AFA Exec. Director Resigns

[Bo Terry]

Just thought everyone should know.

Bo :eek:

This message is to notify the Board that I cannot continue working with the current President of the AFA, and I am hereby submitting my resignation, effective January 15, 2007.



While there have been problems from the very beginning, recent events have made it impossible for me to continue in such a hostile environment.



His leadership style has posed a problem from the start, but recent events have pushed things beyond my endurance. Specifically, on December 21, the EC met by conference call and, among other items, discussed the involvement of the editor of Professional Farrier in the current AFA election campaign. During the discussion, President Ferguson stated that he had spoken with Danvers Child shortly before the EC meeting, and that there was no problem. Yet the next day, after talking with Danvers about editorial matters, I discovered that there was no agreement, and that the President has misled the EC.



There are several crucial issues now before the AFA’s leadership, including renewed proposals for the re-structuring of the Board, the hiring of a permanent Executive Director, the publication of the Professional Farrier magazine, and the continuing preparation for the Albuquerque Convention. With the first two issues under study by the EC, further debate over the editor’s role in the election did not seem to warrant further discussion. However, President Ferguson notified the EC last Saturday that there would be a call on December 28 to further debate the issue.



At least three members of the EC questioned the need for such a call, and nothing more was heard from the President until December 29. At that point, he called and began making disparaging remarks about members of the EC, informed me that he could and would call meetings whenever he wanted, and that if I wanted to quit because he and I did not agree on the editor issue, that I should go ahead and do so. He then hung up on me.



I was originally hired for 3-4 months, but agreed to stay on because there was such turmoil, that no qualified candidate would have taken the job prior to the mid-year meeting. I gave my notice some time ago, having realized I was no longer willing to be subjected to the abuse and discord which all to common in the AFA. However, at the request of the EC, I agreed to stay on until a new CEO was hired, or until May, which ever came first.



That is no longer possible. Most of my early weeks at the AFA were spent trying to solve the civil war within the EC and Board. I was subjected to criticism by some for what they felt was protecting the President from impeachment efforts. My only goal was to avoid a damaging battle to remove Mr. Ferguson, a battle which was almost certain to fail because of the requirement that the vote of three-fourths of the entire Board (43 directors at that time) were needed to remove him.



The mediation which was held in May was an attempt to heal the wounds, and get back to the business of the Association. In June I thought it had been successful, but it has become more and more apparent that there is a deep split within the leadership, and that I am not the person who can heal it. I doubt whether anyone can.



My best wishes to the AFA. I have met and worked with many great people over the past nine months, and I will remember them., while trying to forget one of the most trying periods in my life.





Mike Nolan

American Farrier's Association

4059 Iron Works Pkwy, #1

Lexington KY 40511

859-233-7411

[Cyber Farrier]

I usually don't participate in these discussions, but my curiosity is getting the best of me. So I must ask:

What are the respective "positions" of Mr. Nolan and Mr. Fergusson regarding the Editor, in relation to the elections? Obviously they were on different sides of the fence. Can anyone authoritatively define what their positions are?

Baron

[Jaye Perry]

Again under Jaye's login.

My father-in-law has a farm about an hour west of were he lives. He's rented it out for the last twenty or so years, and just never really looked after it as long as his rent payment came. Well, the renter finally left so we went to check out the farm house and it was in terrible shape.

Conclusion,

The land is beautiful, slightly rolling 20 acres with a 2 acre pond, the house well he decided that it would be easier and cheaper to tear it down, and build a new one, then try to fix up the existing house.

Maybe it's time for the AFA to tear itself apart and build it up all over again?

Dave Purves

[T.N. Trosin]

I usually don't participate in these discussions, but my curiosity is getting the best of me. So I must ask:

What are the respective "positions" of Mr. Nolan and Mr. Fergusson regarding the Editor, in relation to the elections? Obviously they were on different sides of the fence. Can anyone authoritatively define what their positions are?

Baron

Obviously there are, where, whatever, but I think that they would be the only two who could define them and thats Dave and Mike. I think it should be left to them.

Yes I will say that this is the letter the AFA Board recieved, it's a little discourging to me that it is, in it's entirity already on this discussion board. It's further discourageing that it was posted by a general member of the AFA. Not to say that I would be any happier at the moment if a Board member posted it here, but the mischief is done. So be it.

[THamilton]

TN - Are you insinuating that the letter should not have been posted here for all to see? With the past doings of the AFA, do you not think that a timely manner of accurate information from the source be given to the public- In its entirety?

Or is it that the letter was written on a forum which is utilized by horse owners too? They know of the doings of the organization too. Especially with what has been going on on these boards.
Are they the ones that can make or break the AFA, especially if the "benefits of using a CJF for your horse" are marketed? They have a right to know.

Or is it the fact the AFA now has no control over the information being given or used in public?

Tony

[Dick Fanguy]

As a Board of Directors member, I have not received this information officially, but I assume from Tom Trosin’s response that it is a done deal.

If the Executive Director of Disney resigns, it’s public knowledge; there’s a press release to the general public, same if the Executive Director, CEO, or whatever of GE, Ford, or any other company or foundation resigns.

There’s an announcement, people hear it and life goes on. The minute that there’s a perception that things are being done behind closed doors, that general members are being left out of the loop, or that something is less than “up front,” it becomes a big deal.

We don’t need any more big deals. We need to get information out in a timely manner and not try to keep things quiet and amongst a “select few.”

Just my opinion….

[Derin Foor]

We don’t need any more big deals. We need to get information out in a timely manner and not try to keep things quiet and amongst a “select few.”


well said.........the membership has a right to know EVERYTHING that goes on within the organization to which they pay dues

Derin

[Phil Armitage]

T.N. this is not a matter for two individuals. Two individuals do not have the right to destroy our association. We need to know what is going on at all times. This is an association made up of many members, the AFA does not belong to few individuals.

I think the AFA will survive, anyone wants to quit then let them quit.

[Jaye Perry]

TN to see? .....the fact the AFA now has no control over the information being given or used in public?

Tony
The AFA lost control of it's organization.

[vthorseshoe]

Phil, I don't always agree with your statements, but I think you said it right up front .

Put up or get out. It really seems that it is time to clean house.

It is time for the membership to get off their duffs and vote logically and with a sincerely knowledgable interest.
Don't vote a person in so things will calm down. Vote folks in so the organization is run in a proper manner with INTEGRITY AND HONESTY.

Vote for folks who will be there with the same interest and direction to lead beyond this up-coming election.

VOTE FOR FOLKS WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DELEGATE, WORK WITH OTHERS, LEAD BY BEING A LEADER, NOT A DICTATOR.

Tom Trosin and others who wish this was still held behind closed doors isn't doing the association any justice.
Tammeny Hall was a corrupt behind closed doors with false public relations and it bled the folks for yrs.
Vote for honesty, sincereity, and people you can believe in.

[brian robertson]

Seems like there are more "Drama Queens" in the AFA then in any high school in history. Maybe there really is something in that smoke from hot shoeing.

[Gary_Miller]

Obviously there are, where, whatever, but I think that they would be the only two who could define them and thats Dave and Mike. I think it should be left to them.

Yes I will say that this is the letter the AFA Board recieved, it's a little discourging to me that it is, in it's entirity already on this discussion board. It's further discourageing that it was posted by a general member of the AFA. Not to say that I would be any happier at the moment if a Board member posted it here, but the mischief is done. So be it.
Maybe if the AFA leadership (BOD/BOD rep,EC) would of posted this on the AFA web site or emailed it out to the general membership. The news would of not had to be broken on a web board.

This just did not happen over night yet it has been kept from the general membership. Why?

[ranchoblanco]

Bruce in green.

Tom Trosin and others who wish this was still held behind closed doors isn't doing the association any justice

By what justice as an AFA member and as a President of an association are you doing outside closed doors?


Tammeny Hall was a corrupt behind closed doors with false public relations and it bled the folks for yrs.

I don't understand what relevance that has to The BOD, and others that are working hard for the association. Your statement "clean house" seems very broad. You also used the words "Honesty" and "Integrity"- and the couple individuals i know exemplify alot of those qualities.

My point is i don't know who you seem to be pointing the finger at, but if its to everyone thats not right. JMO

Mike

[vthorseshoe]

Mike

When I make statements it is with the desire to make folks think.

The mention of Tameny Hall era was used as an assimilation of folks keeping information in their own private group and not available to the folks who voted them into office.

The last yr. has been full of bad judgement by a few and allowed by others who should have stood up and nipped things in the bud. (my opinion)

As far as being president of an association and should be inside the doors and not behind them, Just what kind of information do your really think comes here ?
I had yet to be notified (Prior to my decsion to retire and having another member approved by our board to be our VtFA rep to the AFA) by anyone from the folks in charge asking or informing me or my association of anything prior to reading it here.
I can't speak for other associations, but it seemed rather clear to me that if there is a network it is from individuals saying "did you hear this ?"


Yes there are a lot of honorable folks who have been in positions of leadership, but I ask, if all these folks are doing their jobs then why has there been so much turmoil ?


In the begining I asked and sent e-mails to various BOD members asking for any help they could provide or suggestions to update me on how proceedings worked.

I heard from 4.

Only 2 gave and offered help at any time. I only needed to ask or call.
That was John Blombach. the other was Dick Fanguy.
A 3rd person offered advice and left it there.
The 4th so much as said keep your mouth shut and let things go as they are.
Don't upset the apple cart.

I retire this March( hope to find time to fish and ride my motorcycle) as the President of our association in Vermont. ( another member has been selected to act as our BOD rep. so I am speaking strictly as a member of the AFA)


I have every right to expect the very best from anyone who holds an office in the AFA.
As I have a right to voice my opinions and express my concerns if they don't do their best.
And don't lay on me that they are all volunteers. We are all volunteers in our associations.
If you VOLUNTEER to run for an office then I expect the same from you as I would if I was paying you.
If you can't give it your all, to the best of your ability, then don't run.
I have heard folks say, I have a business to run and a family. I would like to believe a person running for an office has already taken that into consideration.

In all of my responces, ( and feel free to refer to anyone of them in full and exact context), I have always been straight forward, but remained polite. Most often speaking in generalization to spark folks to think and see both sides of a picture.

I don't and haven't attacked individuals as has been the norm on this and other boards. I speak to the masses and hope something I have to say has merit and makes sense.

[TRIP HAMMER]

T.N. this is not a matter for two individuals. Two individuals do not have the right to destroy our association. We need to know what is going on at all times. This is an association made up of many members, the AFA does not belong to few individuals.

Phil,

I agree with you, it takes all three thousand members to make our association work.

As far as Mike Nolan goes, you all know as much as I do or maybe more, I got copied on the same e-mail yesterday - honestly I don't see what all the drama is about - some Board members and officers want to get more information and have all the facts before they jump to conclusions.

Mike's phone number is on his e-mail, I will call him, I suggest you do the same and find out what is going on.

John Blombach

[Gary_Miller]

There is nothing to call mike about. His letter says it all.

He felt like he was working in a hostile environment so he decided to leave.

In most companies if you fell like you are in a hostile environment you have somewhere to go to file a complaint againts those creating the environment. In most cases those creating the environment are ether reasigned of let go so as to not open the company up for law suits.

In Mikes case or anyone else in the office where would they go. The BOD? :eek:

[T.N. Trosin]

Hmm just 2 pages? You'd think it was a holiday or somehting. Well here we go.

TN - Are you insinuating that the letter should not have been posted here for all to see? With the past doings of the AFA, do you not think that a timely manner of accurate information from the source be given to the public- In its entirety?
When Don Rumsfield resigned as secratary of defense, we knew about it but the world didn't see the actual letter he sent to the president, but we found out about through proper channels, which was my only point.


Or is it the fact the AFA now has no control over the information being given or used in public?
Tony

Mike Nolan sent me an email that pointed out that the email was unententionally sent to a group of general members insted of a specific chapters board. No harm was intended. Tony, it's not an issue of control, it's generally an issue of leadership, this instance muddles the water a little.

As a Board of Directors member, I have not received this information officially, but I assume from Tom Trosin’s response that it is a done deal.

Ok this is the reason. Here is a board member who hadn't seen the memo.

Nobody is trying to keep anything quiet, but again just a few days to get leadership in the loop would have been nice. It's a holiday weekend, you don't know where folks are. This is something that could have very well waited until we at least had the oppertunity to get it on the AFA site first, that would have been nice.

well said.........the membership has a right to know EVERYTHING that goes on within the organization to which they pay dues
Derin

We need to know what is going on at all times. This is an association made up of many members, the AFA does not belong to few individuals.
Maybe if the AFA leadership (BOD/BOD rep,EC) would of posted this on the AFA web site or emailed it out to the general membership. The news would of not had to be broken on a web board.

And I don't disagree, but in order for any outfit to be sucessful there needs to be a chain of command i.e the information is presented to the executives, then in a timely manner distributed to the board then to the shareholders, members, whatever.


Tom Trosin and others who wish this was still held behind closed doors isn't doing the association any justice.

Thats cold Bruce, and something I would expect from a few others but not from you. If you had sent the board an email that was controviserial would you want me broadcasting it before I put anythought into it? I don't wish that anything remain a secret and I thought that this should get out, but not until leadership was properly informed.

This just did not happen over night yet it has been kept from the general membership. Why?

Well I didn't see it comming, I knew that Mike was leaving weather the AFA repaced him or not after convention, but for him to resign effective the end of his pay schedule did blind side me. At this point of my response I think that it is important to note that the thought did cross my mind to inform the board that this was happening (Firday Night 7:30 pst when I checked my email), but Mike was prepaired to make his anouncement the following day, so I figured that the board would read them in the same email setting so let Mike make the anouncment to the board and respond afterward.


In Mikes case or anyone else in the office where would they go. The BOD? :eek:

I would have hoped that he would have come to the EC, but I guess he didn't so be it.

The fact of the matter is that Mike is a good guy. While the things he accomplished as the ED weren't big and splashy like the things Mr. Quinsey did he did tighten a lot of the loose nuts and bolts that the AFA had. He was actually my kind of ED, the kind that gave the right advice, the kind that worked well with others that realized that he was a grown man with experiance and treated him as such, the kind that saw the little things that needed to be done to to help hang the big picture.
He came in at a difficult time of the AFA. On the heel of a scandle, through one of the most contentious elections in AFA history where there was changes galore, he kind of held the association together.

[THamilton]

It seems that transparency is an issue with the AFA. By letting the letter go throught "proper" channels, this has not been allowed to happen in the past.

The letter that Rumsfeld sent could be viewed I am sure in the archives of whereever they keep historical papers. You say that it is not an issue of control but rather leadeship. I am sure that Mr. Noolan would have followed the channels he needed to if he felt that it would be beneficial for evetyone.

What muddies that water is the fact that the AFA does not have the best reputation for releasing information in a timely manner in its entirety. Here we have it and now you say it needed to follow the proper channels? HOw long and how many persons is that? What is a timely manner to them? In the past it has been quite awhile and information has leaked out.

Why is it n issue that the information go to the AFA website first? Were the memebers not already aware of what was goiog on? If not, why? Lack of information?


"...he kind of held the association together." Does this mean there is going to me more fallout?

Tony

[Rick Burten]

While I understand and basically agree with Tom's(TN's) premise, I think that concurrent with the full e-mail being sent to the BoD, a brief statement should have appeared on the AFA web site. Something like " Mike Nolan, acting Executive Director of the AFA has announced that the is resigning the position effective 15January2006. Details will follow as soon as the EC and the BoD have had an opportunity to discuss the matter."

As of the time of this post, there is still nothing on the AFA website.

Rick

[vthorseshoe]

I just recieved an e-mail from a person I have tons of respect for. His need to e-mail me was to state he has known T.N. Trosin for many years and he is a standup guy who wouldn't hide anything from anyone.

Tom remarked in his last post that the manner I phrased my remark was "cold". and not something he expected from me.

Mike came on and felt my remark was offensive in its application.


It is not in my nature to be offensive.
I am just tired of the way things appear to be handled.

I do know that mistakes are easy to make. So I appoligize to T.N. Trosin and anyone else who felt the shoe fit, for my statement about keeping things behind closed doors.

Rick, I also went immediately to the AFA site and found nothing.

[TRIP HAMMER]

As of the time of this post, there is still nothing on the AFA website

Rick,

What should be posted on the AFA Website? Mike Nolan's letter to the BOD? I suppose if that is what he wanted, it would be there. Who would have the authority to post an official response to the letter without first discussing it with all the other officers and the BOD, or at least the Board rep?

It's easy for anyone to put anything on these boards any time, whether or not it is hurtful or harmful to themselves or others. Many have posting privaleges on the AFA site and may post Mikes Resignation on their own if that's what you all seem to think is the right thing to do. I don't.

John Blombach

[Bo Terry]

Some have stated that the "official" statement should have been delayed until the BOD,EC had a chance to discuss this. In my opinion, there is no discussion. Mike said it very plainly in his resignation and there is no reason for anyone to have their panties in a wad because the "general" membership knew exactly what his letter stated before they could "talk" about it.

IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!!!

I believe that everyone here sincerely wants what is best for our AFA. With that in mind, especially with an election coming up, why does it seem that "the good ole boys club" has once again appeared, trying to save face. Why do we continue to try and save face instead of doing something about the problem?

Just to be clear, my posting of this letter was not intended to be harmful or controversial in any way, but to make sure that everyone is well informed.

JMO

Bo

[wwhite1973]

It seems that Fran Jurga was aware of his resignation.
Check out her hoof blog at http://www.hoofcare.blogspot.com/.
Wayne White

[TRIP HAMMER]

Some have stated that the "official" statement should have been delayed until the BOD,EC had a chance to discuss this. In my opinion, there is no discussion. Mike said it very plainly in his resignation and there is no reason for anyone to have their panties in a wad because the "general" membership knew exactly what his letter stated before they could "talk" about it.

IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!!!

I believe that everyone here sincerely wants what is best for our AFA. With that in mind, especially with an election coming up, why does it seem that "the good ole boys club" has once again appeared, trying to save face. Why do we continue to try and save face instead of doing something about the problem?

Just to be clear, my posting of this letter was not intended to be harmful or controversial in any way, but to make sure that everyone is well informed.

JMO

Bo



Mr Terry,

To quote mr. Nolan "This message is to notify the Board that I cannot continue working with the current President of the AFA, and I am hereby submitting my resignation, effective January 15, 2007."


If you are not a Board member that letter was not for your use. If you are a Board member then maybe you just exercised questionable judgement. Clearly the letter was not intended for you to place in public view.

Respectfully,

John Blombach

[jseyffer]

OK - I might as well jump in here so I can get flamed. I do not often go to the AFA web site and boards until I see something here. This set of boards tends to be way out in front of the "official" site. I have noticed, however, that the worst seems to be suspected of everybody who posts here. In other words, these boards tend to sound like a soap opera where everybody has ulterior motives. There is news to be had, but it must be sifted from inuendo, insinuation, and back biting.

[sweetbranchforge]

It seems that Fran Jurga was aware of his resignation.
Check out her hoof blog at http://www.hoofcare.blogspot.com/.
1. Hey.. Where's your name?

2. OK - I might as well jump in here so I can get flamed. I do not often go to the AFA web site and boards until I see something here. This set of boards tends to be way out in front of the "official" site. I have noticed, however, that the worst seems to be suspected of everybody who posts here. In other words, these boards tend to sound like a soap opera where everybody has ulterior motives. There is news to be had, but it must be sifted from inuendo, insinuation, and back biting.
__________________
Jack Seyffer


One more post like that bucko and you're outta here

PS- Wassamatta Rick&Ron... Cat got yer tongue?

[THamilton]

If the letter was not meant vor one to post in public view, then why was it realeased to such persons? I undersand that there was an "accident" and it was inadvertantly sent when it was not supposed to. But...

IMO and in my experience, A slipup like this does not happen unless it was meant to in some way. I am not blaming anyone or pointing the finger, but it has happened. And alot of persons outside of the farriers circle are getting wind of the issues that the AFA are having. The AFA needs to get its head out of the sand and get itself on the right track.

Mr Blombach,
For you to say that the letter was not for Bo Terry to use is not a true statement. We do not kow how Mr. Terry came to possess such a letter (and I am not asking either) but he did. That possibly means there are others than those that need to know (EC, BoD etc.) that know this information. Anyone of them could have done that same thing or something similar. Are you not calling Fran Jurga and questioning her judgement to post something on her blog whent he AFAF has not made an "official statement"?

I guess we will see what the AFA website has to say next week whent he open. IMO Not much can be said. The dirty laundry is being aireed out.

Tony

[T.N. Trosin]

Well let's see here. The Email was sent on a Saturday of a holiday weekend, while I'm not certain who updates the AFA site, I am almost certain that they arn't in until tommrow.

My whole point about the this getting out, is what is the difference if the general membership knows about it 3 days later in order for a rather large board of directors to get it?

You guys think that now we have the good old internet and that stuff should be out to you at a moments notice, I'm sorry thats not the way it should be. I always knew to the day when I was going to receive either my professional farrier or my AFA newsletter. It was 5 days from the day I got the first phone call about something that was in it. There I was a member of the AFA board and I couldn't respond to there questions, whatever they were calling about and I had no earthly idea what to say, because until they had brought it to my attention I had no idea about the problem.

Since this year mid-year meeting we the AFA has tried to change that so that the board wouldn't be caught cold on an issue because of a lack of knowledge. It's not that we want the membership to be out of the loop, we do want you to be informed, but the board and the excutives need to be able to answer your questions.

[Gary Hill]

Just wondering, who is the webmaster for the afa? Thanks, Gary

[Cyber Farrier]

Just wondering, who is the webmaster for the afa? Thanks, GaryI can tell you who it's not...

Baron

[Rick Burten]

Rick,

What should be posted on the AFA Website? Mike Nolan's letter to the BOD? I suppose if that is what he wanted, it would be there. Who would have the authority to post an official response to the letter without first discussing it with all the other officers and the BOD, or at least the Board rep?

It's easy for anyone to put anything on these boards any time, whether or not it is hurtful or harmful to themselves or others. Many have posting privaleges on the AFA site and may post Mikes Resignation on their own if that's what you all seem to think is the right thing to do. I don't.

John Blombach
John, Had you read my post for content in context, you would have found that I suggested:
I think that concurrent with the full e-mail being sent to the BoD, a brief statement should have appeared on the AFA web site. Something to the effect of: " Mike Nolan, acting Executive Director of the AFA has announced that he is resigning the position effective 15January2006. Details will follow as soon as the EC and the BoD have had an opportunity to discuss the matter."

This I believe is in keeping within the spirit of Transparency while at the same time giveing the EC and the board an opportunity to deal with the situation.

As for who should have posted some kind of information on the AFA website, well, it could have been Mike himself, or for that matter, any member of the EC. As I thought everyone had learned from the last time things were kept from the membership, it just doesn't work worth a damn. All that happens is that the membership grows to mistrust and distrust its leadership even more. You(the collective) were elected to lead, so lead! As a matter of fact, this is, IMNTBCHO, one time where the President could have immediately stepped to the forefront and had the information posted. Absent that leadership, any other member of the EC could have and should have immediately upon receipt of the e-mail in question, called the office, verified the contents of the e-mail and then directed Mr. Nolan to publish an abbreviated statement, akin to what I suggested , on the web site, immediately.

In case it has somehow escaped your notice, the membership is really disgusted with the type, style and substance of the leadership it is currently getting. You might want to consider that and decide, in short order, how to change that perception and actuality.

Rick

[chockada]

Just wondering, who is the webmaster for the afa? Thanks, Gary

According to the logo on the AFA website, the webmaster is a company called Bite Web Design (www.bitetheweb.com).

[Ronald E. Kramedjian]

Just wondering, who is the webmaster for the afa? Thanks, GaryGary,

While he is not the full blown webmaster, Mike Nolan has been making most of the updates.

[Gary Hill]

Thanks to all! Gary

[Bo Terry]

Mr. Blombach,

The last time I checked, the "general membership" elects the leadership and they see to the daily deeds of OUR organization. So tell me, why would any information passed to OUR elected officials not be deemed for OUR use?

Rick,

You nailed it. We are disgusted!! :mad:

Bo

[Derin Foor]

Rick,

You nailed it. We are disgusted!! :mad:

Bo

and we should be........look, this isn't the G7 trying to head off WWIII. it's the AFA trying to take care of business for about 3,000 farriers, give or take

I'd appreciate not being treated like a 4th grader where someone else decides what I should, or should not, be privy to..... presumably we are all adults here trying to improve an association that has a lot of room for improvement

can anyone tell us what is so detrimental about information being made available to the general membership as soon as it is known? anyone ???

Derin

[TRIP HAMMER]

If the letter was not meant vor one to post in public view, then why was it realeased to such persons?

For you to say that the letter was not for Bo Terry to use is not a true statement. We do not kow how Mr. Terry came to possess such a letter (and I am not asking either) but he did.

Tony,

That letter states clearly it's intended audience and it's not you, unless you are a Board member. Since an individual used somewhat dubious judgement and as you say "aired the AFA's dirty laundry" for all the world to see, regardless of whether it harms those people involved or others, I find disgraceful.

If you know what all the cir***stances are and chose not to disclose that information for some reason please let us know otherwise you don't know any more than the rest of us.

John

[TRIP HAMMER]

Mr. Blombach,

The last time I checked, the "general membership" elects the leadership and they see to the daily deeds of OUR organization. So tell me, why would any information passed to OUR elected officials not be deemed for OUR use?

Rick,

You nailed it. We are disgusted!! :mad:

Bo

Rick, Bo,

What part of the "letter to the Board" don't you get?

While I am in agreement with you about notifying the membership of his resignation, he chose not to.

If Bo has posting privaleges on the AFA site....do the right thing.

Please fill me us on the particulars.

John

[Phil Armitage]

1. Hey.. Where's your name?

2. OK - I might as well jump in here so I can get flamed. I do not often go to the AFA web site and boards until I see something here. This set of boards tends to be way out in front of the "official" site. I have noticed, however, that the worst seems to be suspected of everybody who posts here. In other words, these boards tend to sound like a soap opera where everybody has ulterior motives. There is news to be had, but it must be sifted from inuendo, insinuation, and back biting.
__________________
Jack Seyffer


One more post like that bucko and you're outta here

PS- Wassamatta Rick&Ron... Cat got yer tongue?
Don, your killing me, I can't stop laughing.

[Bo Terry]

Okay Gentlemen...now that we have gotten all wound up over this post, the question we should stop and ask ourselves is....What or who caused Mike to resign in the first place and what or who caused the big stink a while back over the Professional Farrier, taped phone calls, packages not being sent out yet for the upcoming convention,etc.....

This is what we should focus all of our energy on. Fixing what or whoever has caused all this ****!!!! If any of the enlightened ones have any good ideas or possibly some insight, we're all ears.

JMO

Bo

[Phil Armitage]

Tony,

That letter states clearly it's intended audience and it's not you, unless you are a Board member. Since an individual used somewhat dubious judgement and as you say "aired the AFA's dirty laundry" for all the world to see, regardless of whether it harms those people involved or others, I find disgraceful.

If you know what all the cir***stances are and chose not to disclose that information for some reason please let us know otherwise you don't know any more than the rest of us.

John

John it appears someone felt it was OK for Fran to post it on her Blog for public viewing. Mike is poseing for a pic and almost comes across as an interview.

[Bo Terry]

John,

I certainly understand what you are saying, however I also understand that murderers are released every day over a technicality.

Bo

[sweetbranchforge]

Okay Gentlemen...now that we have gotten all wound up over this post, the question we should stop and ask ourselves is....What or who caused Mike to resign in the first place and what or who caused the big stink a while back over the Professional Farrier, taped phone calls, packages not being sent out yet for the upcoming convention,etc.....

This is what we should focus all of our energy on. Fixing what or whoever has caused all this ****!!!! If any of the enlightened ones have any good ideas or possibly some insight, we're all ears.

JMO

Bo

If you'll allow me....
We don't have to look any further than the noses on our own faces, boys and girls.
The General Membership (that'd be us) didn't do our homework very well at the last election and we got exactly what we asked for... namely a Mr. Dave Fergusen, furguson, furgeson... whatever...
Think about it.
The NUMBER ONE concern of the General Membership (again, that'd be us) was some sort of health insurance... and you know what? We couldn't even get enough people to sign up for it to make a go of it... however you look at it.. regardless of it's functionality, not enough people showed enough interest to try it out and YET.. .that was the number one thing we all agreed we wanted.
Says a lot for our unity, huh.
Same goes for the pickle we find ourselves in right now.
We have a President who duped us into believing he had our best interests at heart and talked a good enough game to get himself elected. How many HOURS (not days or weeks or even months) did it take for him to start dismantling the AFA?
HE immediately alienated the head of the Education committee, tried to ... and may have succeeded for all I know... to get one of his family members/friends... whatever.. to take over control of PF mag.
People jumped ships or were tossed overboard rather, almost before the ink was dry on the ballots.
ANd while I'm at it... will someone tell me HOW IN THE AITCH EEE DOUBLE HOCKEYSTICKS we can even HAVE a legal election? I haven't recieved ANY formal notice from the office about who's been nominated, who's on the ballot... etc...
But I digress...
So here we stand.. uh... guys... you all got a little egg drippin from ya'll's faces...
And we want the Rick&Ron Show to lead us out of it?
Now THAT's funny!!!!!!
Time to get a grip and re-group I'd say.
But make no mistake about it.
We (well, I didn't) voted in a charlatan because we voted a name recognition conscious instead of examining the character of the individuals involved... along with their motives.
Shame on us for ... dare I say... not paying attention?
No wonder we can't get quality people in this association. The horse owning public is being serviced... the VAST majority of them anyway... by regular, free-spirited individuals who want nothing to do with any organization.. and looking back over the course of the last couple years... who can blame them?
Don't look now, but there are a lot of people laughing at us.

We may well have to do some real soul searching to find... seek out... the qualified people we need to get this outfit off the hoist and back in road gear.
What a tangled web we weave.

One thing's for sure though: I doubt ANY of you can put this at the feet of Mr. Davidson... kinda makes ya wonder if maybe he didn't have our interests at heart all along , huh..... you know... spending HIS money on us like he has and all..

[TRIP HAMMER]

John,

I certainly understand what you are saying, however I also understand that murderers are released every day over a technicality.

Bo

Bo,
I agree and I'm as disgusted as you are by the whole situation.

John

[TRIP HAMMER]

If you'll allow me....

Don,

When we look back, hind sight is 20/20. We can look back, but we must think forward.

John

[Gary_Miller]

I would have hoped that he would have come to the EC, but I guess he didn't so be it.The EC? I think if you look closer you will find out that the EC or at least Mr. Ferguson was the cause of the hostile enviroment. I find it hard to believe the rest of the EC has not seen this enviroment or even been subject to it.

My question to you Tom,, as the BOD rep, is. What if anything are you going to do about the hostile work enviroment and Mr. Ferguson?

I sure hope you don't look the other way.

[ranchoblanco]

Gary,

I thought you and Mr. Trosin made amends?

Mike

[vthorseshoe]

Don; As far as the insurance, and signing up for it. it wasn't available to the folks in the northeast.
Many of us called and tried to get it.
I called the insurance company along with the AFA office and inquired of both about its availability.
zero-zilch-no way jose.
Insurance companies are a great racket, but did anyone ask the vender if there was an area they wouldn't or couldn't cover ? If they did it sure was kept quiet. Cause all we kept hearing was how great an opportunity it was and to call and sign up. They needed a certain number of participants for it to work.
Well you can't sign up on a policy that won't accept folks from the north east.
We were all pleased with the chance for a group insurance and many of us would have taken advantage of it, if we could have.
It would have been a great thing if it was available so we all could have participated. Then perhaps it would have been a success.

[T.N. Trosin]

The EC? I think if you look closer you will find out that the EC or at least Mr. Ferguson was the cause of the hostile enviroment. I find it hard to believe the rest of the EC has not seen this enviroment or even been subject to it.

My question to you Tom,, as the BOD rep, is. What if anything are you going to do about the hostile work enviroment and Mr. Ferguson?

I sure hope you don't look the other way.

Gary:

How come evertime I find a peaceful spot for you in my heart you have to mess it up?

The EC as general rule is a pretty cohesive group that is of one mind which is what is good for the membership. Do we have our issues? Of course we do we're all horseshoers, so therefore we're all pretty independent characters but we do come together when it comes to the welfare of the AFA. We make our arguments and the majority wins. Do I like every decision? No. Do I support every decision, yes because that is what was decided.
As to the relationship between Messers Nolan and Ferguson, I am not privy to that nor should I be.

To answer your question, there is nothing I can do about a 'hostile' work enviroment that I have not personally been exposed to, so I guess I'll find out more over the next 15 days. As to Mr. Ferguson, he is the President of this association and I am charged with working with all executives to find soulutions not to make problems that need soulutions. As I recieve responses from the board I will follow the course of action that the majority asks for. In the meantime I will continue to work with the EC to make sure that the association works with-in the confines of our by-laws and policies and provides the services that we are suposed to.

[tbloomer]

Perhaps the BoD should have a hearing in front of the general membership at the convention. During the hearing Mr. Nolan could testify under oath about all of his dealings with the EC and the BoD over his entire tenure with the AFA. I suggest that he be given the opportunity to testify in the "narritive" and then allow the BoD and EC to "cross examine." Perhaps then the membership would have an opportunity to hear the whole story from Mr. Nolan's perspective.

Maybe if the whole story is put on record the AFA can learn something about itself. Maybe the membership will learn what happens when the quarterback calls plays and every member of the team has a different playbook. Maybe the BoD will finally learn that the only way to win is to create an official playbook and make sure that every team member knows every play.

Most of the biockering on these forums over the past few months has been about the qualifications, character, and intentions of the next quarterback(s) to be elected by the AFA. Once the election is over, it will be back to business as usual regardless of who is elected. Everybody running for office has their own ideas about what the AFA should be doing and how it should be done. So every candidate has their own playbook AGAIN!!!

[TRIP HAMMER]

Maybe the BoD will finally learn that the only way to win is to create an official playbook and make sure that every team member knows every play.

Tom,

This is what the EC and the Board and every other administration has tried to accomplish. Maybe this will be the right time.

John Blombach

[Bo Terry]

If the team is losing because of a "cavalier" quarterback, then take him out. Even with the upcoming election, the newly elected will not take office until 2008.

I personally don't want to deal with this kind of **** for one more year. Does anyone else?

It seems to me that the only thing we got for the extra $45.00 in dues is our very own soap opera.

I for one have spoken with my BOD rep. and made clear what I think should be done. I think everyone should!

Bo

[Rick Burten]

Tom,

Since the 'power' within the AFA resides with the BoD and not the officers, the BoD needs to step up and get on the same page. It shouldn't matter who the officers are, what should matter is that there is a playbook in the first place. This "playbook" is better referred to as a strategic plan, and if the events of the last year or so haven't convinced everyone that we need to get a strategic plan in place sooner rather than later, then nothing will.

Rick

[Gary_Miller]

Gary:

How come evertime I find a peaceful spot for you in my heart you have to mess it up?
Tom, don't dispare we really are in the AFA boat together. At this time I'm only a passager and you are a member of the crew and with your postion you in the control room. The problem is we are heading for a disaster at full steam. Us on the boot are really ticked off we see the disaster comming. We see that its the captain who is taking us in that direction, making bad calls along the way alianating the crew and passagers alike. But it seems the rest of those in the control room seem to keep looking the other way. Accepting
what the captain is doing. And ingnoring the pledes from the passagers to take control from the captain.

Its time for the BOD to do thier job begin a review of Mr. Fergusons action over the last 9 months and do something about it. If that means removal from his postion so be it. If after the review the BOD comes back with he's doing a great job he will stay then so be it he stays on as the president.

As the represenative of the the Board I feel it is you responsability to initiate that review within the BOD. Its time for the board to step to the plate and do what is expected of them by the membership of the asociation. After all that why we elected you all.

As a member I'm really ticked off at how things are going and seriously looking at not renewing my membership this comming year. The main reason for this is the BOD does not take their responsability seriously enough for me, and my membership has gotten me nothing so far as I can see.

Tom, I hope you can see why I ask the hard questions and where it is I'm comming from. And still have that peaceful place in your heart for me.



The EC as general rule is a pretty cohesive group that is of one mind which is what is good for the membership. Do we have our issues? Of course we do we're all horseshoers, so therefore we're all pretty independent characters but we do come together when it comes to the welfare of the AFA. We make our arguments and the majority wins. Do I like every decision? No. Do I support every decision, yes because that is what was decided. I will take you word for it. However it really does not seem this way to the general membership.

As to the relationship between Messers Nolan and Ferguson, I am not privy to that nor should I be. As the BOD rep and a member of the BOD you are privy to all matters that consern the AFA and its employees. Remember Mr. Ferguson works at the pleasure of the BOD, not the other why around.


To answer your question, there is nothing I can do about a 'hostile' work enviroment that I have not personally been exposed to, so I guess I'll find out more over the next 15 days. As to Mr. Ferguson, he is the President of this association and I am charged with working with all executives to find soulutions not to make problems that need soulutions. As I recieve responses from the board I will follow the course of action that the majority asks for. In the meantime I will continue to work with the EC to make sure that the association works with-in the confines of our by-laws and policies and provides the services that we are suposed to.
I can accept this answer. Thank You for your service.

[tbloomer]

Tom,

This is what the EC and the Board and every other administration has tried to accomplish. Maybe this will be the right time.

John BlombachIntentions are not plans. Trying to accomplish anything with a group of individualistic, passionate, fiercely independent people what make their living wrestling animals 5 times their size . . . you can't expect them to all be on the same page when there IS NO FRIGGIN PAGE!!!

WHO should be leading the AFA? What a ****** question. Leading the AFA toward WHAT?

Where is the list of goals? Was each goal defined after completing a feasibility study? Where are the task lists which must be completed in order to achieve the goals? What are the timelines and budgets for each task? When are the tasks reviewed and how is progress measured? Where are the contingencies and interdependancies between tasks and timelines correlated?

Does anybody reading this have any clue what I'm talking about? How can anyone LEAD an organization that HAS NO ORGANIZATION? We come to these forums and argue about integrity, honesty, and character as though those attrributes are going to decide the fate of the AFA. What a load of bovine excretia!!! The AFA doesn't NEED LEADERS, it needs A PLAN.

[Phil Armitage]

Intentions are not plans. Trying to accomplish anything with a group of individualistic, passionate, fiercely independent people what make their living wrestling animals 5 times their size . . . you can't expect them to all be on the same page when there IS NO FRIGGIN PAGE!!!

WHO should be leading the AFA? What a ****** question. Leading the AFA toward WHAT?

Where is the list of goals? Was each goal defined after completing a feasibility study? Where are the task lists which must be completed in order to achieve the goals? What are the timelines and budgets for each task? When are the tasks reviewed and how is progress measured? Where are the contingencies and interdependancies between tasks and timelines correlated?

Does anybody reading this have any clue what I'm talking about? How can anyone LEAD an organization that HAS NO ORGANIZATION? We come to these forums and argue about integrity, honesty, and character as though those attrributes are going to decide the fate of the AFA. What a load of bovine excretia!!! The AFA doesn't NEED LEADERS, it needs A PLAN.

I know exactly what your talking about Tom. Consider the discussions and arguments on this forum active participation and brain storming. The data collected is all archived on this forum permenantly. Is there a planning committee in the AFA? Or Plans department? If there is or if one needs to be started then they won't have to go far to collect data and ideas.

Tom, your not a member of the AFA anymore and pretty involved with Guild, why do you have so much interest in the AFA still?

[tbloomer]

Tom, your not a member of the AFA anymore and pretty involved with Guild, why do you have so much interest in the AFA still?Because like Tom Stovall I am witholding my membership in hopes that the organization eventually gets its act together and creates some educational substance. The Guild cannot do that. We are NOT an educational organization.

'nuther reason that I am interested in the AFA is because I keep receiving telephone calls and private emails from people on the inside. For some reason these folks think that I have a certain objectivity which allows me to see both sides of an argument - which I do. I see Dave Ferguson's side, Ron Kramedian's side, and all the sides in between. Fact is that every single person I talk to about the AFA has GOOD DESIRES and INTENTIONS for the organization.

The PROBLEM is that most folks get emotional and point fingers playing the blame game. It's not about WHO or WHOSE AT FAULT. It's about WHAT. The WHAT part is where "how we've always done it" runs into "this doesn't work anymore". The solution to the problem is a concise, well prepared, and FEASIBLE strategic plan.

Everybody agrees that the AFA needs a strategic plan. But, the actual task of WRITING the plan is a ONE PERSON JOB. So HIRE SOMEBODY to do that job and give them a deadline . . . Oh yea, and make sure that the only certification they have is either Certified Management Consultant or Certified Project Manager. The less they know about horses and farriers the better - BECAUSE THEY WON'T HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA. 'nuther words have the plan written by a disinterested third party. Once the boilerplate is created, then the BoD can review the PLAN and make changes.

There's your root cause analysis and a recommended path forward.

"NOW GO DO THE RIGHT THING" - Dr. Laura.

[Phil Armitage]

Because like Tom Stovall I am witholding my membership in hopes that the organization eventually gets its act together and creates some educational substance. The Guild cannot do that. We are NOT an educational organization.

'nuther reason that I am interested in the AFA is because I keep receiving telephone calls and private emails from people on the inside. For some reason these folks think that I have a certain objectivity which allows me to see both sides of an argument - which I do. I see Dave Ferguson's side, Ron Kramedian's side, and all the sides in between. Fact is that every single person I talk to about the AFA has GOOD DESIRES and INTENTIONS for the organization.

The PROBLEM is that most folks get emotional and point fingers playing the blame game. It's not about WHO or WHOSE AT FAULT. It's about WHAT. The WHAT part is where "how we've always done it" runs into "this doesn't work anymore". The solution to the problem is a concise, well prepared, and FEASIBLE strategic plan.

Everybody agrees that the AFA needs a strategic plan. But, the actual task of WRITING the plan is a ONE PERSON JOB. So HIRE SOMEBODY to do that job and give them a deadline . . . Oh yea, and make sure that the only certification they have is either Certified Management Consultant or Certified Project Manager. The less they know about horses and farriers the better - BECAUSE THEY WON'T HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA. 'nuther words have the plan written by a disinterested third party. Once the boilerplate is created, then the BoD can review the PLAN and make changes.

There's your root cause analysis and a recommended path forward.

"NOW GO DO THE RIGHT THING" - Dr. Laura.

I am going to compare this to a professional football team. We now have a great team in New England because of great leadership. It starts at the top all the way to the players. One of the most significant changes our team made was the coach. Coach Bellacheck (sp?) is always saying his team needs to focus on the future, the next game. Win or loose that is in the past and inorder to have a chance to win the next game they focus on the future. Sure they look at past mistakes to learn from them, but they don't dwell on the mistakes. They learn from them and make changes to do better in the future. The AFA needs to learn from past mistakes, play as a team and plan for the future. That is what makes champions or as John likes to say fly like and eagle.

[tbloomer]

I am going to compare this to a professional football team.Playbook? Professionals work from a playbook.
We now have a great team in New England because of great leadership.Playbook? Leadership creates the playbook.
It starts at the top all the way to the players. One of the most significant changes our team made was the coach. Coach Bellacheck (sp?) is always saying his team needs to focus on the future, the next game.Review the Playbook? Change a few plays? Update the playbook?

Win or loose that is in the past and inorder to have a chance to win the next game they focus on the future. Sure they look at past mistakes to learn from them, but they don't dwell on the mistakes. They learn from them and make changes to do better in the future.Review the Playbook? Change a few plays?

The AFA needs to learn from past mistakes, play as a team and plan for the future. That is what makes champions or as John likes to say fly like and eagle.Methinks John would file a flight plan before he taxis down the runway. There's more to flying than just facing into the wind and flapping your arms, er um ... wings. :)

[TRIP HAMMER]

bovine excretia!!! The AFA doesn't NEED LEADERS, it needs A PLAN.

Tom,

You are absolutely correct, now we just need to have a convinced Board and it will happen - maybe this is that time. I truly hope so.

John

[THamilton]

Highly doubtful at this point in time- IMO. I believe that the BoD is not going to have the cahonies enough to do it. When have they in the past? Why would they start now? They seem to be a passive group that likes to be reactive. Following Tom's advice which I agree with whole heartedly, would mean that they would all have to be on the same side and put away any diffeences so the AFA could move forward.

Are they going to do it? We will see. If the past is any indication of the future, it is hard to believe.
Tony

[Bo Terry]

It is up to us to contact our BOD Rep. and tell them what we want accomplished. I challenge everyone to do just that before the convention BOD meeting.

Bo :)

[Rick Burten]

It is up to us to contact our BOD Rep. and tell them what we want accomplished. I challenge everyone to do just that before the convention BOD meeting.

Bo :)
When you contact your BoD rep, tell him/her to also vote for the re-structuring plan. If we don't restructure the board then it won't matter who is at the helm of this ship. Like the Titanic, its going down and there ain't near enough lifeboats for all the passengers.

Rick

[Ronald E. Kramedjian]

Gentlefolk,

I have to call it like I see it and let the chips fall were they may fall and this is as good a place as any. Some of you are likely to accuse me of attack politics or negative campaigning or of just being an arse, so be it. But if you read and then think about what I am about to say very bluntly you will see that to accurately address the problems that are plaguing us we have to strip them back to their essential elements and look at them clearly. Sugar coating it just perpetuates the problem for everyone and I think we have had enough to last a lifetime already.

I fully expect that the doofi brigade will come out snapping at my heels after reading this and that is to be expected. They have so little positive energy in their souls that all they know how to do is to attack, attack, attack or to make *****ic comments ad infinitum that any fool can see are *****ic. You folks that doubt my opinion on this just watch and read the commentary carefully, if you haven’t seen what I am describing already, you will it shortly. So lets be about it….

So many people posting here decry what they believe is wrong with the AFA, they bemoan the various weaknesses and failures (human and organizational), they snipe, they complain, they manipulate facts and they refuse in most cases to give the good men and women that have voluntarily chosen to represent us even the slightest benefit of the doubt. They do not even give these volunteers simple civil treatment and respect when they are trying their level best to do their jobs. There are those of you who, because you have your own particular axe to grind, are more than willing to become a salivating attack dog for others that are to cowardly to come up here and fight their own fights and take the consequences of their actions. How is it possible that you are so blind that you can not think about how you are being manipulated and why whatever is being said to you is being said in the first place, or do you even care? And let’s not mention the complete and utter inability to apply some very simple logic to the basic questions that are facing our association or to think through the likely impact on our association before you act upon the information you have been given. Well folks, if you really what to know what is wrong, it is these kinds of behaviors that are exactly what is wrong with the AFA. Instead of engaging in the above I would think that they would be trying to find positive ways to express how things can be improved.

Now to give you a few very pointed examples:

Mr. Terry, I know how you mistakenly received a copy of Mr. Nolan’s letter to the BoD. But that does not justify your posting the full text of a letter written to the BoD about the employment matters of an employee of the AFA regarding his employment. What on earth were you thinking, or should I ask were you even thinking? I do not have a problem with you commenting on Mr. Nolan’s resignation. Christ, I don’t even have a problem with you saying that Mr. Nolan in no uncertain terms laid the blame for his resignation on Mr. Ferguson’s behavior and hostility during the course of his term as ED. But I did not elect you to any position of authority and neither did anyone else. So what gives you the right to expose the AFA to the potential of litigation over the breach of the BoD’s legal obligation to keep personnel matters confidential? Who vested in you the authority to make that kind of legal and financial commitment on behalf of the membership of the AFA? Did you stop to think about the potential legal and financial ramifications? Did it even cross mind that the decision to release the letter might be above your pay grade and outside your authority as a member? Hey here is an important one, did you even bother to call your chapter president and discuss the matter before you appointed yourself the PR Chairman, Personnel Manager and Chief Legal Counsel of the AFA all rolled into one?

The announcement of Mr. Nolan’s resignation should rightly have come from the EC and the BoD once they had the opportunity to discuss the matter and to decide, because it is their responsibility to do so, exactly how to make this announcement in a prudent and legal way. Goodness they might even have wanted have a talk with Mr. Nolan once he came into the office on Tuesday morning, given that I know from experience that contacting Mr. Nolan on the weekend is nearly impossible because he turns off his frigging cell phone. But we will never know what these well intentioned volunteers would have done because first some doofus leaked it to Mr. Gillis and then Mr. Murphy took over and sent it to you. What you sir should do is follow the example of the person that mistakenly sent that letter to you and write a letter to Mr. Nolan and apologize for violating his legal rights and exposing his private business to the public. Don’t worry, I don’t think Mr. Nolan is going to sue you, but it is not that you don’t deserve to be made an object lesson in restraint.

Now before anyone bothers to try to jump me for saying something that is counter transparency I refer you back to my original proposal and tell you to note again that the only exceptions to the requirement of transparency are personnel matters and pending litigation. I believe that this particular item obviously and unarguably falls under the personnel matters clause and the AFA has a legal obligation to treat these matters with complete confidentiality.

Now let us progress to the next example, Mr. Richardson. You have seen fit to come up here and spout your steadfast support for Mr. Fanguy and Mr. Elsbree. You have seen fit to attack my character repeatedly with the same old worn out garbage that the person called Nape trotted out. It would seem to me that you would have been at least smart enough to have checked your facts with credible sources and made sure that you hadn’t been hoodwinked into just repeating the same discredited claims that Nape made. I would have thought also that you would have avoided them even more knowing how completely Nape, the first person to proffer them, had been discredited in the claims about her background and education. I also would have hoped that you had more respect for yourself that to walk on ground that had already been plowed and poisoned by another if only to avoid being associated with them by reference.

Further, in your last post you are laying claim to some fit of superior logic and intelligence in that you did not vote for Mr. Ferguson. You suggest that the members of the AFA do something other than vote for name recognition and actually examine the character of the men running for office. So let us take a look at the record to date for the candidates that you so reverently yet paradoxically support.

Mr. Elsbree in his short posting carrier on horseshoes,com has told everyone that if you’re not a member he sees no need to interact with you and has since ignored questions in the candidates forum. In the last issue of PFM he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson and he has been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson and when he was quoted on this pledge in a note to the BoD he demanded that the quote be withdrawn. Would you say that his position on interaction with non-members is consistent with the stance that you expect the future president of the AFA to have? Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association? Is Mr. Elsbree’s pledge to support Mr. Ferguson, a pledge made after the first dust up, consistent with your position on Mr. Ferguson himself?

Mr. Fanguy has also been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson. In fact Mr. Fanguy was a key figure in helping Mr. Ferguson get elected, and has also committed to helping Mr. Ferguson move his agenda forward. How do you justify rewarding Mr. Fanguy with your support when the reality is that he is one of the people that made Mr. Ferguson’s rise to power possible? How do you reconcile your support for him with his committed support for Mr. Ferguson’s agenda? Have you really thought through your position and support? Or are you just responding to stimuli?

At this point Mr. Ferguson’s behavior in office is a matter of record and I suspect that Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Fanguy will both, being politicians, back away from Mr. Ferguson as quickly as possible, friend or no friend. Who knows, Mr. Fanguy and Mr. Elsbree may lead the charge and get the BoD to remove him as president or talk him into resigning. But I have to ask you, how does their changing position now after our association has had to suffer through the 9 months of turmoil that has marked Mr. Ferguson’s term in office make up for the fact that they with their long term exposure to Mr. Ferguson and all his faults missed the ones that have been so damaging to the AFA? I have to ask, was their judgment so clouded with vitriol that in their effort to destroy anyone or anything that might believe in farrier licensing that they chose to ignore the serious damage that a Dave Ferguson could have on the AFA and worked to elect him anyway because he was against licensing? Wouldn’t it have been more mature to support a better man and fight the idea of licensing in the board room? Do you think that they ever stopped to consider how much damage was being done, or could be done, to the fabric of the AFA by the very tenor of the campaign that was being run or if a man like Mr. Ferguson was elected?

Continued ....

[Ronald E. Kramedjian]

Continuing ....

Mr. Richardson, from another side it is also interesting to see your endorsements in the light of the fact that neither Rick or I have ever voted for or supported Mr. Ferguson and we have both limited our support for him as president, if we are elected, to those things that are good for the AFA. So I agree with you, everyone should take a good look at the history of the individuals and their character.

When Rick and I discussed our campaign strategy and laid out when we were going to do things, one of the timelines that we considered carefully was the Christmas to New Year window. We felt strongly that during that season we needed to respect the membership’s desire to spend time with their family and so we decided to simply send a happy holiday message before Christmas and then stay basically mute until after New Year. We believed that to invade the season with politics was rude so we made our decision based upon respect and because of our own personal beliefs for the season. And this brings me to my final example, Mr. Gillis. Mr. Gillis’ attack is so transparent as to not even warrant much response. However his choice to launch it on Christmas Eve and even sign it Merry Chrisman deserves to be addressed.

It is my opinion that Mr. Gillis while hypocritically claiming to be a Christian decided to launch his vengeance driven attack on Christmas Eve with the sole purpose of destroying what little peace there may have been to be had. Mr. Gillis by those actions it is also my opinion you have proven yourself to be completely and totally morally bankrupt and that you are so devoid of character and judgment that anyone can manipulate you into doing anything. To violate Our Lord’s celebration by taking a dump on the season’s purpose of reminding us of the good and peace that Jesus wanted us to all have in our hearts just further confirms for me what a shallow, hollow and characterless man you actually are and underlines how good it is that you are no longer the spokesman of the AFA. At least whoever manipulated you into your actions was smart enough to know that they needed to not get their hands dirty, even if they are too cowardly to take their own hits for being chicken ****. What further underscores your hypocrisy is your endorsing a vote for Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Fanguy. I am sure that anyone that knows you can see this endorsement for exactly what it is, given your already proven and rabid hatred of Mr. Ferguson. If I were Mr. Elsbree or Mr. Fangy I would be embarrassed by someone of your ilk endorsing me, especially given the way your endorsement was announced to the world.

Well folks, there you have three shining examples of the kinds of things that are going wrong with the AFA. If we really want the AFA to get better, we had all better go and have a good look in the mirror. Look at these folks and ask yourselves some hard questions about their behaviors and your own. Playtime is over. If we want the AFA to right itself then we the participants need to take responsibility for ourselves and stop tearing it apart from within. It is time for the mature men and women of the AFA to step up and be counted.

On a more positive note there was one very bright and satisfying moment in this holiday’s debacle. About midway through this mess RT Goodrich called me. His first words after I answered the phone were, “Ron, I just wanted to call to tell you how truly sorry I am this is happening and to assure you that I have nothing to do with this.” RT gets it. He and I made an agreement, the same agreement that I offered to Mr. Fanguy and that he has rejected. We agreed to run a forward looking and positive campaign and he has been keeping his word across the board even though he has withdrawn from the race. RT Goodrich is exactly the kind of person I want to see reenergized by this election and reengaged in working to support the AFA. I want to see men and women that are mature enough and wise enough to know that we can fight an idea with other ideas and that we need not try to destroy the person that presented it as a means to defeating the idea.

Outside of a few posts of this forum, Rick and I are telling people our ideas and asking for them to think about them. We are running a forward looking and positive campaign. It saddens me that there are so many negative people here and that instead of just asking honest questions, these people need to bring their negativity to bear in their efforts to damage any good that can be done by an open debate. The AFA is in a crisis, it needs people that will do the hard jobs and will take the hard stands even if they are not the most popular stands.

Like I said at the beginning of this post, the problem is the behavior of a subset of the membership. There is a very small group, mostly behind the scenes, that has been and are stirring the pot. Frankly they need to stop, or they need to be identified and exposed for the damaging individuals that they are. These people and their behaviors are much like roaches, when you flip on the light they scurry into the shadows. It is one thing to speak up for improvement, it is entirely another thing to work so hard to destroy the very thing that you claim to love. Personally I think it is time that we turn on some halogen lamps and make sure that we illuminate every corner of the AFA so the roaches leave and never come back.

Do I think that I can solve the AFA’s problems? No!!! I think and believe that the good men and women of the AFA can solve the AFA’s problems if they have the kind of leadership that will always tell them the truth, even when it hurts. I believe that the good men and women of the AFA can be energized and lead into using their better judgment and character for the good of the association if they fully understand the issues that we are faced with and how damaging to the AFA our baser impulses are. I believe that when the members see someone that can not be bought, manipulated or intimidated into a course of action or a position that could hurt the AFA over the long term they will follow that person and that things will improve. That is why I nominated Rick Burten and why I agreed to run with him.

HONESTY, INTEGRETY AND TRANSPARENCY are more than words, they are guide posts, shining beacons and demanding task masters. They are the only way the AFA will have a chance for survival into the future.

[Bo Terry]

Ron,

Let me first say, that I too am thankful to those elected who give their time to OUR organization, however, when, in my opinion, some have crossed lines and brought nothing but problems why should they be protected. The U.S. president certainly isn't.

How many times must you be reminded that all your legal mumbo-jumbo from the corporate world doesn't apply here. WE are the AFA. WE employee these people. Not the other way around as you may be so used to in the "corporate world" you speak of. Remember why you started shoeing horses in the first place? It is OUR BOD's job to relay information about what goes on within our organization...not to filter it!

I'm certainly not regretful for posting Mr. Nolan's resignation. The AFA has enough that goes on behind closed doors. Isn't this your whole campaign....Transparency, ahh Ron. Would it be transparent enough for you for me to reveal your exact words about Mike's resignation being shared? I'm sure that would leave a sore spot. The only reason you received the email was because you are a candidate. Otherwise, you Ron, are just part of the general membership like the rest of us. What gives you the right to jump down anyone's throat?

If you haven't noticed, or took the time to read the entire thread, my intention has been to focus on why this came about and what steps should be done to fix it. We have already had enough controversy.

BO :)

[Bo Terry]

Ron in blue

I think and believe that the good men and women of the AFA can solve the AFA’s problems if they have the kind of leadership that will always tell them the truth, even when it hurts.

Bingo....the truth, even when it hurts. Not sugar coated, not filtered....the truth.

[Bo Terry]

Ron,

Being the professional you claim to be, let me point out a couple of things that seem to speak otherwise.

1. Attempting to discredit those that are running against you.

Ron in blue

Mr. Elsbree in his short posting carrier on horseshoes,com has told everyone that if you’re not a member he sees no need to interact with you and has since ignored questions in the candidates forum. In the last issue of PFM he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson and he has been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson and when he was quoted on this pledge in a note to the BoD he demanded that the quote be withdrawn. Would you say that his position on interaction with non-members is consistent with the stance that you expect the future president of the AFA to have? Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association? Is Mr. Elsbree’s pledge to support Mr. Ferguson, a pledge made after the first dust up, consistent with your position on Mr. Ferguson himself?

Mr. Fanguy has also been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson. In fact Mr. Fanguy was a key figure in helping Mr. Ferguson get elected, and has also committed to helping Mr. Ferguson move his agenda forward. How do you justify rewarding Mr. Fanguy with your support when the reality is that he is one of the people that made Mr. Ferguson’s rise to power possible? How do you reconcile your support for him with his committed support for Mr. Ferguson’s agenda? Have you really thought through your position and support? Or are you just responding to stimuli?

At this point Mr. Ferguson’s behavior in office is a matter of record and I suspect that Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Fanguy will both, being politicians, back away from Mr. Ferguson as quickly as possible, friend or no friend. Who knows, Mr. Fanguy and Mr. Elsbree may lead the charge and get the BoD to remove him as president or talk him into resigning. But I have to ask you, how does their changing position now after our association has had to suffer through the 9 months of turmoil that has marked Mr. Ferguson’s term in office make up for the fact that they with their long term exposure to Mr. Ferguson and all his faults missed the ones that have been so damaging to the AFA? I have to ask, was their judgment so clouded with vitriol that in their effort to destroy anyone or anything that might believe in farrier licensing that they chose to ignore the serious damage that a Dave Ferguson could have on the AFA and worked to elect him anyway because he was against licensing? Wouldn’t it have been more mature to support a better man and fight the idea of licensing in the board room? Do you think that they ever stopped to consider how much damage was being done, or could be done, to the fabric of the AFA by the very tenor of the campaign that was being run or if a man like Mr. Ferguson was elected?

2. Calling people...dues paying members just like yourself....doofus and f&&&ing idi*ts. (Ring a bell???)

Seems to me like your little ship is sinking and you are just ticked off about it. It's unfortunate for your counterpart.

For what it's worth....I do wish every candidate the very best!

JMO

Bo

[Bo Terry]

Rick,

Don't know that I agree with the BOD restructuring. I think that info. needs to be passed to them sooner so that they can make informed decisions. I think this all goes back to one thing....Leadership.

We can pick anything apart, but usually the problem always goes back to Leadership.

It must start at the top.

Semper Fi

Bo

[TRIP HAMMER]

Ron,

I'm certainly not regretful for posting Mr. Nolan's resignation. BO :)

Bo,

Mr Nolan's resignation to the Board was not addressed to you or this public forum, therefore you had no right nor business posting it.

You may, however air your own dirty laundry at will, but it is disgraceful for you to air Mr. Nolan's laundry. Had he wanted his resignation posted it here it would have been addressed as such.

Mr Nolan posted his intentions on the AFA website as he saw fit with the information he wished. You owe Mike Nolan at least an apology.

Respectfully,

John Blombach

[Bo Terry]

John,

I certainly did not intend for this to impact Mr. Nolan. God bless him for enduring as long as he did. I am certainly not above apologizing to Mike if indeed I did harm him in any way.

Bo

[Phil Armitage]

Bo,

Mr Nolan's resignation to the Board was not addressed to you or this public forum, therefore you had no right nor business posting it.

You may, however air your own dirty laundry at will, but it is disgraceful for you to air Mr. Nolan's laundry. Had he wanted his resignation posted it here it would have been addressed as such.

Mr Nolan posted his intentions on the AFA website as he saw fit with the information he wished. You owe Mike Nolan at least an apology.

Respectfully,

John Blombach

John excuse me for interjecting here. I understand what you are saying, however Mr. Nolan's resignation and his opinions were released on Fran Jurga's blog. This has been mentioned on this thread a couple of times and seems to have been overlooked. I do not get the impression that Bo did or meant any harm.

[Rick Burten]

Bo,

Mr Nolan's resignation to the Board was not addressed to you or this public forum, therefore you had no right nor business posting it.

You may, however air your own dirty laundry at will, but it is disgraceful for you to air Mr. Nolan's laundry. Had he wanted his resignation posted it here it would have been addressed as such.

Mr Nolan posted his intentions on the AFA website as he saw fit with the information he wished. You owe Mike Nolan at least an apology.

Respectfully,

John Blombach
John,
While you and I have had our civil disagreements, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you in what you have said here.
Calling people...dues paying members just like yourself....doofus and f&&&ing idi*ts.
When the shoe fits............
Don't know that I agree with the BOD restructuring. I think that info. needs to be passed to them sooner so that they can make informed decisions.
Given its current structure,I don't care how much information you give the board. It is, has has been, for the most part, inefficient, unwieldy, disfunctional and an impedence to properly managing the affairs of the AFA. And under the current structure, as new chapters are added, it will only get worse. And, since the board only represents the interests of a minority of the membership of the AFA, it is also disenfranchising the majority of the membership. A situation that is unconscionable, unwarranted, and should be rectified immediately.
I think this all goes back to one thing....Leadership.

In its current incarnation, ever were God and his son to be elected to leadership positions, it is MNTBCHO that not even they could effect effective leadership.
n my opinion, some have crossed lines and brought nothing but problems why should they be protected. The U.S. president certainly isn't.
Apples and oranges. When you posted Mr. Nolan's e-mail you broached the legal requirement for confidentiality in personnel matters. Plain and simple, you screwed the pooch.
How many times must you be reminded that all your legal mumbo-jumbo from the corporate world doesn't apply here.
Sorry Bo, there is no "legal mumbo-jumbo here" and whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, the law is still the law and you may well have broken it.
It is OUR BOD's job to relay information about what goes on within our organization...not to filter it!
It is their job to filter it when and only when they are required by law to do so. In this instance, law trumps all else.
I'm certainly not regretful for posting Mr. Nolan's resignation.
Given what you did, you should be. Had you not posted the e-mail, rather had you simply made a statement that you had received information that Mr. Nolan had resigned, I would have no quarrel with you. You would have maintained the spirit and the letter of the law and at the same time conveyed accurate information. That, is transparency.
The AFA has enough that goes on behind closed doors. Isn't this your whole campaign....Transparency,
See above.
The only reason you received the email was because you are a candidate. Otherwise, you Ron, are just part of the general membership like the rest of us. What gives you the right to jump down anyone's throat?
The same right as I have. You screwed the pooch and you got called on it.

Best thing now is to learn from this and move on.

Rick

[Rick Burten]

John excuse me for interjecting here. I understand what you are saying, however Mr. Nolan's resignation and his opinions were released on Fran Jurga's blog. This has been mentioned on this thread a couple of times and seems to have been overlooked. I do not get the impression that Bo did or meant any harm.
Point is, Fran did not post the exact nature of the resignation. Bo did. As I said to Bo, had he not posted the e-mail in its entirety, but instead posted something like Fran posted, I would not have had an issue with it.

As Tom Stovall might opine, the difference is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.....

[Bo Terry]

Rick,

If money details, etc.. were involved, then I must say that I agree and would not have posted the info. However, Mike's resignation said nothing to the effect, nor anything that we should not be privy to. He simply stated that he was leaving and why. Guess we're on two different sides of the fence on this one.

Bo

BTW...Name calling shouldn't happen under any cir***stances. This is absolutely the kind of quality we DON'T need in a leader.

[Rick Burten]

Rick,

If money details, etc.. were involved, then I must say that I agree and would not have posted the info. However, Mike's resignation said nothing to the effect, nor anything that we should not be privy to. He simply stated that he was leaving and why. Guess we're on two different sides of the fence on this one.

Bo
Bo,

I understand your perspective and while I agree that we are on opposite sides of the fence here, I respect you for at least being forthright.

Perhaps what is needed here is input from someone who is well versed in the proper procedure(s) and the problems that might arise from even an inadvertant circ-u-mvention of either policy or law.

Rick

[Bo Terry]

Hopefully we won't have any instances such as this to deal with in the future!

Good Luck!

See you in Cincinatti.

Bo

[Rick Burten]

Hopefully we won't have any instances such as this to deal with in the future!

Good Luck!

See you in Cincinatti.

Bo
If Ron and I have anything to do with it or say about it, we won't!

Thank you.

Yes, indeed, see you in Cincinatti!

Rick

[vthorseshoe]

Rick, as I read the post, would you say I have a handle on this now ?

Anything can be released, "as long as it is put in a context of "hear-say and not posted in its origional form" (without the permission of the scripts origonator)

But then we have the part of moral obligation, which rarely exisits in the real world. (yet pops up every now and then)

Isn't this all kinda like the, The president of the USA has decided to do such and such. We were informed of this by a government aide who asked his name not be revealed

Kinda like a chess game it seems to me.

[Rick Burten]

Rick, as I read the post, would you say I have a handle on this now ?

Anything can be released, "as long as it is put in a context of "hear-say and not posted in its origional form" (without the permission of the scripts origonator)

Bruce,
If you have the facts/do***ent in hand, and only say, for example, "Mike Nolan, Executive Director of the AFA has announced his resignation effective 15Jamnuary2007", then this is not hear-say, it is fact that preserves the integrity and confidentiality of the parties concerned.

If you look at the AFA website, you will see the announcement, much as I have proposed it should have been handled when the news was first getting ready to break. No hear-say, but no incriminating revelations either.

By the way, that shoe in your avatar is the ugliest square toe shoe I have ever seen! :D

Rick

[beslagsmed]

By the way, that shoe in your avatar is the ugliest square toe shoe I have ever seen! :D

Rick

Not to change the subject any, but the shoe looks to me like it is a workhorse shoe with a toe grab, but a square toe shoe. We use to put those on our mules when packing in the Rockys.
Mikel

[Rick Burten]

Not to change the subject any, but the shoe looks to me like it is a workhorse shoe with a toe grab, but a square toe shoe. We use to put those on our mules when packing in the Rockys.
Mikel
Mikel,

I was just trying to be humorous.

Rick

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Rick Burten in gray, deletia

By the way, that shoe in your avatar is the ugliest square toe shoe I have ever seen! :D

Looks like a draft horse work shoe or one used in pulling contests - that's a helluva big toe grab.

We don't jump weld much down here. I saw a pretty damn good farrier forging a pair of draft horse pulling shoes in a TPFA forging contest knock the grab off one of his shoes when he was doing a final bit of cleaning up just before turning it in. Since he was about out of time, he dunked his masterpiece into his water bucket to cool it off, dried it off with his sweat towel, duct taped the grab to the shoe, and turned it in.

He didn't place. :)

[vthorseshoe]

Rick,
That is a special Arab Shoe. It weighs so much it keeps the short barreled sucker from over reaching. :D

It can also be used for an animal that jigs a lot. About 1 hour after putting these shoe's on he/she will be so tired they will perform like an old trooper. :p

In reality it was a demo shoe made for me by Dallas Morgan.
One heck of a clinician.

Rick, take a moment and look at "an aging draft shoer" on general board.

[Roy Amaral CJF]

Hopefully we won't have any instances such as this to deal with in the future!


Have we changed anything? If we haven't and we're expecting diffrent results, there's a word for that. ;)

[dbfarrier]

well said.........the membership has a right to know EVERYTHING that goes on within the organization to which they pay dues

Derin

Speaking of dues, I would like to know what my dues are doing right now

[Cyber Farrier]

db, if you don't want your posts removed, you'd better start signing your real name on them, at least in the Political Arena posts.

Baron

[AndrewCJF]

Mr. Elsbree in his short posting carrier on horseshoes,com has told everyone that if you’re not a member he sees no need to interact with you and has since ignored questions in the candidates forum.WHAT I SAID: Non-members should get their info from the AFA, not individual political candidates.

WHAT RON HEARD: he sees no need to interact with you.


In the last issue of PFM he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson and he has been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson and when he was quoted on this pledge in a note to the BoD he demanded that the quote be withdrawn.
WHAT I SAID: I decided to run for office to support, and bring to life, the new administraion's vision for the AFA, including, but not limited to:
• redefining the AFAs purpose and service to members
• creating a clear, concise identity for the AFA within the horse industry
• growing and improving educational aspects of the AFA

WHAT RON HEARD: he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson.....

A FACT OF THE MATTER: RT Goodrich had the same reading comprehension problem as you Ron. I asked that he fix it, he did and apologised.


Would you say that his position on interaction with non-members is consistent with the stance that you expect the future president of the AFA to have?
FACT: I have donated many days of my time to represent the AFA at multiple EQUINE AFFAIRE's and MANY other clinics and certifications. I have interacted with members and non-members in the best interest of the AFA. My only goal is to further the AFA.

Ron, how do you think your sarcastic posts and overall negative public campaign will make the AFA more appealing to non-members?


Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association?
FACT: I have always done this in person, in magazines and on television.


Is Mr. Elsbree’s pledge to support Mr. Ferguson, a pledge made after the first dust up, consistent with your position on Mr. Ferguson himself?
AGAIN, WHAT I SAID: I decided to run for office to support, and bring to life, the new administraion's vision for the AFA, including, but not limited to:
• redefining the AFAs purpose and service to members
• creating a clear, concise identity for the AFA within the horse industry
• growing and improving educational aspects of the AFA

AGAIN, WHAT RON HEARD: he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson.....

Ron, does Ferguson = the entire AFA administration?

Ron, it seems as though all you want to portray is the turmoil of the last year and all of Ferguson’s faults. They may or may not be true; what is true is that the majority of AFA members voted for Ferguson. Why don’t you just come out and tell the majority that their vote was worthless. What they voted for doesn’t matter. Rick and Ron, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. You are unwilling to accept any solution except to do away with those you disagree with. How can you possibly lead the AFA this way? There will always be some one in the organization that you disagree with.

Furthermore, where have Mr Taylor and Mr Earle been? They managed to stay out of sight and off the chat boards while you and Rick continue to fuel the fires of discontent within our association.

It is true that Dave Ferguson is a friend of mine, as is Rick Burten. I have often disagreed with both men in matters concerning the AFA. Like these two gentlemen, I have many friends in the AFA. Many times we agree, many times we disagree. I have spent days upon days volunteering my time in committeee meetings and debates for the betterment of the AFA; and have always done what Andrew Elsbree thought was best for the AFA, and have always supported the decisions made by the committees I have belonged to. For example, I championed the fight against the accidental death and dismemberment policy which the BOD deciced to implement. One year after the Board’s implementation of this policy, as the Chair of the Members Benefits Committee, I renegotiated the cost of this policy. The money saved as a result of my negotiations was help to fund the hiring of the first ED, while simulatneously maintaining the accidental death and dimemberment policy benefits. The Certification Committee has taken many days of my time which I contributed gladly to support all that the committee does and to make the AFA certification program the best in the world. I failed my journeyman test 4 times. I did not cry about the standard, inaccuracy of testers or unfairness of examiners, instead, I attended clinics; I practiced and improved my skills until I was able to meet the challenge of the AFA standard. To this day, everything I do is designed to try to improve in my skill set for the purpose of passing that hoofcare knowledge on to others; AFA member or not.

I envision the AFA as an organization that represents excellence in farriery and educational opportunities for both horse owners and farriers, not the ugly dysfuncational organization you and Rick have worked so hard to portray.

Whatever the whole story is with the EC is unclear; yet what is clear is that those of you that continue to fan the flames of discord have brought the AFA to its knees. For you there is only one solution and that’s to continually discredit and remove from office those that you disagree with. You even attempt to discredit me by taking my words out of context, and then paint me as a bad person to serve the AFA because I am friends with Dave Ferguson.

The bottom line is that we are volunteers. I, like many others, have worked for years spending my own money and my own time trying to make the AFA a better place to be for all. The donation of my time and talents to the AFA is not for the advancement of any personal agenda; it is for the advancement of the next generation of AFA farriers. In giving of my time, I have found that the help I have received back has helped me grow my own talents more than I could have ever imagined. That is what the heart of the AFA is all about; Farriers helping Farriers to be better at what they do everyday...not the senseless bashing of people who donate their time to the AFA.

[Rick Burten]

WHAT I SAID: Non-members should get their info from the AFA, not individual political candidates.
Actually Andrew this is what you said: "I will be pleased to answer all AFA members questions with regard to my candidacy on the AFA website"

Then you said: "Why would non-AFA members have questions for AFA Candidates?

After which you posted: "My candidacy is about making non-members feel that the AFA is an important organization to belong to."

Seems difficult to reconcile your statements with each other. I'm confused and I'll bet others are too.
WHAT RON HEARD: he sees no need to interact with you.
It wasn't just Ron who heard that. Several others including Ray Steele, Phil Armitage, and Ben were confounded by your statements.(http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3683&page=1, posts 9, 10,11,12)
AGAIN, WHAT I SAID: I decided to run for office to support, and bring to life, the new administraion's vision for the AFA,
AGAIN, WHAT RON HEARD: he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson.....
Again, I'm confused. Isn't that, in essence, what you just said?
Ron, does Ferguson = the entire AFA administration?
I realize that I'm not Ron, but I'm part and parcel of this whole debate, so, in answer to your question, No, Mr. Ferguson thankfully is not the entire AFA administration. But as the titular head of the AFA, his 'vision', actions and agenda, are what is perceived as the direction and plan of the AFA.
it seems as though all you want to portray is the turmoil of the last year and all of Ferguson’s faults.
When one chooses to live in a fishbowl, one must accept that one is going to be scrutinized. Something to bear in mind should you be fortunate enough to prevail in the election.
what is true is that the majority of AFA members voted for Ferguson.
Well, what actually is true is not that a majority of AFA members voted for Mr. Ferguson, but that a majority of those who chose to vote, voted for Mr. Ferguson. A small, but important and significant difference. Now, in light of the events of the past eleven months, were the electorate fully informed of what has transpired, is it your opinion/belief that Mr. Ferguson would receive a "vote of confidence" from said electorate?
Why don’t you just come out and tell the majority that their vote was worthless.
You draw an incorrect conclusion. Their vote was quite worthwhile. However, that was then and this is now. The situation is changed. Again I ask you, if a vote was taken today and the membership had all the facts at hand, do you believe that Mr. Ferguson would be retained in office. And to the point, would you vote to retain him in office?
Rick and Ron, you just keep saying the same thing over and over.
So? Is what I/we have said, incorrect? Is my/our position untenable? If so, why?
You are unwilling to accept any solution except to do away with those you disagree with.
Not true at all. Check the facts a bit more closely and you'll find that it is not about agreeing or disagreeing. It is about actions of impropriety, ethical corruption, and leadership failure.
How can you possibly lead the AFA this way?
With Honesty, Integrity and Transparency. Three things that apparently have escaped the grasp of some of the current leadership.
There will always be some one in the organization that you disagree with.
And their viewpoint will always be welcome and considered.
Furthermore, where have Mr Taylor and Mr Earle been? They managed to stay out of sight and off the chat boards while you and Rick continue to fuel the fires of discontent within our association.
You'll have to ask those gentlemen about their whereabouts. And, If speaking up is considered by you to be fueling the fires of discontent, then I well understand why you have stood mute during the past eleven months.
I envision the AFA as an organization that represents excellence in farriery and educational opportunities for both horse owners and farriers, not the ugly dysfuncational organization you and Rick have worked so hard to portray.
I haven't worked hard at all. The current administration is doing all the heavy lifting for me. And the thing about your vision is that while it is nice and is what all of us want, the fact remains that like a thrush infection that is covered over by what appears to be healthy frog, once the frog is trimmed, the underlying rot is exposed. And that apparently healthy frog, isn't so healthy after all. But you know what? Once you expose the rot, remove it and create a stable healthy foundation, the new frog that grows in is truly healthy. So it is with the AFA.
Whatever the whole story is with the EC is unclear; yet what is clear is that those of you that continue to fan the flames of discord have brought the AFA to its knees.
No sir. The shenanagans of some of the leadership of the EC, the disloyal and disruptive actions of a prominent member of the AFA acting as a vendor, and the inability of the BoD to act decisively and cohesively are what have brought the AFA to its knees. You would shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.
For you there is only one solution and that’s to continually discredit and remove from office those that you disagree with.
Not only is this disingenuous of you, it is also a logical fallacy.
That is what the heart of the AFA is all about; Farriers helping Farriers to be better at what they do everyday...
Something that has apparently been forgotten or never understood by some.

Rick

[AndrewCJF]

Actually Rick, here is what I said:

In response to Ben:

Non-members should go to the AFA for answers to their questions, not AFA Candidates. It is not that I think a non-member is insignificant, it is rather a non-member may feel that the AFA is insignificant. A non-member needs to want to join the AFA based on what the AFA stands for. The vision I have will make the AFA more attractive to non-members, but first, the non-member needs to realise the benefit of joining the AFA for his or her own reasons. My candidacy is about making non-members feel that the AFA is an important organization to belong to. See it here POST #17 (http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3683&page=2&pp=15)

My prior post was in response to Ron K., where's Ron's reply? Furthermore,
The shenanagans of some of the leadership of the EC, the disloyal and disruptive actions of a prominent member of the AFA acting as a vendor,... I'm confused..this is not very transparent, nor honest if you know something the rest of don't.

[Ronald E. Kramedjian]

Andy,

First, before you start slinging your brand of mud and making accusations perhaps you would have the curtsy of going over to the candidates section and answering the questions that you have so rudely ignored to date. I think everyone would like to see how well you actually interact with those that do question you, or perhaps you are more of the same imperial leadership school as Mr. Ferguson, you know the one that does not feel a need to interact with anyone that might question your opinion on anything.

A FACT OF THE MATTER: RT Goodrich had the same reading comprehension problem as you Ron. I asked that he fix it, he did and apologised.

Just so everyone knows what you are talking about here, in RT’s letter to the BoD announcing his withdrawal from the race for Vice President he made a statement about Mr. Elesbre’s commitment to Mr. Ferguson’s platform. Mr. Elesbre took exception to it. The following are excerpts containing the salient verbage. As President Elect, Andrew Elsbree has pledged to promote the goals of the current Administration RT,
"Pledged" is a very strong word.... Have we had any communications? Where and what pledge are you referring to? Please respond and clear this up immediately. This was in no way meant as a slam. If "pledged is the wrong wording then I am truly sorry. In the Sept/Oct Professional Farrier you were asked WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO RUN FOR OFFICE? YOUR RESPONSE WAS AND I QUOTE"I DECIDED TO RUN FOR OFFICE TO SUPPORT, AND BRING TO LIFE, THE NEW ADMINISTRATIONS VISION FOR THE AFA." I am sorry I said "pledged rather than "support, and bring to life." Since my letter was not about you I didn't feel the need to go into great detail about any candidates platform.It seems to me that your splitting hairs over this because you do not want to be seem as pledged to anything that might allow Mr. Ferguson’s current misadventures to harm your candidacy. Not because there is a big issue with word choice or intent.

Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association?FACT: I have always done this in person, in magazines and on television.I do wish you would listen to the people you interact with more. Every time I turn around when talking to the membership they say “anyone but Elesbre” over and over. When I ask why they tell me their individual horror story about how you have insulted or ignored them or someone they know.

Ron, does Ferguson = the entire AFA administration?[/COLOR]Well when and if Mr. Ferguson ever stops acting like this is true I will stop talking about him as if it is true. Until then I will endeavor in my feeble manner to remind him that AFA does not stand for the American Ferguson Association, it stands for the American Farriers Association.

[QUOTE=AndrewCJF] Ron, it seems as though all you want to portray is the turmoil of the last year and all of Ferguson’s faults.Why do you feel you need to defend Mr. Ferguson. If he has done nothing wrong there is nothing to defend. Everything that is said about him and his behavior should be seen as absurd on the face of it or if there is something that he needs to correct he should be man enough to correct it for himself and not send his lackys to do it for him.

Whatever the whole story is with the EC is unclear; yet what is clear is that those of you that continue to fan the flames of discord have brought the AFA to its knees.There is only one person that I am aware of that is the incendiary source in all this. Should he be removed, just like taking oxygen away from a fire, this fire will go out.

The bottom line is that we are volunteers. I, like many others, have worked for years spending my own money and my own time trying to make the AFA a better place to be for all. The donation of my time and talents to the AFA is not for the advancement of any personal agenda; it is for the advancement of the next generation of AFA farriers. In giving of my time, I have found that the help I have received back has helped me grow my own talents more than I could have ever imagined. That is what the heart of the AFA is all about; Farriers helping Farriers to be better at what they do everyday...not the senseless bashing of people who donate their time to the AFA.Mr. Elsbree, if you were a selfless volunteer as you claim you would not have felt the need to include any of this. The fact, in my view, is that you have never been truly selfless in your efforts. Rather you have given and now that you are once again chasing the Presidency, an office that eluded you when Mr. Trnka ran against you in a write in campaign, you are taking me on instead of having a stand up debate with your opponent and claiming your good acts to make your attack look more righteous in the process.

Now stop hiding behind your attacks on me and be a man, go debate with Rick heads up were we can all watch. At least fight and live or die with a little dignity.

[Rick Burten]

Actually Rick, here is what I said:
Yes, Andrew that is the full text of one of your replies. How does that materially change what I said? I may have the tatts on my neck, but it is you who are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Are my quotes of your statements inaccurate? Are they out of context? Do they not directly address/reflect how you have conducted your campaign to this point?
My prior post was in response to Ron K., where's Ron's reply?
By now, I think you will have found, for yourself, the answer to your question. In case you are having trouble with that assignment, you will find his reply at Post #91 of this thread. You might want to note the time of day that you posted your 'missive to Ron' and then when Ron responded. My rudimentary math skills say that the time lag was right at eight hours. Given the lateness of the hour when you posted, I don't think that is such a long stretch of silence, do you? Besides, its a heck of a lot faster and more forthcoming than what has, to date, been your modus operandi.
Furthermore,
Originally Posted by Rick B.
The shenanagans of some of the leadership of the EC, the disloyal and disruptive actions of a prominent member of the AFA acting as a vendor,... I'm confused..this is not very transparent, nor honest if you know something the rest of don't.
Well Andrew, what can I say? If you had been paying attention to what has been going on in the AFA of late, you would know exactly what I am talking about. But OK, since you might just win the election for President-elect, and if you do, you'll need to be in the loop so that you can perhaps find some way to step up and begin to lead the AFA, the shenanagans I referred to are the actions and activities of Mr. Ferguson and of late, at times, Mr. Blombach. If you want a complete iteration of the "high crimes and misdemeanors" of Mr. Ferguson, you can read about them in the various and sundry e-mail exchanges between the officers of the AFA, the officers and the AFA office, and both here and elsewhere on the internet. The disloyal, self-serving, contract breaking, AFA harming, prominent member of the AFA I referred to is none other than Scott Davidson. Had you been paying attention to the the Ink & Anvil situation you would have known exactly about whom I was referring. I hope that this is transparent and honest enough for even you.

You know what Andrew, anyone can blow sunshine and smoke up everyone's butt and give them warm strokes and fuzzies. It takes men with leadership ability to recognize problems, have the testicular fortitude to speak up and out about them, and to also propose what they believe are viable solutions to the problems, much as both Ron and I have done and will continue to do. You know what I mean, if one of those solutions is to excise the rot, then regardless of how that plays in the media, they say so.

By the way, you have not so adroitly, failed to answer any of the questions I asked, including two that I feel are most important. In case you don't remember the questions, here they are again:

"if a vote was taken today and the membership had all the facts at hand, do you believe that Mr. Ferguson would be retained in office? And to the point, would you vote to retain him in office?"

IMNTBCHO, your response or lack of response to these two questions will go a long way towards helping any undecided voters decide just who they should vote for as the next President of the AFA.

Rick

[Phil Armitage]

Since my name was mentioned I feel the need to respond. Pledgeing or supporting the current administration is no different than one saying they will support the Pres. of the US even if the person elected is not who they voted for.

As for Andrews remarks on non-members, I was a bit confused when it was originaly made here on this forum. However I see where he is comeing from. When I joined the New Hampshire Air National Guard I had an interview first with the Commander. He asked why I wanted to join the Guard. I told him I wanted to be closer to home. He appreciated the honest answer, but told me he prefered to hear because I wanted to part of the Gaurd family and team. I was a kid then and really did not understand where he was comeing from, as time went on I learned what he meant. Andrew is saying the same thing, he would like to get the word out of why a non-member should join the AFA. With that understanding maybe farriers will find value in joining and be a member that wants to be part of a family/team.

[Derin Foor]

Mr. Elsbree, if you were a selfless volunteer as you claim you would not have felt the need to include any of this. The fact, in my view, is that you have never been truly selfless in your efforts. .

Ron,

You are WAY off base here. Andrew was an examiner last year at a certification that I attended. One of the candidates, a young guy was attempting his journeyman practical exam.... he didnt pass.... Andrew could have said, "better luck next time kid....see ya" Instead he spent a very long time going over the horse with him, what was done right, what was done wrong and instilling a sense of 'you can do it' in this guy since he was visibly upset at not passing..... Andrew's selflessness probably kept this guy from giving up and likely helped to retain him as a member, willing to try again another day. Andrew wasnt looking for a pat on the back, he was simply helping a farrier get better the way someone undoubtedly helped him along the way.

Andrew represented the AFA well that day probably left with a thank you.

At the very least you owe him an apology for questioning his 'selflessness'.

Derin

[vthorseshoe]

Derin, I am staying out of the political end of this, but I also want to say;

When I took my CF exam, Andrew was the examiner and After "all" the exams and testing were done , he made every effort to explain and make it clear to folks where they could improve or do better on the next test,
He was never rude or walked away from anyone with a question before or after the testing was done.
During the testing his attitude and deminour (spelling ?) was every bit the professional.
Andrew put everyone at ease and let me tell you I was a nervous willy.
As a tester and represenative of the AFA Andrew was at his best.

Once again this is said without ANY political implication so please don't read anything else into the above.

[Phil Armitage]

At the certification I attended Andrew was very willing to help. He is a hard worker and when he is focused on a task or getting things orginized he is very professional. I found Andrew to be very approachable and helpfull. I got a lot of pointers and advice when I went for my certification and I know many others attending got the same thing.

[Bo Terry]

C'mon guys (Rick/Ron).......we are all fully aware of your stance on every subject one can possibly post here. But the hostility and arrogance with which you respond is becoming overbearing to say the least. While there are many things that I agree with you on, the lack of concern for others(not just Andrews, but anyones) opinions is rediculous and unwarranted. I think you may be better received to just stick with the facts and how we can better our association than constantly and arrogantly ripping people to shreds. But it's your campaign...proceed how you wish. ;)

I guess what they say is true...When all you have is hammer...eventually everything looks like a nail.

Bo

[Rick Burten]

hile there are many things that I agree with you on, the lack of concern for others(not just Andrews, but anyones) opinions is rediculous and unwarranted.
Where have I evidnced a lack of concern for other's opinions? Would you agree that if this were so, I would merely ignore what others say, rather than interact with them?
I think you may be better received to just stick with the facts and how we can better our association than constantly and arrogantly ripping people to shreds.
Have I not presented the facts? Have I/we not offered proposals for bettering the association? Should we let others do as you would have us refrain from doing and merely meekly stand by ? By now I know that you have figured out that is just not my style or personality. Remember, I said at the very start of all this(the campaign that is) that I would'nt change one thing about myself in order to try and get elected. I also promised that I would not leave the forums, rather I would remain true to myself and everyone around me. If that's too real or too honest or too rough for some, that is their problem, not mine. I have oft repeated that like Popeye, "I am what I am and that's all that I am..." Being anything else, presenting a different facade would be disingenuous, discourteous and disrespectful to not only myself, but to everyone else. If that's the kind of leadership you want, then I am obviously not your man.
But it's your campaign...proceed how you wish. ;)
Yes, that has always been my intent and action.
I guess what they say is true...When all you have is hammer...eventually everything looks like a nail.
What do they say about a pooper scooper or a vacuum?

Rick

[AndrewCJF]

Phil, Derin, Bruce & Bo,

Thank you all very much for your postings. I appreciate your kind words and support.

As an Examiner, I have had to deal with members/candidates at highly emotional times during certifications and I have always strived to handle this in a professional, sensitive and caring manner. It is so easy to shake someone’s hand and congratulate them for passing; in fact it's just a great thing! It’s much harder to explain shortcomings and failures AND convince them to keep trying when they feel so low. I spend a lot of time with candidates going over problems and demonstrating just how they can improve areas of the exam that challenge them and/or have caused them to fail. In the end, every candidate understands exactly why he or she failed the exam. But even so, there’s always that someone who is spinning up gravel considering the standard, testers and examiners to be the problem!

I have the highest respect for all those involved in the certification process; candidates, testers, examiners and the people that work so hard to put on these tests and clinics. It is a labor of love for the betterment of our craft within the equine industry.

It was heartwrenching when Ron K. attacked my personality toward AFA members and devastating to learn that any member would feel I ignored them.

I have taken my role as an Examiner to heart and consider truly helping young men and women rise to higher standard both personally and professionally as the MOST important aspect of the job.

Thanks again, Andrew.

[tbloomer]

I spend a lot of time with candidates going over problems and demonstrating just how they can improve areas of the exam that challenge them and/or have caused them to fail.As both an eye witness to and a recipient of Andrew's help and encouragement during my pursuit of AFA certification, I would like to say THANKS ANDY.

Also note that Andy showed up on his own dime to help at two of the certification events I attended. He just dropped in to lend a hand to anyone that needed it. I've twice seen him do a "Johnny on the Spot" free certification clinic . . . and I would have paid good money for the "free" education.

I'm looking forward to his presentation at the IHCS. :)

[Jaye Perry]

....
Also note that Andy showed up on his own dime to help at two of the certification events I attended. He just dropped in to lend a hand to anyone that needed it. I've twice seen him do a "Johnny on the Spot" free certification clinic . . . and I would have paid good money for the "free" education.

I'm looking forward to his presentation at the IHCS. :)Great TOM,

If I can get him to return my PM and or phone call, credence may apply to his so called run for an office.

1/17/07 PM to AndrewCFJ; no or non-response. Some people do not like tenured , hard questions with accompanied phone numbers for explaination of platform.????????

[tbloomer]

Great TOM,

If I can get him to return my PM and or phone call, credence may apply to his so called run for an office.

1/17/07 PM to AndrewCFJ; no or non-response. Some people do not like tenured , hard questions with accompanied phone numbers for explaination of platform.????????
When I see him at the IHCS, I'll call your number on my cell phone and hand it to him. What happens after that is up to you and him. :)

[AndrewCJF]

Below is the ONLY communication I have received from Jaye Perry. I don't believe in the "15 yr old good ole boy network". I had no questions for Mr. Perry.

I am glad to talk with anybody and answer 100's of emails and phone calls every day. Jaye, here are my numbers, 518 966 5936 or 518 755 4627. To date, I have no record of any incoming phone calls or phone messages from you.

I'd love to talk with you and get to know you. You don't need to make it look like I am avoiding you. The only communication I have from you is below to which I had no rebuttal or questions.

Best regards, Andrew.

MESSAGE FROM JAYE PERRY:

Private Message: politics
01-19-2007, 11:55 PM
Jaye Perry
Very, Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta ; up and down the East Coast
Posts: 1,480

politics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrew,


I had a long diatribe to your response. I lost it, but you sound like the same 15 year old Good Ole Boy network that has buried the AFA that is seen today-..

Today, if one looks at the organization, an ever enclosing organization that will only have a select group of membership. Others will move to REAL education and profiteering>

CAll Me if ya have any rebuttal or questions
Jaye Perry
Non- Certified Member, but a member.
404/964-4970
__________________
"Those who assume hypotheses as first principles of their speculation . . . may indeed form an ingenious romance, but a romance it will still be."

-Roger Cotes

[Craig Trnka]

Jaye,
I have lots of good ole boys help me. Jack Schwarz was the first person who told me to turn my creaser around. Shayne Carter took me off to the side and taught me how to shoe horses. Danny Ward sent me a check for two hundred dollars and a note that said, "you'll need a lot more than this to make it through your presidency".
I like the good ole boys (and girls) I've never been to a cross burning or a chicken fight. Good ole boys have keep me from starving to death. I owe more than I can repay and those people will always have a favor in me. Good ole boys always come in handy when your out of gas somewhere between Tu***cari and Clovis. I've had more Denali driving excutives write me hot check, than Some good ole boy who comes out of the mobile home with cash. I kind of think of myself as a good ole boy when its time for me to help someone.

As Waylon would say, "Just a good ole boy"

Craig Trnka

[Jaye Perry]

andrew-Jaye, here are my numbers, 518 966 5936 or 518 755 4627. To date, I have no record of any incoming phone calls or phone messages from you.

I'd love to talk with you and get to know you. You don't need to make it look like I am avoiding you. The only communication I have from you is below to which I had no rebuttal or questions.


Got you phone call yesterday in the afternoon. Busy; as we all are I will call you. My message to you went out last Wednesday BTW.

[Jaye Perry]

....... than Some good ole boy who comes out of the mobile home with cash. I kind of think of myself as a good ole boy when its time for me to help someone.

As Waylon would say, "Just a good ole boy"

Craig Trnka
Me too Craig, BTW "How's ya Mamma an 'em?";)

[AndrewCJF]

Craig,

Thanks for stepping in. I enjoyed your answer to the “good ole boys” conspiracy theory.

It seems far too often that those who donate their time and skill are viewed with a suspiscious eye as if they were only involved for some personal gain.

Best regards, Andrew.

[Jaye Perry]

AndrewCJF-Craig,

Thanks for stepping in.

Me also, glad that Craig can join in and have a good time.






I enjoyed your answer to the “good ole boys” conspiracy theory.

Yep, me too. Sounds like "Larry the Cable Guy". Good laugh for all!!:D Basic "down to earth" analogy.


It seems far too often that those who donate their time and skill are viewed with a suspiscious eye as if they were only involved for some personal gain.
I Love "Personal Gain". Along with every other human that nails hides. It keeps the lights on.



Best regards, Andrew.
Thanks for your expediate response. 1/17/07 to 1/22/07.
Week late but got a reponse:rolleyes:

[Craig Trnka]

Jaye,
You are a funny dude! I have to say that I find myself laughing at a lot of this stuff. I need to figure out how you guys do the blue box for paraphrasing.

Larry the cable guy-----------good stuff

Craig

[Rick Burten]

Craig,

At the bottom of every reply is a quote button. Click it and the entire reply will appear in the reply window. Then, at the beginning of what you want to quote, you write [quote].

Anything in the reply you are responding to you don't want to be part of your reply, you highlight and then hit "delete".

At the end of what you want to quote you do th same thing but put a "/" in front of the " q ". You can do this as many times as you want. For information on how to cute and paste, we'll need to have one of our more techno-savvie members guide you.

I think I got that right, but if not, I'm sure I'll hear about it and you'll get better instructions to boot.

Rick

[Gary_Miller]

You can also just copy and past the quote and name thats in the brackets at the beginning of the quote and the quote at the end.

To copy and past. Highlight what you want to copy. Right click on the mouse. Click copy.
Move your curser to where you want the copy to be places. Right click the mouse. Click paste.

I find it easier to copy past the quotes as I don't have to type so much.

[Craig Trnka]

You can also just copy and past the quote and name thats in the brackets at the beginning of the quote and the quote at the end.

/Quote Let's see if this works

Gary_Miller]You can also just copy and past the quote and name thats in the brackets at the beginning of the quote and the quote at the endmouse. Click paste.

I find it easier to copy past the quotes as I don't have to type so much.
Gary Rick Gary_Miller]You can also just copy and past the quote and name thats in the brackets at the beginning of the quote and the quote at the end
thanks for the info, I think it'll take a little mumbo jumbo on the keys though

That looked nasty, but thanks you guys

Craig

[Gary_Miller]

thanks for the info, I think it'll take a little mumbo jumbo on the keys though
Craig you need to make sure you include the brackets [ ]that are around the quote when you copy and past.

Here is an example: I left off "Q" in the word "qoute" in the example. If I had left the "Q" it would show up as a quote block, and you would not be able to see the example.

The information you want to showup in the quote box.

Type your remarks after the last "Quote" block and they will appear under the blue box.

[Craig Trnka]

Craig you need to make sure you include the brackets [ ]that are around the quote when you copy and past.

[Here is an example: I left off "Q" in the word "qoute" in the example. If I had left the "Q" it would show up as a quote block, and you would not be able to see the example.]

The information you want to showup in the quote box.

Type your remarks after the last "Quote" block and they will appear under the blue box.
[Here is an example: I left off "Q" in the word "qoute" in the example. If I had left the "Q" it would show up as a quote block, and you would not be able to see the example.]
Gary I think I have a little more grasp of it.

Thanks bud

Craig

[Gary_Miller]

Craig, it looks as if you have figured it out. Now all you need to do is delete what you don't want.


Gary

[beslagsmed]

Hey Gary,
Looking at the latest issue of "No Foot, No Horse", Idaho is not listed in any region. Don't you wanted to be represented?

Mikel

[T.N. Trosin]

Hey Gary,
Looking at the latest issue of "No Foot, No Horse", Idaho is not listed in any region. Don't you wanted to be represented?

Mikel


That was my Error Mikel and my sincerest to Idaho's 47 AFA members for that.

Idaho is in Region I