Vertical cracks from toe to coronary.

[iluvarabs]

It appears this subject has been talked about a few times but I have not read anything that has helped me...so here I am.

A year ago I bought and overweight 10 YO polish Arabian gelding with existing toe to coronary vertical "hairline" cracks in both front feet. I was told that the horse had these cracks for most of his 10 years but had never taken a lame step or suffered any laminitis. When he came to my home it had been 12 weeks since his last shoe re-set, he was quite flared and very flat. My farrier and veterinarian were called and promptly removed the shoes. About a week later I noticed that he had an abcess that popped at the top of the crack at the coronary band. I took him to Cornell University where glue on shoes were applied to prevent the cracks from getting deeper and to give him the chance to grow some good hoof. In May of this year, he abcessed again in that hoof in the same place. Both times I never had any obvious indications of the abcess. So here we are a year later and the opposite foot has abcessed in the same manner. This is the better of the two hooves.

My farrier is highly recommended by area vets for problem hooves and I have used him for many years, but I'm beginning to doubt that he is doing all that he can for this horse. This horse grows a tremendous amount of hoof in 4 weeks time. Up until the last two trims we were on a 6 week trim and I asked the farrier to go with 5 weeks which has been better. I'm thinking of moving it to 4 weeks next time. His RF flares quite a bit after 4 weeks.

I need some advice. I can get pics and answer any other questions you need to know the answers to help form your opinions. I have been told that he may always have these cracks...but I want to make sure I am doing everything I can to help him grow the best possible hoof he can. He is not shod, no extra supplementation and hoof horn is nice and pliable.

[THamilton]

Pictures garner more responses on this forum.

Your horse will always have those cracks until the root of the problem is addressed. Each one of us will have suspicions, but pictures to help confirm these are needed. The protocol will be the same but different from farrier to farrier too.

Tony

[cynthia-jay]

The above poster is correct in addressing your issues

Untill you determine the underlying cause, you cannot remidy the situation

My thoughts are where are the hinds on this horse, and the condition as well how they affect the fronts

Posting photos as previously suggested will get you alot more responses

My opinion is this horse has a balance problem which may or may not be linked to conformation, or problems elsewhere,

cracks are usually related to balance or enviromental conditions, wet to dry conditions, including to long in between shoeing/trimming schedules

good luck to you

as always

Jay

[iluvarabs]

Okay. I will post some pics tonight. Thank you.

[iluvarabs]

I really need your guys help with this. I'm getting conflicting information from other area farriers since taking these pictures today and showing them around.

This horse is due for his 5 week trim on October 3. I wish I had pics from a year ago, because he was a lot worse which is why I assumed he was getting better. I had a farrier tell me tonight that he has a terrible trim job, flaring, mechanical founder and I shouldn't use any farrier that doesn't use a hoof stand. This is disheartening to hear because I've been told I have the best farrier in the area. He comes highly recommended for treating situations like this including founder and laminitis issues.

Please follow the link to my photobucket for many pictures of his feet.

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c318/iluvarabs/Hoof%20Conformation%20September%202006/

[Rick Burten]

I had a farrier tell me tonight that I shouldn't use any farrier that doesn't use a hoof stand.
Apparently this stalwart of the farrier profession believes that a hoof stand somehow imbues its user with mystical abilities to correctly and accurately trim horse's feet. As soon as this person comes down off his magic mushroom ride, perhaps he will become aware of reality again.

[iluvarabs]

Apparently this stalwart of the farrier profession believes that a hoof stand somehow imbues its user with mystical abilities to correctly and accurately trim horse's feet. As soon as this person comes down off his magic mushroom ride, perhaps he will become aware of reality again.
Thanks for making me laugh. Did you get to look at my pics? What do you think?

BTW...the farrier who likes hoof stands is ironically in Illinois near the Wisconsin/Illinois border. LOL!!

[THamilton]

It appears to me that your horses feet are out of balance. It appears from the pictures that one heel is longer than the other. This added with the fact that the toes are also long place tremendous amounts of stress on the already weakened feet-especially the fronts.

The cracks are due to the stress factors but are made worse by fungus. I would dremel them out an rinse 2X's /day with Merthiolate or a mixture of bleach water (30% bleach). I would do this for a week keeping the horse ina clean dry environment. Then I would use an acrylic of choice and rebuild those areas giving strength to the foot. I might also shoe the foot possibly adding side clips for added strenght to the foot while the cracks grow out.

Later,
Tony

[iluvarabs]

Thank you Tony.

How do I bring something like this up to my farrier? I'm sorry if I sound ignorant BUT I am where this is concerned. Quite frankly the farrier I have now is considered the best in my area. I usually think the trims look real nice but again unfortunately I have no real hoof knowledge. And then yesterday another farrier told me he is mechanically foundered. I'm swimming with worry and feeling like I don't have a lot of options with the limited amount of farriers here.

I have submitted these photos to Michael Wildenstein in Cornell U. He saw this horse 1 year ago when I purchased him. If I have to for a little while I will have to drive him the 3 hours to Cornell to have Michael do what is needed.

The protocol you described is exactly what Michael did a year ago and then put aluminum glue on shoes on his fronts. I'm certain he expected that if my farrier did a decent balanced trim that the horse would improve...now I'm pretty concerned that I really need to find another farrier. I must mention that the horse has gotten better. Unfortunately I don't have pics from 1 year ago to show you. Previous horse owner had him on a 8 - 10 week trim and kept him in shoes all summer. He was a REAL mess when I got him.

Sorry if this is so long and I'm muttering along, but not only am I a horse lover...this particular horse is very special to me and I want him happy and healthy and I want to feel like I'm being proactive with this...no more of let's just watch it...a famous quote of area farriers.

[Rick Burten]

Thanks for making me laugh. Did you get to look at my pics? What do you think?[ /quote]
Tony has said pretty much what I intended to say. The feet are way out of balance, and I think a correct trim will go a long way towards resolving the problems I and others are seeing. Like Tony, I would more than likely dremel those cracks, even if just a bit so that I could clean out the crud that has gotten trapped and create a shallow " U " shaped channel that wouldn't be as prone to that problem. when I do this, I put shoes on the horse and used side clips. If the shoe is correctly located so that the breakover is in the right place and there is proper heel suppport, the problem should resolve quite nicely. I will usually add something like EquiPak to the back part of the foot so that there is additional support for the frog, bars, commissures, etc. Vettec has come out with a new version of Equipak that incorporates Copper sulfate to help combat any thrush that may be present and to prevent any thrush from getting started. This new product should not be confused with their other new product SilPak which is a silicone based product containing CuSO4 but is only designed to be used under a pad. The new Equipak , like the original EquiPak can be introduced onto the foot and will adhere to the hoof without a covering pad.

The flaring at the toe must be addressed(removed) or there will be little to no chance that you can get rid of the crack(s).
[quote]BTW...the farrier who likes hoof stands is ironically in Illinois near the Wisconsin/Illinois border. LOL!!
Wait, I'm confused(What??? Who knew??? :) ). Did the "if you don't use a hoof stand you ain't sh-*-t" farrier not see the horse personally? If not, on what was he basing his comments about the foot stand? (You said he lives in N. Ill but that you are three hours from Cornell, so the geographic logistics dont't add up).

Anyway, While the problems look, on the surface to be potentially significant, I think you'll find that they can be readily remediated if properly handled.

[THamilton]

Please apply the brakes alittle :eek:

This does not mean that you need to seek another farrier. caually ask question about what can be done about the cracks. Mention that you have been doing research and "blank" is what you have learned. Could that work on "fluffies feet"? IF the farrier seems defensive then you might consider changing.

This might be somehting new to him/her and they might like to learn too. IF you decide to haul him to Cornell to be worked on, offer to tke your farrier so they might learn more. Often times in these types of situations persons like Mr. Wildenstein likes this because he knows that the horse is going to go back to someone who has seen theprocedure that was performed. That is my opinion.

As for the cracks at onetime being gone... well...

It is a fungus and even a pinhead of fungus left not cleaned out can cause the cracks to reappear. Also if the feet were in poor care when you got the horse, then poor foot maintance was performed. Leading to the cracks reappearing.

Good day,
Tony

[THamilton]

Thanks Rick for adding the use of a pad material. I guess whenyou think out procedures you often miss things you do naturally.

Ihave not seen the Pak with the Copper Sulfate in it where I buy my products. Did it just comeout on the market? I knew that they were coming out with it.

Thanks again,
Tony

[calshoer]

The RF is a fairly siginificant club foot. It may have a deep "crenna" or natural groove that runs all the way down the center of the coffin bone itself which will contributre to the permanent crease in the hoofwall and a tendency to crack there.
I would roll the toe of that foot a lot more to relieve stress from the center of the dorsal wall as the horse moves over it, and to prevent any weight bearing from it as well. And bring the heels back to the level of the sole but not any further. I would carve or Dremel out the crack at the bottom , and explore under it to insure there is no whiteline disease. Then if it needs patching do it with medicated patching material.
Or shoe it with breakover set well behind the end of the toe, and leave the deremmelled crack open to treat.
Patty

[iluvarabs]

Wait, I'm confused(What??? Who knew??? :) ). Did the "if you don't use a hoof stand you ain't sh-*-t" farrier not see the horse personally? If not, on what was he basing his comments about the foot stand? (You said he lives in N. Ill but that you are three hours from Cornell, so the geographic logistics dont't add up).


Nope, farrier is a friend if a friend of a friend and it was suggested that I send the pics. The stand comment was based on pics only. AND, I'm not the type to take suggestions as gospel in such situations but I thought it was interesting to note anyway.

Thanks all for the great suggestions and great opinions. I'm looking forward to working with my farrier to get my horse's feet healthy. I'll let you know what happens after the next trim appointment. I have new hope.

[THamilton]

Be aware...

Just a trim is not going to get this horse fixed. Trimming does not get to t he root of the issue.

Tony

[iluvarabs]

Thanks Tony...I'm very aware this is going to require much more than a trim. I think my farrier will be happy to oblige me with what you have suggested but I have another question.

Let's say that we do exactly as you have suggested "in theory"...how do I tell if my farrier has done a proper balanced trim, gotten rid of the flares properly, and shoes him correctly. What am I looking for? Is there any way you can show me what George(horse) should look like? How do I know the farrier has done the right job?

[caballus]

I see imbalances, long toes, long and underslung heels all of which cause issues in hooves. A trim can go a long way and since a poor trim is the cause of many hoof ailments, including cracks and fungus infections, I'd say that with the proper trim and then a good hard look at the diet and environment, this horse could probably get rid of the chronic cracks and accompanying fungal infection within a full hoof growth cycle. This is shod or not, also ... not talking about specifically barefoot horse but the preparatory trim for shoes must also be as exacting as the trim for a barefoot performance horse.

--Gwen

[THamilton]

You said that the process is exactly what Micheal did last time... If you were happy, then return to him and take/drag your farrier along. This would be easiest and most beneficial for everyone.

The followup care would then be up to you and your farrier. Take lots of before and after pictures and possibly video.

Hope this helps. First hand experience is always the best. I would like to ost pictures but am not as adept as I would like to be at that. Possibly a winter down time??? learning expereince.

Tony

[iluvarabs]

Hi all...it's me again. Since my last post my farrier came out and I had a conversation along the lines of the many recommendations here. I tried not to sound like someone who was trying to tell him what to do because I felt that would be disrespectful. Anyway, I mentioned that I just can't seem to keep the cracks clean and that I can never fully remove all of the black crud and that I can't help but feel that this is not helping. What do you recommend?

He then proceeded to carve out a u-shaped channel along the cracks on both feet which revealed that the cracks did not thankfully go through the hoof wall. However, upon doing this it was MUCH easier to notice that when the horse stepped down on the hoof that the wall moved closest to the coronet on both feet. So we both agreed that he should wear shoes at an attempt to control that movement. I also asked him about the flares. He very quickly said that he would be removing them. On the worst foot, he also applied a hoof packing which is supposed to add even more support.

The hooves as far as eye appeal look wonderful to me. I have been watching the cracks closely and do not see any signs of the cracks getting worse.
HOWEVER, these are my own personal observations:

The cracks are deepest near the coronet and a small indent is noticed at the coronet band. The visible crack is approximately 1/4" in length from the base of the coronet down.
When the horse lifts his foot releasing any pressure; I can see the crack at the coronet widen. When he puts weight back on the hoof the crack closes.

I do not have updated pics and I know how helpful they are so I will try to get some posted. In the meantime I would like some hypothesis on this.

If I was to guess at this; I think the hoof cracks originate from the coronet and not the toe. But I want to know possible causes and prognosis? Can we eliminate these cracks?

[THamilton]

If the cracks originate at the coronory band, it appears that the corium has been damaged. The cracks are going to be a permenant issue. Somethigs that you can do are to maintain a year round schedule of trimming/shoeing, removing flares, maintain the length of foot (do not allow the toe to migrate out and cause further stress to the aready weakened wall, and be watchful of fungus that could occur.

Closeup pictures of the foot including the coronet bank would be great!

Tony

[Ron Oldenbeuving]

Thank-you iluvarabs. Not all horse owners are as co-operative and/or interested as you, and it can make a refreshing change. :)

[iluvarabs]

The person I bought this horse from explained that this horse has always had these cracks. She claims that he was born with them. What are your thoughts on this?

I will post pics later tonight of the coronet.

Let's assume that these cracks will always exist. What kinds of things/products can I use to keep it very clean to avoid infection/disease?

Is there any advantage or disadvantage to massaging corona ointment at the coronet once a day? (My thinking is HOPEFUL here, that maybe in time and given the proper requirements that the corium will heal. Wishful thinking, but at this point it can't hurt right?)

Is there NO CHANCE at all that with diligent care that this horse will heal? Is there a good chance that if he has had these cracks his entire life with no serious problems that he will continue to be okay with our diligence? He is 11?

[Ron Oldenbeuving]

As Tony said, if the corium is damaged, which appears likely, then these cracks will be a permanent feature, but, they are certainly manageable. Keeping those feet well trimmed and balanced will go a long way to at least minimizing any future problems. As for the ointment, they may improve things, but I wouldnt hold my breath. Keeping the cracks clean will just be part of your reguler maintenance. Got and old soft toothbrush? HTH