Abcess? Did I do It??

[EEHorseshoeing]

I am a newer farrier and I accidentaly knifed out to much sole and drew blood. The horse ended up abcessing. What is the likely hood a horse will abcess from this. I told the owner, treated it with iodine and wrapped the hoof with vet wrap. I instructed the owner to remove the wrap in a day or two. I wanted it to caluse over a little, the horses where in mud 8 inches deap. 4 days after the trim the owner said the horse was favoring the foot ( LR) and the pastern joint was swolen and warm to the touch. I hoof tested and got no resopnse. I also knifed a little to get a fresh look and found nothing. The horse also put full pressure on both rear feet when walked/turned. I figured the horse had and injury. Just befor I left the stable owner mentioned the horse had gotten loose and ran all over the country side. 6 days after that I got a call and the vet found abcess in both rear feet. It was also stated that if I drew blood the horse was trimmed to short.(Duha) And that he had a couple of people look at it and they thought so too. I havn't talked to the owner since the last message. I know I trimmed the horse to short, I told him that but, did I cause the abess?

[Derin Foor]

I am a newer farrier and I accidentaly knifed out to much sole and drew blood.

welcome to the boards..we all have made mistakes......error on the side of caution and no one will fault you... get over zealous and there will be no doubt in the owners mind that you don't know what you are doing

The horse ended up abcessing. What is the likely hood a horse will abcess from this. I told the owner, treated it with iodine and wrapped the hoof with vet wrap. I instructed the owner to remove the wrap in a day or two.

it's very likely that the area could abcess...... your biggest mistake here was playing veterinarian........suppose you wrapped the foot too tight and he sloughed the hoof capsule... could happen.....better off to have them treat the foot and call a vet if necessary

I wanted it to caluse over a little, the horses where in mud 8 inches deap. 4 days after the trim the owner said the horse was favoring the foot ( LR) and the pastern joint was swolen and warm to the touch. I hoof tested and got no resopnse. I also knifed a little to get a fresh look and found nothing.

are you serious?!?!?... you knifed in an area that you KNEW was already too short.....the Giraffe award will almost always come with consequenses

I know I trimmed the horse to short, I told him that but, did I cause the abess?

perhaps, but that seems to be the least of your transgressions according to 'the rest of the story'

JMO

Derin

[Rancho JD]

when you invade sensitive sole there's your open avenue for infection. bacteria remaining in the hoof capsule after the sole has sealed and walled off could abscess. trimming to close even without bleeding can make weight bearing a pain, leading to bruising inflamation and abscess. from the vague clues and both hinds affected i think the problem is more than blood letting but lack of protection after a short trim. pay attention maaannnn...good luck

[EEHorseshoeing]

Thank you for your replies. I mis spoke I should have said I s****ed the area with my knife just for a cleaner look at it. I didn't actually take anymore out. Not that it justifies what happend but, the horse was very overgrown, young an silly. I do agree I may have gotten over zealous.
I will do my very best so this won't happen again. More frequent trimming would be a much better option for all.
Would it have been benificial for the the horse wear protective boots for a while? How should I have suggested the owner care for the horse?

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

Quite simply if you have to ask what would be best to treat and protect an open wound in a foot and in order to prevent infection then you should have called the vet in.

Not only does this mean you ensure you are acting in the best interests of the horse, but it also offers you a degree of protection in the event of things subsequently going wrong. The owner will not respect you any the less for calling in assistance - indeed will probably be more likely to forgive the error because you will have taken all necessary and possible action to make remedy.

As it stands what started out as a mistake resulting in an open wound, has now escalated and resulted in a lame horse and abscessing in both feet.

The owner should have been advised to ensure the foot and wound was kept clean and free from dirt and it should most definitely not have been turned out in mud with no protection. They should have been advised that turnout would be possible but only on such as a concrete yard and only if the foot was to be kept clean and protected from bacteria etc. They should have been advised to check that tetanus was up to date and to ensure that the open wound was regularly treated and hot salt tubbed daily and kept clean in order to avoid the risk of abscess and infection.

Likewise when you went back to look at the wound you said "you skimmed the area with your knife". If you wanted a better look, then the foot (if it was dirty) should have been soaked in hot salt water and washed and clean procedures should have been adopted. (Was your knife sterile? Was the wound cleaned again with anticeptic or such as iodine? Were your hands clean?)

The owner should have been advised to care for the wound until it had totally healed and there was no lameness, heat or pain.

I personally doubt that a boot alone would afford the safe wound management protocol I'd be looking for but if the wound was cleaned, dressed and wrapped first and at least twice a day and then with all inside a boot that would have been better.

[George Geist]

OK EE,
Heres what you do on one of those.

Fire up your forge. insert a piece of straight bar stock. While it is heating treat the bleeding wound with iodine.

Pick up a nice big flake of dead sole that you cut away off of the floor or ground and place it over the wound.

Apply hot iron from forge to this loose sole chip. Not too much, just cauterize to stop the bleeding.

I've done it before and it works. Never had any ill effects from it.

I know I know guys George has really gone off his rocker with this insanity right?

Well, learned this one from the cavalry manual. It really does work.

George

[Ronald Aalders]

Well if it's about stopping the bleeding, just get a handfull of spider cob and put it on to stop the bleeding. Hygiene? Shoot, it's natural!


Ronald Aalders

[Leslie Reinke]

Ron

What is spider cob?

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

Cob web. Surely you call them that??

[Rancho JD]

a dollup of sugardine on the wound carmalized with a hot iron. better yet, coagulation gauze that Corpsmen use to plug holes and stop leaks in wounded Marines is available to the public.

[EEHorseshoeing]

How do you all recommend I handle the situation now? I haven’t spoken to the owner yet. He left the message two days ago that the horse abscessed. I do realize he will not use me as a farrier again and now the vet has my name on the black list too. I know I can’t change what happened but, is there anything I could offer or do. When I cut the horse short I did apologize but, I am sure at this point the owner won’t remember. Should I offer to pay the vet bill???

[Rancho JD]

If you can afford to its not a bad idea. perhaps take it a step further, hold council with the vet and decide if shoes and pads will benefit this horse and suck up the cost of that also. as the new farrier in town you have the opportunity now to take the initiative and get the ball in your hands and a chance to avoid a tainted rep out of the starting gate. if the owner wants nothing to do with you at least they and the vet will know you tried to make things right.

[Bo Terry]

Take a deep breath, swallow hard and forget about it!!!! $*(& happens! :D

Bo

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

I'm with Rancho totally on this one. As you are newly operating its vital that you get the vet and owner understanding that you are doing the right thing and take some sort of remedial action to recover the situation.

That way at least you will leave it in their minds that you do care and are concerned at the mistake you made. Having a vet bad mouthing a new farrier is the last thing you need.

[jvzieger]

I've also gotta agree with Rancho on this. I've made similar mistakes in my past, and I've paid the vet bill in full. I've also offered my free services beyond that.

This has secured my good reputation with the vet and the owner. That approach has worked very well for me, and I recommend it as the responsible route.

Good luck :)

[Derin Foor]

If the owner is hesitant about having you work on the horse again (and they very well might be), offer to pay for the first shoeing by the farrier of their choice..... then be there to learn how to correct the situation (shoes, pads, etc)

just another possible soution to your dilemma

Derin

[Mike Bailey]

I have been kicked and injured by owners horses and have not had them offer to pay the bill. Like Bo said **** happens, and this probly won't be the last time. We all make mistakes and as long as they teach us somthing then we are making progress.
Mike

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

I have been kicked and injured by owners horses and have not had them offer to pay the bill. Like Bo said **** happens, and this probly won't be the last time. We all make mistakes and as long as they teach us somthing then we are making progress.
Mike
That's one way of looking at it but I'm not persuaded its enough just to put it behind you and just take it as a simple mistake and a lesson learnt.

I'm one who believes that farriers are "professionals" and to be a professional you have to behave like a professional and that means you take responsibility for your actions and address the consequences. And if the OP does something to mitigate his actions and recover the situation its going to be better for him in the short/medium/long term.

The OP said he's relatively inexperienced and made a mistake and then in my opinion, and that of other posters, he compounded that mistake and now there is a horse with significant problems.

This could still well escalate to the detriment of the OP and hence he needs to be proactive in managing the situation.

Possible Case scenario
If the owner is determined and the horse was valuable then there is a good case for negligence and a claim for detrimental associated loss and which could include loss of use, veterinary bills etc.

The vet who will have access to a lot of the OP's market can legitimately say that he's seen work that is substandard. When you're new in any business, you need to build a market and customer base and get their confidence and recommendations. The last thing you need is a professional that you should be working with bad mouthing you.

Rancho's advice was spot on - start with the vet - they're usually pragmatic and familiar with things going wrong and he needs to be on side for sure.

[tbloomer]

From your initial description it appears that the owner was not providing regular hoofcare for the horse. Thus, you got this client because they didn't already have a a regular farrier. From your description of the living envoronment and the horse's behavior, perhaps the reason this owner didn't have a regular farrier is because none of the regular farriers wanted to work for this owner. This is part of what happens when you are just starting out. You get the horses and customers that nobody else wants to do.

[Hopalong]

From your initial description it appears that the owner was not providing regular hoofcare for the horse. Thus, you got this client because they didn't already have a a regular farrier. From your description of the living envoronment and the horse's behavior, perhaps the reason this owner didn't have a regular farrier is because none of the regular farriers wanted to work for this owner. This is part of what happens when you are just starting out. You get the horses and customers that nobody else wants to do.
As a farrier over 30 years and a horseshoeing instructor, Iv'e seen more blood come out of the botton of a horses foot than could drown an elephant.

Call the vet? Are you serious? Talk about making a big deal out of nothing..

Some horses could be sore, depending on their inherent toughness and the ground surface...and if anyone's watching..

Others would never take a lame step..

Never, have I seen "infection" or "abcess" from this...unless a vet made up some story

The hot iron will stop the bleeding...tincture of time will cure the rest

[Rick Burten]

The hot iron will stop the bleeding...tincture of time will cure the rest
Who pays the damages awarded by the court when the judge finds you guilty of practicing veterinary medicine without a license?

Rick

[Rancho JD]

Never, have I seen "infection" or "abcess" from this...unless a vet made up some story Great! yet stories get told made up or not and take to the wind. for a new farrier approaching his first winter in business up north, new clients can come few and far between. It's his rep and business that could be affected. perhaps a nipping gossip in the bud course would be a usefull addition to a farrier schools protocol.

[Hopalong]

Who pays the damages awarded by the court when the judge finds you guilty of practicing veterinary medicine without a license?

Rick
Where in my post did I practice medicine without a license?

Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen blood coming out of the bottom of a horse's foot?

Tell me a ONE story of a farrier getting sued for your above mentioned quote.

[BS-Horseshoeing]

Mr. Hopalong, in a few states, such as mine, which is AZ, we have laws that have had to be rewritten because farriery in and of itself was considered under vet laws. And yes, if i were to open an abcess, the horse continued to be lame, and the owner felt like it, I could be charged and most likely held accountable for practicing vet. med. with out a license and it could cost me my whole business. In a litigious society it only takes one person to file charges and then you will find out how the laws are written and enforced in your state.

[Rick Burten]

Where in my post did I practice medicine without a license?

"Call the vet? Are you serious? Talk about making a big deal out of nothing.".

Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen blood coming out of the bottom of a horse's foot?
Nope, thats not what I indicated. I just don't make a practice of either bleeding horses or digging for abscesses. Your experience seems to be otherwise.
Tell me a ONE story of a farrier getting sued for your above mentioned quote.
Don't know of any. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen, I just dont even try to keep score.

But if you are telling farrier students or others that its OK to dig out a suspected abscess, etal, or that they should not involve the vet when the horse springs a leak, then I question whether or not you are giving them good advise. My take is, you're not.

YMMV.

Rick

[Hopalong]

Call the vet? Are you serious? Talk about making a big deal out of nothing..


Nope, thats not what I indicated. I just don't make a practice of either bleeding horses or digging for abscesses. Your experience seems to be otherwise.

Don't know of any. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen, I just dont even try to keep score.

But if you are telling farrier students or others that its OK to dig out a suspected abscess, etal, or that they should not involve the vet when the horse springs a leak, then I question whether or not you are giving them good advise. My take is, you're not.

YMMV.

Rick
Didn't think you had heard of any...neither have I , or from anyone I know...I think you drank the Kool Aid

You remind me of Chicken Little running around yelling the "the sky is falling" do you carry around a lightning rod, just in case you might get struck?

When students trim feet...blood flows from the bottom of the feet...and from themselves

I guess you'd have a vet standing by for "emergencies", what is it exactly you'd have him do?

When blood comes out of the bottom of a horse's foot, it's not a big deal..it just isn't. It's like a bad haircut.

And the fact that we have here a CJF, RJF, AYZ saying it is...

Is why I say in my profile that this business is a joke.

[BS-Horseshoeing]

Is why I say in my profile that this business is a joke. - Hopalong


A business you say you have been in for thirty plus years, that must have been your means of making a living, is a joke? You sir are an as*s.

[Rick Burten]

[quote]Is why I say in my profile that this business is a joke.
There is a joke in this equation but its not the business/profession. Care to guess to whom I am referring. Hint: its not me.

If students under your guidance are regularly spilling blood other than their own, then have you considered that your teaching methods might just need a bit of improvement?

Care to put a name to the school where you teach? Some of us may want to avoid inadvertently sending a neophyte there.

Just as a point of information, did you adopt the screen name of " Hopalong" because you followed your own teachings and advise and not only dug out a suspected abscess in your sole, but have bled your self while trimming your tootsie's nails so many times that you can no longer ambulate normally? Inquiring minds just want to know.

Rick

[Hopalong]

It's obvious you have never had an apprentice, or students.

The amount of blood spilled is not about teaching skills, it's about inexperience and the use of sharp tools.

I taught at Shata College, Redding, Ca, for two years..

And Cal Poly Extended Ed, SLO for 10.

My reputation and references speak for themselves.

[Rick Burten]

It's obvious you have never had an apprentice, or students.
What is obvious is that your teaching methods, if not your skills and credentials are rather in doubt.

The amount of blood spilled is not about teaching skills, it's about inexperience and the use of sharp tools.
Only if the students are incorrectly preped, taught, and overseen.
I taught at Shata College, Redding, Ca, for two years..
And Cal Poly Extended Ed, SLO for 10.
My condolences to your students.
My reputation and references speak for themselves.
Indeed they do.

Rick

[Forgewizard]

EE,

I doubt if there are any farriers out there that have NOT caused a hoof to leak now and then. I just didit the other day on a mini. Always seems to happen on the last swipe with that new rasp.:rolleyes:

Like Tom Bloomer mentioned, sounds like this owner wasn't exactly adept at their horse management in the first place.

The wayI handle these "oops" moments is this:

Tell the owner, "Oh no, I have rasped a bit close, there is a spot of blood here."
I'll put the hoof down to see if the pressure will stop the bleeding. I make it a point to work on concrete or at least a plyboard, only rarely do I work on dirt or in grass anymore, and when I do, I make it a point to NOT be as aggressive with my trimming. If you are on dirt unless you have a helper that can grab a diaper before you set the hoof down, well you are S.O.L. - just set the hoof down in the dirt and get the needed supplies.

If the hoof is still bleeding then indeed you were over exuberant with your knife. Any of the afore mentioned tricks will work, including Ron's cobweb first aid! The cob webs give the seeping blood something to coagulate within.

I've only had to cauterize two "oops". *knocks on wooden desk*

Wrap the hoof with a diaper and vetwrap and advise the owners to get the vet out for a tetanus booster. Advise about keeping thehorse free of mud, manure and puddles. Offer to come back to change the wrap if they aren't comfortable doing it. This is your mistake you are fixing, your costs are now going towards "educational expenses".

I have not offered to pay a vet bill and won't because once I leave that property, it is up to the horseowner what gets done, or not, to tend the wound.

I often explain to folks that while we farriers are taught general landmarks in the hoof to trim too, each hoof is unique and sometimes those landmarks are misleading. Please let me know the next time I visit that the hoof got trimmed too close and I'll be certain not to do it again.

If the horse was a brat while you were trimming and the blood is a result of that, I will still charge the client because we can't do our best if the horse is a brat.

Sometimes I have to tell a client, "That's my blood NOT your horse's!"

Florida too has had to undergo letigious changes to their animal husbandry laws where farriers are in the spotlight. We did manage to get them seperated from being under the guise of veterinary medicine!

A diaper, some peroxide and vet wrap is considered first aid - NOT veterinary treatment. Anything more that involves live tissue is considered veterinary practice.

Regards,
Kim

[Thomas_Ride&Drive]

:confused: :eek: It's obvious you have never had an apprentice, or students..
Well I have both as an Engineer and as the owner of an Equestrian business. And both with high risk potential. I've never read anything so **** from someone who is a "supposed" trainer or apprentices!

Is why I say in my profile that this business is a joke. I'd love to know how you instill enthusiasm and motivate your trainees to do a good job with attitudes like that!

The amount of blood spilled is not about teaching skills, it's about inexperience and the use of sharp tools.
.
A trainee should be under proper supervision at all times and that means that the COMPETENT trainer is closely scrutinising and guiding his/her work to ensure that skills are developed using the tools and that then when working with an actual live horse the owner isn't going to sue your *** off.

Because trust me if a farrier came to my yard with the attitutude that such was common place and no big issue they wouldn't be here for many seconds. And if you brought an apprentice to my yard who wasn't competent and was inept with the use of sharp tools and to such an extent that you made my horses bleed and put them (and me!) out of work etc you'd be in court for negligence pdq!

When blood comes out of the bottom of a horse's foot, it's not a big deal..it just isn't. It's like a bad haircut. You will never in a month of Sundays persuade me, any other horse trainer, a vet, or a court of law that drawing blood is the same as cutting hair!

[Auventera]

When students trim feet...blood flows from the bottom of the feet...and from themselves

I guess you'd have a vet standing by for "emergencies", what is it exactly you'd have him do?

When blood comes out of the bottom of a horse's foot, it's not a big deal..it just isn't. It's like a bad haircut.



Ooooooooh OUCH.

I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

I am a student myself and I have ""NEVER"" not one time drawn a single drop of blood on a horse's foot.

And drawing blood is NOT the same as a bad haircut. A bad haircut involves dead material which have neither nerves nor circulation, and is not responsible for supporting 1,000 + pounds on top of it. Drawing blood on a horse's foot is a WOUND. It often causes pain and soreness at best or outright lameness at worst.

Just a few weeks ago, my good friend's mare was lame and out of work for 2 weeks or better due to a farrier knifing out a big gouge in the sole, directly under the tip of the coffin bone. :mad: He is uneducated, and sloppy. This was NOT the first time he did it. And I'm sure it will not be the last. When the owner confronted him he shrugged it off as "the horse has thin soles." No, the horse does not have thin soles. She's barefoot and we trailride over rough terrain with barely ever a head bob. It was a ******, sloppy mistake.

So how about you go try to tell that horse that it was "just a bad haircut." She hobbled around for 2 weeks. It hurt. It was a bleeding wound. And there was absolutely no reason for it to have happened.

[Red Amor]

I am a student myself and I have ""NEVER"" not one time drawn a single drop of blood on a horse's foot

Dont be as tuff on yourself as you where on the other guy when you do
and you will my friend , you'll be startled , it will almost take your breath away , you'll be anoyed embarrised, dissapointed , humbled , and then you'll have to tell the owner and you'll have to eat some crow
you'll rouse at yourself and say how on earth did I do that , and tell yourself you'll NEVER do that again

BUT YOU WILL

and there is a good chance the older guys who have been there wont do or say much to add to your grief

NEVER

never say never

[horseshoer123]

Red I only wish I could have responded the way you did. By far the best post I've read so far, I agree with you 100%. Thank you for that posting.

Phil

[Auventera]

I too agree, great post Red!

I only want to point out that it sometimes seems the "going opinion" is that it's acceptable to just cut on the foot while you're learning, and if you draw blood, then "oops. accidents happen." I do understand it could happen, and when it does, I'll feel horrible. But I know on another forum there is a woman who thinks it is normal and acceptable to draw blood during trims, and especially if you're "just learning." I was only trying to express that I feel beginners should be 10 times as careful as an experienced farrier or trimmer.

Edited to add:
Shoot, I'm sorry. I'm not a farrier and therefore aren't supposed to post in this section. :o Sorry Baron for the mishap!

[Red Amor]

Darlin

Im not trying to spruk great words o wisdom, Im just telling how I felt and how my peires said they felt when they were getting around like crowing puffed up bantan roosters thinking they were as flash as a rat with a gold tooth

Its right that the youngens will get caught more than the older guys
but make NO mistake we get caught now n then
do enough and you will , but the more you do the less you'll get caught
sound's Irish

Im not baggin young folks probabley the word I should be useing is novis
young, middle aged or older if your just startin out your bound to make the odd mistake and it WILL leave a very bad taste in your mouth and a sick feeling in ya gut

I cant help wonder why folks , owners rush to the bright young stars and fall for all their speal ofen forsakeing their dear old mate , Farrier whos been long and loyal n true to their needs

In my case there is a few of these good folk comming back , not happy with what they found ealsewhere , sadly some are a lill embarrised to , and will try another

I have been guilty of ***** canning others work , but once it happened to me I soon realised its ordinary behavour and unless its very blantly bad work and caused trouble I bite my tounge I just say Id try another idear

there is a lot of very cleaver folks new shoers and trimmers out there
would talk me under the mat about all the tecnicals of the hoof n make me look ****
but some of them Ive seen on the forums and in face just arnt getting it right and putting to ground the sensible product that the older guys do
cant put and old head on a new dog is a saying that comes to mind
Many these folk Ive no doubt will get it right in the end if they stick at it long enough , many being young have time on their side
For me its running out and but the time I might be able to consider myself a reasomable Farrier worthy to teach another I'll be to buggered to do it

My very dear ol mate who started me in this game always said [horses and horse people are great levelers of men ] this Ive found to be very true
you seem to me to be very cleaver ,sharp o wit and I feel you'll always do well

one of the best tools /gifts I wish I could have taken , when it was offered was the ability to lissen to take and act on the good n well ment advise when I first heard it yeah [
and the other [humility ]
I wish you well

[jack-mac]

The way i see it the problem is the protocols of some schools in the states six to ten week courses & then off you go with your diploma & your bag of tools & if your lucky you stumble across an experienced farrier to take you on & train you further if not well you just have to wing it in my mind that leaves the door wide open for incompedance & the diploma not worth the paper its written on the enthusiastic new comers must feel pretty dame disillusioned i know i would ?

[hcfarrier246]

Didn't think you had heard of any...neither have I , or from anyone I know...I think you drank the Kool Aid

You remind me of Chicken Little running around yelling the "the sky is falling" do you carry around a lightning rod, just in case you might get struck?

When students trim feet...blood flows from the bottom of the feet...and from themselves

I guess you'd have a vet standing by for "emergencies", what is it exactly you'd have him do?

When blood comes out of the bottom of a horse's foot, it's not a big deal..it just isn't. It's like a bad haircut.

And the fact that we have here a CJF, RJF, AYZ saying it is...

Is why I say in my profile that this business is a joke.

Ahh yes. I remember the days when I would come home looking like a piece of fresh cut roast beef. Oh wait that was today. Well anyway. Hopalong, injuring your clients horse is a bid deal regardless of your experience. I have worked in veterinary medicine for 6 years and have been shoeing for 3 years and counting. I make it my absolute point not to hurt the horse. Primum non nocere. First do no harm.

Yes we do all make mistakes. There is no farrier on here that will deny that. That is the harsh fact of learning. Unfortunately we do not have a large buffer to protect us from these mistakes.

If you make a mistake that causes your clients horse to go lame. That is a very very big deal. If you are new, the effects a quadrupled.

I don't know where I am really going with this rant. But I just had call you on the garbage you are filling your students head with. :mad:

Tom

[calshoer]

The way i see it the problem is the protocols of some schools in the states six to ten week courses & then off you go with your diploma & your bag of tools & if your lucky you stumble across an experienced farrier to take you on & train you further if not well you just have to wing it in my mind that leaves the door wide open for incompedance & the diploma not worth the paper its written on the enthusiastic new comers must feel pretty dame disillusioned i know i would ?You are right jac, it IS a big problem. I took over the little part time college course here just last year. It is 15 weeks but has only one "hands on" day a week, so it the equivalent of about a three week intruductory full time course. For the last 25 or 30 years,the college has been selling the course as a "learn to be a professional" sort of thing. Which falsly giving the students the impression that they will be able to trot right out and be a professional ,when they really have very limited skills. In reality it is good course for someone wanting to do their own horses with simple shoeing, but only an introduction to thinking about being a professional .
To try to overcome the misconceptions about the course, I personally tell the students in the first class day that they can not expect to develop professional level skills in such a limited time, and advise them to not plan on going right out and selling themselves as professionals.
BUT some of them do that anyway...and it is really frustrating for me because I have no way to stop them.

I have submitted re-writes of the course catalogue description to the dean of the school to be more honest about what the course can really offer. But there is so much "red tape" at the school that they have not changed it yet. .... :mad:
So the best I can do is to continue to tell the students to not consider themselves professionals right out of the class, and hope most take it seriously.
Patty

[jack-mac]

We have had a few Tafe colleges here in oz, try to start up short term, do it your-self courses. After a few phone calls i nipped that in the bud! They were stand off-ish at first till it was pointed out under the cruelty act that there courses may be implicated in any litigation that may take place should one of there attendees breach the act. They then changed it to basic maintenance, hoof pick, hygiene, when to call the farrier or vet. Boy did they hate my guts & still do but it was the right thing to do some of them think of it in the same light as one would a pottery class a couple weeks & there's nothing to it :rolleyes:

[Rick Burten]

The way i see it the problem is the protocols of some schools in the states six to ten week courses & then off you go with your diploma & your bag of tools & if your lucky you stumble across an experienced farrier to take you on & train you further if not well you just have to wing it in my mind that leaves the door wide open for incompedance & the diploma not worth the paper its written on the enthusiastic new comers must feel pretty dame disillusioned i know i would ?
Heavens to Mergatroid! Stop the Presses! Call Guiness Book of Records! Jack-Mac and I are not only in the same library, but on the same floor, in the same book and on the same page! :eek: Who Knew? :)

Rick

[Red Amor]

Thanks for the earlier credit JackO
our Vic seems a good kid and Im sure she'll do well

and my bloody oath Im glad you stopped that lot of nonsence
could you just imagine the strife that would have caused TAF two week or month corses
There is a bit more to it than that yeah

and there is enough wouldbies around swipeing work through bullashiz as it is

[jack-mac]

"What the" thank God we aggree on some thing Rick :)

[jack-mac]

Thanks for the earlier credit JackO
our Vic seems a good kid and Im sure she'll do well

and my bloody oath Im glad you stopped that lot of nonsence
could you just imagine the strife that would have caused TAF two week or month corses
There is a bit more to it than that yeah

and there is enough wouldbies around swipeing work through bullashiz as it isThere are proper courses they run at Northern TAFE its for the farrier industry & it has a high standard it is compulsory for apprentices to attend & there masters have to be trade accredited its a step in the right direction but it wont stop the back yard butchers & DIY's running around unforchanetly :)

[Red Amor]

ORR yeah !!? wheres this at mate
Ive not heard of that , not that Im an orthority of any kind
can old ****z like me attend
Oh and Im not a quallifide Farrier , just a bloke been in the industry the last 12 years and havent learned much sad to say , but always willing

[jack-mac]

ORR yeah !!? wheres this at mate
Ive not heard of that , not that Im an orthority of any kind
can old ****z like me attend
Oh and I'm not a qualified Farrier , just a bloke been in the industry the last 12 years and haven't learned much sad to say , but always willingRed its in Epping Victoria any farrier that is self tort or did his time prier to trade accreditation my apply do the moguls & sit the test you have to be trade accredited to hold a VRC ticket in Victoria to plate gallopers the head of the farrier department is Collin smith i don't know what is available in tasey
its not perfect but its a step in the right direction insuring a level of competency & standards are meet :)

[Ron Oldenbeuving]

First, we have all drawn blood, because, unfortunately, not all hooves are identical, and, we're human, and we make mistakes. It ripped my guts out on the occassions I've done it, and, I hope, I'll never lose that feeling when it happens in the future, cos, as a general rule, I love each and every horse I work on. I didnt say IF it happens in the future, cos, like I said, I'm human, I make mistakes.

When it happens, I grab my trim bag (its made from an old truck inner tube) and put the hoof down on it (a lot of my trimming is not done on cement), turn to the owner and tell them the story. Rule number 1, tell it like it is! Give it a few minutes while you chat with the owner. If it stops bleeding, good. If it doesn't get off to the car for the iodine and bandages, etc. Clean and bandage. This is first aid, not veterinary work. At this point, chat with the owner about the horse's tetanus status, and mention that it would probably be best to get a vet in to have a look at it. Mention that if the horse needs shoeing, you'll eat the cost. You shouldnt need to shoe all 4 feet anyway, just 2.

Secondly, in South Australia, the TAFE accreditation is normally 3 years, 1 weekend a month. They highly recommend that you start riding with an accredited farrier, otherwise, it could take you a lot longer. Accreditation consists of an exam with a vet on the leg and hoof structure, problems and possible ways of correcting them, etc. Them you have to make and hot fit 2 shoes (normally 1 front & 1 rear) as well as fit 2 factory shoes. The main problems with the course are that most of the horses are thoroughbreds, who will stand with their leg in the air for an hour or 2, who all have pretty good feet and tempraments (OH&S legislation). Hence, the reason you should ride with an accredited farrier, you get to see all different types of horse, conformations, sizes and problems.

[Red Amor]

Thanks Jacko, and Ron
we were trying to get someone over to test several of us but its not happened
I guess there just wasnt enough interest