........It is sooooo cold that the flame in my forge froze :eek: Even the horses get wimpy after awhile. Below zero is kind of deceptive, you step outside and it is so cold it almost feels warm then before you know it, your freezing.

[Mike Ferrara]

It is cold............."How cold is it Phil?" ...........It is sooooo cold that the flame in my forge froze :eek:


The second time in 24 hours I heard that one. I was talking to a guy at centaur yesterday. I ordered a fire pot so I can build a coal forge in the shop and the elbow was busted. I suggested that maybe they'd be better off not shipping them assembled and he explained that they do it that way because people don't know how to put them together. He claims that a guy in Alaska even asked if his flame would freeze.

That'll be my weekend...build a table, a side draft hood and steal a blower out of something around the house...shhhhh...don't tell my wife. My gasser is great but I miss my old coal forge that walked off and I mean to have another!

[Jason Maki]

It was cold enough here today that my 40 lbs tank froze in five minutes! I am south of Maine. How do you keep the moose out of your grain stores, Phil?
Jason

[Phil Armitage]

The problem is not keeping the Moose away from the grain it is keeping them away from the horses. A couple of years ago a Moose came into the paddock with my horses and got tangled up in the wire fence, he took off running with the fence attached to him, all of the wire and insulators were pulled off. When I came home the horses were standing all together in the middle of a paddock with no fence. First thought was I am going to kill the little trouble maker that took down this fence, the I saw moose prints all around the paddock. I can't imagine what the horses went through, maybe they thought if we just stand here real still this thing won't see us. :eek: Moose have a very large terrertory and they don't forget there trails and it appears they pass on the info to there young, we are located on one of there paths, and the paddock was across it, they do not care about fences and wires. So I moved the fenceing and we are now coexist with the moose. Deer are cool, they jump in and out of the paddock very gracefully without damageing the fence.

[Meg Oliver]

Hey, John.

Good luck in finding someone to ride with. I too was taught hot shaping as well as hot seating the shoes. I was also taugt that the main purpose is to cauterize or seal in moisture. Do a proper trim first...don't cheat with the burning. And in answer to your question, yes you quench the shoe after hot seating it. If not, nailing that sucker on could be trickey!!!

Be safe.

Meg Oliver

[Meg Oliver]

Speaking of cold, I accidentally lived in Ohio for 12 years and I decided to move away the day my coffee froze in my cup. I was working inside a barn, but the temp outside was 20 below and 85 below with the wind. The coffee had just been poured out of my thermos. Nothing is fun in those temps...especially not shoeing horses. Hope all of you are staying warm somehow.

Meg Oliver

[Jason Maki]

I tried to weld up a barshoe today( It was a balmy 12 degrees). My 40 lbs tank froze up on the second heat. I exchanged it for the 30 lbs tank, that froze up solid. Ever try welding under a flickering, failing flame! Atleast my heater does'nt draw enough to freeze! Zero tonight, with 10 inches or so promised tommorrow! Sounds like NE Ohio to me! In five months it will be 90 degrees and 90% humidity... I'll be wishing for the teens again.
Jason

[John Barney]

Thanks for all the replys. By the way 11 degrees here this morning, I thought I would stay here after the military for the warmer weather, right! At least land is affordable, thinking about moving up from 28 to 60 acres. Try not to get any frostbite, we will be shedding the winter pounds before you know it.
Thanks again.

JB