hoof wall sloughing?? (long)

[jillagin2000]

Hello - I've never seen a hoof wall slough so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is in fact that. So here's the story...
4yr old paint gelding shod on Saturday 12/4/04 (first set on rear, second on front) - left rear leg swollen on Sunday 12/5/04 and he's lame on it, I assumed an abcess from a hot nail as he was pretty fractious for the farrier (hard to hit a moving target) --
Monday 12/6 his leg is very swollen like a stovepipe from the hoof all the way to the stifle, really lame started him on bute 2 grams/2xday --
Tuesday 12/7 vet says it's not a hoof abcess suggests it was a soft tissue (muscle or tendon) injury and treat with standing wraps at night and limited exercise. continue bute --
Wednesday 12/8 still very swollen and sore (I'm traveling 3 hours round trip every night to see to him) and he's developed what I assumed was a scratch (called the vet and he concurred based on my description) but apparently was a burst abcess parallel to and above the coronet band...anyway the barn owner/manager didn't see it or didn't think anything of it and unwrapped his leg and stuck him out in a muddy paddock --
Thursday 12/9 swelling down but another burst abcess appears on leg at the fetlock (lots of **** and nasty stuff). I was desperate to move him to a safer/closer place and put him in the trailer for the 2 hour ride to his new barn by my house. The vet I usually use over here by my house heard my description and figured it was a hoof abcess and they'd see it in the morning. He's continued on 2 grams bute 2x a day.
Friday 12/10 vet comes out and says "if the infection is in the fetlock joint or tendon he's a goner", luckily it wasn't and the treatment suggested was furason sweat wrap at night and a keep clean bandage during the day, continue on bute same dosage, started on serious antibiotics (not looking forward to seeing that bill)
From Friday 12/10 to now - he's had two more abcesses burst for a total of 5 - 2 little ones at the coronet band, one big one at the coronet band, one at the fetlock and two more above that - same side of the leg. The swelling is mostly gone, just localized to the two new abcesses above the fetlock, continued on bute (smaller dose now) and antibiotics and blood thinners. He's much more comfortable on it now, able to walk at a nice pace and chooses to put his weight on it at times
Today - I notice there seems to be a bit of a curling of the hoof at the coronet band, I can't tell if there's weeping as there's lots of it running down his leg from the abcesses but I don't think it is. Does it make sense that he'd be more comfortable on it if the wall was sloughing? I'm continuing with the nighttime sweat wraps as there is still some swelling, then I use a light wrap of roll gauze and an antibacterial ointment.
Should I put him down???

I have a couple of photos at http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=234591225&ran=30217
but the one that shows the coronet band is kinda blurry, I'll try to take a better one tomorrow...

Any and all opinions eagerly sought!!!

Thanks,
Jill

[John Barney]

I tried to open your pictures and it said I wasn't the owner of the album. Maybe you can load them another way. I have never seen that many abscesses erupt at the same time. It sounds like he was quicked on almost every nail driven into that foot. As you said it 's hard to hit a moving target. It is also dangerous for everyone involved to try to shoe a untrained horse. If he absolutely must be shod have the vet sedate or lay him completely out. Better yet train him. As for putting him down, I would pull the shoes and give him 20 to 30 cc of penicillin a day for four days. I am not a vet so this is my opinion of what I would do for one of my horses. I have seen it do wonders. Nothing against vets but except for one I met about six months ago they seem to want to prescribe a different type of antibiotic that cost alot more when the farm and home store sells penicillin for 12.00 for 250cc bottle and it works great. Good luck.

JB

[Rick Burten]

I don't know that I've ever seen an abscess from a hot nail form, migrate and vent at the coronary band in four days.

Was the shoe removed and the hoof checked for nail quicks, bruising, etc? Have any radioigraphs been taken? Have other possibilities such as a spider bite or the like been ruled out?

Was the farrier called when the problems surfaced? What did he/she say or do?

Rick

[calshoer]

I seriously doubt that it was an abscess from a hot nail..because the leg would not be swollen only one day after the shoeing.
Pain would be present if there was a quicked nail, but not the swelling that soon. In fact a hoof abscess asa result of a quicked nail wil ake a couple of days to develop at the very least.
Given that the horse was difficult to shoe, I suspect whatever this is was already starting up before the shoeing and that contributed to his reluctance to stand.
Because of the rapid expansion and exent of the leg swelling and the number of abscesses (especially breakng out well above the foot), I suggest you get another veterinarian opinion ASAP. TODAY not later.
This could be something much more serious and potentialy fatal like a staph inefecton in the leg from an unnoticed scratch or cut or some wierd disease like Equine ehrlichia, either which could kill the horse if not treated wit hthe right drugs. I know two horses who died due to staph inections in a leg that went misdiagnosed too long .
As well ,yes the hoof capsule could indeed slough due to loss of blood flow from the swelling. Which in itself is not the end of the world if everything else is corected, but will necesitate eight months to a year of suportive hoofcare to regrow the hoof. Patty

[jillagin2000]

Sorry about the pictures, I'll have to find another way to post them.

My vet has ultimately ruled out a hoof abscess because the infection would have abcessed closer to the hoof not way up past the fetlock. My biggest question is how do I recognize hoof wall sloughing? If that was even just starting wouldn't he be markedly more sore on that leg?? Or would there be a period where he'd be more comfortable on it, maybe due to destruction of nerves? Also, at what point should I give up?
Thanks!
Jill

[jillagin2000]

oh yeah, some answers to your questions...
No, the shoe has not been removed
My vet has treated (and continues to treat) the infection aggresively, with Nexcel, gentocin, heparin, and isoxuprine(sp?). When the course of Nexcel and gentocin ran out he was put on SMZ. I am washing the leg with betadine 2x day and applying the furason sweat wrap at night and a light guaze wrap during the day. I am also cold hosing the leg 2x day, and hand walking a little bit 2x day.

Thanks again,
Jill
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=234591225&photoID=234592601&security=CdqWIi
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=234591225&photoID=234592796&security=dUeOqZ
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=234591225&photoID=234592913&security=hcqand

[blueridgeshoes]

The website for the pics says error- I do not appear to be the owner of the album. Any way to post them in your thread? Am I the only one with this problem- I'm assuming not?

[Double C Forge]

jilligan,

The best thing for you to do is when you go to place a post, go toward the bottom of the page to the big box that says "Additional Options" and then click on "Manage Attachments". There you can upload your pics and not have to rely on an online photo album that most ppl can't get into.

That should help you so you can get pics uploaded........and I can't believe that the vet hasn't requested to have the shoe removed........

Chris

[calshoer]

Glad your vet is already on the ball with the agressive antiobiotics.
I could not open your pictures. Try placing copies in your computer then just attaching them directly to the post here using the "manage attachments" function of this site.
You can recognise hoof wall shoughing by the development of a deep narrow crease at the coronary band (or just barely below) , followed by a distinct separation (disconnection) of the hoofwall at that point. Sometimes seeping of fluid in the coronary band wall junction.
Patty

[old heller]

i have seen nails driven in wrong start with limping and then erupt above the coronary band.if not recognized and nails not pulled i suppose it is possible for infection to spread upward abcesses are just a bodies way of trying to rid the poison if when nails are pulled unless they are already cant remember what i read watch nails closly they will be funky do what you are doing with hot soaks epsom salts 2 times daily and yeah antibiotics would be wise.

[jillagin2000]

Thanks all for trying. My photos are apparently too big to post.

Anyway, I put him down today, the infection had worked it's way down into the tendon sheeth of the ddft and there was no way he'd have a good prognosis with the whole leg involved in cellulitis.

[John Barney]

I am truly sorry to hear that. Wish you could have gotten more help here. A vet told me once that horses will sometimes load up or swell in the hind legs as a result of strangles. Was there any glandular swelling under the jaw? Once again sorry for your loss.

JB

[jillagin2000]

Nope, no glandular swelling. And thanks for the condolences. He was an awesome horse and deserved a much longer life :(

We think it was a micropuncture that allowed the infection a way under the skin in the first place and then just a general delay in accurate diagnosis and treatment is what lead to this.

[devonridgefarm]

Hello ...

My filly sloughed her entire hoof capsule last night during the night after having a serious leg tourniqued on a wire fence friday night. What do I do in the meantime while I'm waiting for a vet to call me? It's a long weekend here and I've been looking for a vet for several hours already today.. a little paniced!

How do I treat this right now?

Jocelyn

[Rick Burten]

Wrap it in a steril bandage--A baby diaper works well Tape it up securely, confin e the horse , give her hayand water but no grain. Keep the wound as sterile as possible.

[devonridgefarm]

Thank you for your advice... I did hear from my vet and he is very concerned that she lost the hoof capsule so soon... he feels that she may lose more than just her hoof capsule... that she must have lost circulation for a very long time. I did wrap as per your advice and we will see what happens in the next couple days.