Natural Balance Certification

[Phil Armitage]

How many farriers out there interested in NB Certification? How many of you are asked about Natural Balance from horse owners?

[tbloomer]

How many farriers out there interested in NB Certification? How many of you are asked about Natural Balance from horse owners?
Phil,

Usually the first to market gets the biggest market share. Why don't you be the first kid on your block to get the NB certification? You could be the first in your state!

[Dances with Hooves]

I am pursuing NB certification more to push my own skills than for marketing purposes.

I have had only 2 customers contact EDSS looking for a NB farrier and get my name. I rarely have customers raise the issue balance with me. But I often educate owners about balance.

Like AFA certification this is not likely to be a marketing tool but something pursued for its own merit.

[THamilton]

I am interested in the cetification program. I am traveling to Miles City, Montana (13 hours) for part of that. I have had a lot of clients ask about it. As a matter of fact, one of them is paying my way to get there. (After making sound her three horses and her other farrier turning down her offer). It is one style that I use to handle lameness issues. Because of this I need to be knowledgable myelf. This allows me to better educate clients and potential clients.

I have been sought after by 2 persons that have gotten my name somehow. I believe that owners are looking for a way to maintain their horses in a manner that is fitting for them. It goes to what was said earlier, something about PR and getting the worm - Sorry Tom.

Natural Balance is getting the word out by positive means. Therefore owners of horses are asking about it.

Tony

[tbloomer]

I am interested in the cetification program. I am traveling to Miles City, Montana (13 hours) for part of that. I have had a lot of clients ask about it.
AaHAAA! Responding to market demand is the mark of an astute business man.

[tbloomer]

Like AFA certification this is not likely to be a marketing tool but something pursued for its own merit.
Until the AFA gets around to marketing their certification, it has NO merit in the market. They have been leapfrogged by the marketing on the NB web site alone. It's a case of being first to market and then failing to promote the product. Makes for a good business case study. Somebody could get an MBA using this example for a thesis.

[horseshoer123]

My practice is 100% natural balance, if a client wants a traditional shoeing job, then they need to call someone else. I got certified in August and since getting it and having my name on the website as a certified NB farrier, I've gotten 2 or 3 new calls. Phil

[Gary Hill]

Phil, the NB method is great but not every horse needs it, some do have good well balanced feet? Do you turn these type away or shoe everything NB? Patty Stiller says she doesn't shoe all horses NB??? Just Wondering? Gary

[THamilton]

Gary H.,

It is not a matter of using all NB shoes on a horse. Rim and Plains have their place too. When shoeing a horse that is not going to have NB shoes on, you still follow the principles taught you. By doing this you are helping to maintain the hoof balance.

I have been a NB shoer for 13 years. (No BS here, the person I learned from is a great friend of Gene's and tested the shoes during development for him.) I follow the NB protocol on every hoof I touch, whether I trim or shoe. This ensures everything maintains itself and I do not start to get a stretched hoof capsule.

I am following the market as Tom says, but I am also doing it for personal gain as I am a learner. I have to educate owners on what I am doing. The failure of many client/farrier relationships. To do so entails myself in certification.

Good day,
Tony

[Gary_Miller]

When shoeing a horse that is not going to have NB shoes on, you still follow the principles taught you. By doing this you are helping to maintain the hoof balance.

I follow the NB protocol on every hoof I touch, whether I trim or shoe. This ensures everything maintains itself and I do not start to get a stretched hoof capsule.

In other words, All you do is give the horse a proper balanced trim.

Why not call it what it is?


Gary

[THamilton]

A person could do that, but what happens is a lot of farriers do not follow the same protocol or set of ... "rules for lack of a better term" each time they shoe/trim a horse. While they may think the foot is balanced, what physical landmarks on the foot tell them that? Overtime the foot could appear balancd, but in reality it could be out of portion anterior and posterier or M/L or a combination.

I am sure you have run into these feet before. Waht aabout the times you have gone back to a foot that you have done for awhile and not seen for whatever reason and you think, " wow what was I thinkning?"

Good day,
Tony

[Jaye Perry]

THamiltonian-A person could do that, but what happens is a lot of farriers do not follow the same protocol or set of ... "rules for lack of a better term" each time they shoe/trim a horse.There are rules to shoeing and trimming a horse. There are exceptions to those rules and exceptions to those exceptions.





While they may think the foot is balanced, what physical landmarks on the foot tell them that? Overtime the foot could appear balancd, but in reality it could be out of portion anterior and posterier or M/L or a combination.The horse stays releativley sound, that is how.


I follow the NB protocol on every hoof I touch, whether I trim or shoe. This ensures everything maintains itself and I do not start to get a stretched hoof capsule.No, to the anterior ya don't, posteriorly you do. If one uses "one" protocol for "each and every" horse, one has no clue about a horse and it's own, individual movement.




I am sure you have run into these feet before. Waht aabout the times you have gone back to a foot that you have done for awhile and not seen for whatever reason and you think, " wow what was I thinkning?"Horses "are ever changing organisms".

[calshoer]

Patty Stiller says she doesn't shoe all horses NB??? Just Wondering? GaryGary, I shoe all horses using NB as the basis for the trim, breakover and ML balance.
I may not use NB SHOES on every one, though the vast percenatage do get the NB shoes because the fit the protocol so well.
If I run a cross a foot that is nicely balanced, with the toe and breakover where it belongs all on its own (usually a previously bare, well worn foot) ,I may use a St croix eventer. However most hooves previously shod with 'non NB' protocols don't fit the NB parameters on their own, until they have been in it a couple shoeings and change shape.
Patty

[calshoer]

In other words, All you do is give the horse a proper balanced trim.

Why not call it what it is? It depends on ones personal definition of "balance" . NB protocols for balance are diferent for example from Butlers definition of balance. So giving it a name helps define which definition pf "balance" is being used.
Patty

[calshoer]

The horse stays releativley sound, that is how. How about the goal being REALLY sound instead?
If I manage to improve on "relatively" sound, I consider my shoeing a success. :D No, to the anterior ya don't, posteriorly you do. If one uses "one" protocol for "each and every" horse, one has no clue about a horse and it's own, individual movement. There are certain anatomical rules that have been found to hold true for nearly every foot. In NB that is the trim base that build thye rest of the shoeing. Then from that base the shoeing applicances can be chosen and adjusted to the horses needs. But the trim rules have held consistantly true when the feet are checked radiographially. Have a wonky foundation , and the whole building is going to be wonky. As long as the foundation is consistantly true, you can build anything you need to on top of it.
Patty

[Corey M innick]

How about the goal being REALLY sound instead?
Patty

Everything is relative.

e.g. A horse that is sound for a Grand Prix Dressage test isn't sound for a 100 mi endurance race, and a horse that is sound for a 100 mi isn't sound for a grand prix dressage test.

[Donald Ruff]

Corey that would eb a training issue not a soundness issue.
Don

[danverschild]

Corey that would eb a training issue not a soundness issue.
Don

Nah... I think it's a semantic issue. Soundness is relative or relational to purpose / usage. I don't have my old copy of Lameness in Horses at hand, but O.R. Adams starts it off with a nice definition of soundness, where he talks about soundness being related to what you're asking of the animal.

~~Danvers (who's feeling broodmare sound this evening / more Bushmill's please!)

[Donald Ruff]

Danvers,
I was looking at it from a different view.
Totally understand that the level of performance asked and the way the horse moves through that desired performance level at which ever gait, dictates it soundness to that particular performance event.
Don

[tbloomer]

Nah... I think it's a semantic issue. Soundness is relative or relational to purpose / usage. I don't have my old copy of Lameness in Horses at hand, but O.R. Adams starts it off with a nice definition of soundness, where he talks about soundness being related to what you're asking of the animal.

~~Danvers (who's feeling broodmare sound this evening / more Bushmill's please!)

Somebody wrote a country song about that. "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was."

[Jaye Perry]

calshoer-How about the goal being REALLY sound instead?
If I manage to improve on "relatively" sound. No horse is "Really" sound. One can find "holes" in all horses.




I consider my shoeing a success. :D There are certain anatomical rules that have been found to hold true for nearly every foot.
Glad you said "Nearly every foot", a set of rules is releative to each horse's conformational aspects; legs,body conformation and feet.



In NB that is the trim base that build thye rest of the shoeing. Then from that base the shoeing applicances can be chosen and adjusted to the horses needs.
Not only in "NB" but other methodologies of trimming is basic or a basis.




But the trim rules have held consistantly true when the feet are checked radiographially.
Other techinques do the same. I'll take one from the NBS playbook, "If the trimming methodologies are done properly":D




Have a wonky foundation , and the whole building is going to be wonky. As long as the foundation is consistantly true, you can build anything you need to on top of it.
In a lot of cases, "Rome" wasn't built in a Day.

[tbloomer]

If you have ever heard Mitch Taylor,CJF give a presentation on anatomy, he usually starts off with these words: "The horses foot is dynamic and elastic. It is constantly remodeling according to weight bearing."

I think this fits well with Jaye's Horses "are ever changing organisms". Except that Jaye goes beyond the foot to include the entire horse.

My philosophy is along the lines of e=mC2 - "Everything is relative."

[Jaye Perry]

tbloomer-If you have ever heard Mitch Taylor,CJF give a presentation on anatomy, he usually starts off with these words: "The horses foot is dynamic and elastic. It is constantly remodeling according to weight bearing."

I think this fits well with Jaye's Horses "are ever changing organisms". Except that Jaye goes beyond the foot to include the entire horse.

if ya don't include the "Entire horse" one is just applying foot protection

[tbloomer]

if ya don't include the "Entire horse" one is just applying foot protection
Do you account for a horse's personality, heart, work ethic, and intelligence in your shoeing decisions? It is these unmeasureable things that I want to learn to account for along with the physically measureable and thus more predictable attributes. Jaye, I've got to get with you so some of that Zen/Mojo stuff rubs off on me. :)

[Jaye Perry]

Do you account for a horse's personality, heart, work ethic, and intelligence in your shoeing decisions? It is these unmeasureable things that I want to learn to account for along with the physically measureable and thus more predictable attributes. Jaye, I've got to get with you so some of that Zen/Mojo stuff rubs off on me. :)
It's not Zen, Mojo, Budda or Papal indenties.

It was Holmes FWCF (paraphrased because Maki has my copy):
" It should be remembered by the farrier that no parts of the horse are 'Unnecessary'. Each part has it's own particular function. If one part ceases to function, extra work is thrown upon it's remaining parts. Thus, for all parts to be equal every part has to be working in harmony with it's neighbor".circa 1890

"For one to go into the future, one must understand the past grasshopper:D ." Kung Fu, circa 1973

[tbloomer]

It's not Zen, Mojo, Budda or Papal indenties.

It was Holmes FWCF (paraphrased because Maki has my copy):
" It should be remembered by the farrier that no parts of the horse are 'Unnecessary'. Each part has it's own particular function. If one part ceases to function, extra work is thrown upon it's remaining parts. Thus, for all parts to be equal every part has to be working in harmony with it's neighbor".circa 1890

"For one to go into the future, one must understand the past grasshopper:D ." Kung Fu, circa 1973
Ok, so you can't shoe geldings to perform like stallions. I get that. :p

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Bro. Jaye Perry in italics, deletia

It's not Zen, Mojo, Budda or Papal indenties.

It was Holmes FWCF (paraphrased because Maki has my copy):
" It should be remembered by the farrier that no parts of the horse are 'Unnecessary'. Each part has it's own particular function. If one part ceases to function, extra work is thrown upon it's remaining parts. Thus, for all parts to be equal every part has to be working in harmony with it's neighbor".circa 1890

As I see it, no matter what they're doing, if they've been doing it long enough to get really good at it, they've all got some pieces missing.:)

[horseshoer123]

I trim and shoe every horse using NB principle, period. I use a variety of shoes. In my opinion using NB shoes does not make you a NB farrier, using the principles does. Phil

[calshoer]

Nah... I think it's a semantic issue. Soundness is relative or relational to purpose / usage. I don't have my old copy of Lameness in Horses at hand, but O.R. Adams starts it off with a nice definition of soundness, where he talks about soundness being related to what you're asking of the animal.That's an excuse by farriers and vets to avoid dealing enough with subtle man made unsoundnesses that WE and the riders usually create. Its MY definition of soundness (and there are plenty of truly sound horses in the world) .....If the horse can move to the maximum of his genetic conformational ability, totally pain free, he is sound.
If he can not move according to his conformational potential due to discomfort (subtle or not) he is not sound. Pretty simple.
Yes there are a lot of unsound horses in the world ,(most from man made issues) but there care also plenty of sound ones. And I've seen too many supposedly 'sound' horses become even better with shoeing or trimming changes. Horses already doing their job well, but then begin to move even better, improve performance, be more willing to do the job....its all in how high a bar you set for the definition.
Patty