Pigeon toe

[madmaxII]

Hi,
I am new to this forum so forgive me if this thread has been done before!! :rolleyes:

My warmblood has a pigeon toe on his nearfore. He is only 5 years old. I am going to try and attach some pictures for you to look at the balance. He is shod with wide web shoes and the outer lateral side of the shoe is wider than his hoof. He lands on the lateral (outside) side of his hoof first hence the wide web on this side to try and support. We are obviously trying to get him to land even but now his is flaring on the medial side of his hoof. He is also going more pigeon toed. I am unsure as to what to do next when he is shod next week. He has false ringbone now on the outside of his pastern. AHHHHHHHH - please help :eek: :confused: :D

[Rick Burten]

We need some more recent photos of not only his feet(all 4), but also of his overall conformation, especially the front legs. He should be standing on a flat level surface, with his head and neck in line with his spine and hanging naturally. He should be standing squarely, but not posed.

Also, please provide a bit more complete history. How long have you owned him? Was a pre-purchase exam done before you bought him? Has he always been pigeon toed on that limb? Do you have radiographs of the limb and hoof?
How do you know it is false ringbone? Has there been a change in farriers since you have owned him, and has there been any change in the trim and/or shoe style?

The fact that he lands laterally first, and that the "false ringbone" is on the lateral side too, and that there is medial flaring,indicates to me that the hoof is out of balance.

The shoe appeared to be of equal web width, just fit more full to the outside. In this case, I feel that that is also contributing to the problem.

Rick

[Ronald Aalders]

Rick is right. We definitely need more pictures. For one pictures that show the front legs, so we can kind of try and establish the pigeon toed-ness (Is that how you say it?)

As to the horse getting more and more pigeon toed, I think you guys are trying to get him to land even by lowering the lateral side of the foot. This is not the right approach! If you want to lower anything lower the medial toe. Don't overdo it. Keep the coronary band even with the horizontal.

Worry about balance first and about landing even later!

May you also want to have a look at the "Not landing even, cause or symptom" thread in the Farriers helping Farriers with Hoofbalance section of these boards.


Ronald Aalders

[madmaxII]

Hi,

I have sent you both messages direct as I cannot get my pictures to download!! :mad: :confused:

Thanks

[Ronald Aalders]

Hi Mrs. Manning,


I got photo's in as you promised and had a look.

What struck me at first is that the LF does not appear to be a typical pigeon toed foot at all. Like Rick noticed too there is even a flare on the lateral side, not what you'ld expect on a toeing in horse. In fact the only picture this toeing in problem can be seen is the one I posted here as Tania1.

I'm pretty sure (but I've been wrong before!) the pigeon toe is 'just' a symptom of (a) problem(s) elsewhere. Or, more correct, this problem will not be solved by just working on the horse's LF. This is the reason I asked you for further details about the horse's back. And indeed you told me the horse has a history of back problems.

What IMHO you need to be focussing on are the horse's back and it's hocks. I would get the hind shoes back on this horse, probably with a lateral extension. I'ld also provide more breakover in the front feet. Further I'ld discuss with your shoer to use an eggbar shoe on the front. I'm not a big fan of eggbars at all, but in this case it just may be the ticket. Also I'ld contact the shoer that shod the horse previously. You told me the horse did better when he shod it, but that it was a long drive and he was expensive. (I think there may have been a reason for his being expensive, quality comes at a price.........) Contact him and ask him what exactly he did on the hinds of your horse. If he's a professional shoer worth his grits he'll be able to tell you and draw up something for your own shoer to at least have something to work with. Unfortunately a shoeing job is not that easily transferred from one shoer to another, but it is a start.

Although I realize (as I hope you do) I may well be VERY wrong here, you may want to check the following. My hunch would be that your horse has a problem bending in it's loins, you know the part just behind the saddle. Probably it has a hard time backing up because of it. To compensate for this 'stiffness' it ill uses it's hocks and knees. All this may well have an effect on its front end. The toeing in may further be worsened by the scartissue I think I noticed high up it's LF. I posted a picture as Tania3. Also the horse appears a little base wide, which just may have to do with the back too, but it will surely not help keeping the front legs straight.

I posted some other pictures too, so others can jump in.



Ronald Aalders

[Phil Armitage]

Hey guys, just a couple of observations, notice the deep rings just below the hair line, there deep, what happened? Also the lateral side looks long and flared on both front feet. The heels and bulbs look contracted. How does this horse land at the walk and trot, toe first or heel first?