Why Not the BWFA?

[Franky Lundist]

Ricks post in another thread set me to thinking and I have noticed that here on horseshoes.com there seems to be an intense dislike for the BWFA, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me why?

Is it a dislike for the BWFA itself?

Is it a dislike for Ralph Casey?

Is it a dislike for the BWFA members?

Is it just because its a rival farrier group and thats the way rivalries are viewed?

[J.H. shoeing]

Franky

I think it has to do with the testing standards and the image that the organization portrays or perhaps the way that organization portrays itself to the public.

I looked into testing with them and was advised to contact a tester who forwarded me the "requirements" of the test that I was wanting to take. Those requirements were above and beyond what was printed on their web site. So I emailed the tester and ask questions. I recieved no response(weeks) so I emailed the head office with a carbon copy to the tester and several days later was advised by the head office to contact another tester. I did contact him and was advised on how, when, where, and so forth of what I would need to do to test with the organization.

In reality the organization seemed shakey so I decided not to test with them. In 1993 the organization sent me something in the mail and advised me that all I would need to do is send my money, join the organization and I would be "certified". I did not keep the mail out, wish I would have now.

I don't think that any of the organizations out there are without fault. This of course is just my opinion and it is worth what it cost.

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Franky Lundist in gray

Ricks post in another thread set me to thinking and I have noticed that here on horseshoes.com there seems to be an intense dislike for the BWFA, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me why?

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'll be glad to tell you why I think the BWFA is a bad joke.

Is it a dislike for the BWFA itself?

In the 1980's, the BWFA attempted to sell me a "masters" credential, an act that put them in the same category as the non-accredited, sleazebag, "life experience" diploma mills one finds on the nether regions of education. As nearly as I can tell, the organization's sleaze quotient has remained consistent over the years.

Is it a dislike for Ralph Casey?

I've never met the man, but I have a great deal of respect for anyone who attempts to con an entire industry into thinking BWFA's reaison d'etre is to advance the cause of farriery. It's the same kind of respect I have for someone who pees on my leg and tries to convince me my pants aren't getting wet.

Is it a dislike for the BWFA members?

Heavens no! I have quite few friends and acquaintances who are BWFA members. Their choosing to associate with the BWFA is their business and I'd never comment on that association unless they attempted to convince me the BWFA is good for farriery. For the same reason, I wouldn't comment if I saw a married friend in the company of a working girl unless he attempted to lecture me on the sanctity of marriage and the desirability of monogamy as a lifestyle.

Is it just because its a rival farrier group and thats the way rivalries are viewed?

I don't feel the BWFA has enough credibility to be considered a "rival" farrier group; in reality, it's an oligarchic organization pretending to be democratic that has about as much credibility as a television evangelist who promises salvation on the basis of monetary contribution.

[Bill Adams]

Oh great I have to follow Tom.

Franky,
I take it that you are a member and an atictive and promoting member at that. Repesenting an organization with anomious postings I think speaks volumes about it.
Ralph Casey is a very thinly cloaked charlotin who presents a busines for his profit as if it was a Farriers organization. It may be if fact that, but only as a by product of a con man's opperation. Not to mention Jack Roth's help in getting it going again.
From what I gather, the BWFA was at one time a good outfit, that Casey's grand father helped found or run, but has turned in to a joke.
Their testing was a farce when I pasted with flying colors (CJF) after three months of school. I know of a dog that was certified with the BWFA's "Certificates for Sale" (dose that phrase ring a bell? title of a recent thread on this site started by Franky) program.
I am sure that there fine men and women with great skills in the organization, and that it may be a viable outfit someday but as for the BWFA at this time (I get to use my favorate line again), Franky, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Bill

[Gary Hill]

I have always wondered? Do you get a little toolbox with wheels and a **** blondle up your b u t t if you join their little club?

[BS-Horseshoeing]

Hey Franky, good to see you back and stirring up the pot. Keeps it entertaining at the very least. As Bill mentioned in his post, I was told after completeing 12 weeks of school I could get certified as a journeyman by the BWFA by passing the schools written final teast and shoeing a horse, all four with kegs, in less than an hour and if it didn't limp away I would pass and be certified. Now that is why not the BWFA, h ell, I didn't deserve it and sure wasn't that good at the time, but for a fee and being careful I could be certified. I don't think so. The AFA's system may need some work, but at least it makes a person do some work to prepare and pass the test. It makes you prove you can do the work they require, not just buy your way in. JMO

[calshoer]

After studying their website , watching the TV show and talking to several graduates from their program(s), heres my opinion on the BWFA.
The BWFA certification test requirements are a joke.
Their shoeing protocols are archaic and nothin more than cowboy 'slap some iron on the foot'.
And their so called hoof research is an even bigger joke.
Thats why they're a laughing stock. Oh and the fact that anyone who pays the fee can be a member, farrier or not, even your dog.
Patty

[Dianne Lemmon]

Patty,

I have oft wondered when the BWFA is going to offer a "Sister-hood of working Farriers" certification. Would there be swimsuit competition requirement for certification?

Franky, When has the BWFA offered its female members the same educational opportunities and programs like the AFA has. After all it was the AFA that took a mighty big chance 19 years ago and sent me to the UK on its Cultural (Appprentice) Exchange program.

Like Patty I find the testing requirements, and the BWFA's stance that "The Vets are wrong" a farce.


Dianne AFA CF +2/3

[Rick Burten]

. Would there be swimsuit competition requirement for certification?
It is my understanding that tattoos will be considered to be proof of competency and one's artistic ability. Not to mention one's pain threshold. :)

[Franky Lundist]

bill you are obviously a bitter old ***** I do not belong to any farrier organization and do not promote any of them I have not mentioned the BWFA as they have not lied cheated tried to control the industry and as far as I know they do not have an accused felon running the show.
I simply asked for othe opinios of others on another group, and with as many people that have posted in here saying things like "well join the AFA and change it from the inside" I am asking why not approach the BWFA the same way?
I am guessing you are an AFA member and you either feel threatened by the BWFA or you are just another typically narrow minded individual that the AFA seems to attract.

To everyone else who has responded I sincerely appreciate all of your input.

[George Geist]

Franky,
This question you have raised is most interesting. Allow me to first put in in its historical context as I think you'll find it quite amusing. After that I'll tell how I first got involved with and then parted company with the BWFA.

Sometime in the 1950's the JHU made one of the most hair brained decisions in their history. They decided to disband all their saddle horse locals. They for some reason wanted to be composed of only race platers.

Because of this, in 1960 a few old union guys from New Jersey formed the Garden State Horseshoers Assn. This group was formed for 2 reasons. 1) To try to minimize undercutting and 2) To watch each others backs.

These are the 2 most important reasons to have any association and sadly are the last things any of them are concerned with today. GSHA is the oldest state association in the country right now. They had testing required for membership and other state groups began to emerge in various places over the years.

In the early '70s, a few guys who for whatever reason could not gain entrance into the union got with Walt Taylor and formed the AFA. In those early years all that was necessary for membership was a signature from a sponsoring member. **** as this may have been at least it was better than nothing which is what they require now.

The JHU looked upon this young upstart group as a joke. The 2 organizations have never gotten along and probably never will.

Fast forward to the early 1990s. A group of disgruntled AFA members get with Ralph Casey and form BWFA. Hard as he tries to be a national group the majority of his membership for some reason hails from the south.

In an effort to build a big membership fast Ralph Casey enacted a grandfathering system for his certification system. What nobody here will say is that when the AFA was trying to get their certification program off of the ground they did the SAME THING! Guys from GSHA were grandfathered in to being CFs.

Now, the AFA tends to look down their noses at them same as the JHU did to them. This is what happens with hate. If you dont get past it you will become the very thing that you hate. The AFA has done this.

I too was grandfathered in to being certified by BWFA. (It is important to note that this was temporary it did not go on forever) Major differences here. If you do not renew your membership with them you are de-certified and must either re-test or pay all back dues from all the years you were out to get your certification back.

From what I remember of it their testing was about the same as the AFAs. Difference being that with them the tester had to do the test also. Whatever the tester messed up, you didn't have to get right either. Their written study guides looked like the AFAs and were written by John Blombach also.

When I first joined it looked like a good alternative to the anglophile competition loving AFA. They spoke more about business and so forth as well as spreading some badly needed goodwill among horseshoers.

Is that organization a dictatorship? Yes. Absolutely. That is not necessarily a bad thing in itself as it is an efficient way to do things and internal squabbles are non-existent. Ralph Casey is a charismatic and likeable man thats for sure but I must agree with the other guys that he does for this trade what televangelists do for religion. It's all about him.

I didn't like the de-certifying deal but didnt care because I didn't think much of that anyway. I was against his giving horse owners full membership and voting status. ( not that it mattered anyway because his vote was the only one that counted)

The thing that finally made me walk was his sending out postcards asking for approval for a dues increase so he could build his research lab. It was overwhelmingly voted down. He raised dues anyway. Between that and the de-certifying and sometimes blacklisting he did I walked.

After I was gone he removed a duly elected president and compiled a history of removing or replacing anyone and everyone who disagreees with him about anything.

The organization almost sank several times. He appears to have 9 lives. Most recently being ever the opportunist he capitalized on last years internal AFA problems for his own gain also. Since there appears to be no successor, I believe it safe to say that if he ever retires, dies, or quits, the organization will cease to exist. This is a downside to being all wrapped up in one man.

Ironically enough, he does deliver a good message. There is a lot he says that I like. He encourages guys to get prices up where they belong. Be good businessmen etc. He says we need to be organized and not be fighting amongst ourselves. It is because of him that the AFA altered its course a bit more towards business and away from contests.

I believed him to be right about this stuff. After leaving him I joined AFA and all the state groups I've been in.

So up till now I dont think he has hurt the industry that much but surely has found a way to make a living off of it without actually doing it.

One other thing Franky, by now Im sure you've noticed that these boards are dominated by a small group of people who are for lack of a better word....opinionated. For this reason it should come as no surprise that they can be a bit negative about things. I really dont think there is widespread dislike for BWFA or Ralph Casey out there in the real world.

George

[Dave Purves]

.
One other thing Franky, by now Im sure you've noticed that these boards are dominated by a small group of people who are for lack of a better word....opinionated. For this reason it should come as no surprise that they can be a bit negative about things. I really dont think there is widespread dislike for BWFA or Ralph Casey out there in the real world.

George


Who's "real world" are we talking about here Goerge? MTV has a "Real World", I live in my "real world", and my "real world" is obviously much different that your "real world". We all have our perception of things. From my perspective, most of the farriers I know, don't like the BWFA. Certifications for sale, and the entire thing only exists to line Ralph's pockets. Most farriers I know that remain associated with the BWFA is because they spent thier money in shoeing school to get certified, and it's really all they know. There doesn't exist the politics in the BWFA because Ralph pretty much runs the show un-opposed. (strictly my interpretation, and opinion)
My dad told me along time ago that there are no realities, only perceptions. When the news says there is a storm coming, some people board up thier houses and run, others are thankful that the crops will get some much needed water. Which reality is it?

Dave

[George Geist]

Dave,
The reality that about 90% of horseshoers belong to nothing at all. Between his horse owner members and other non-horseshoers that populate that group I'm not sure if any accurate count of horseshoers can ever really come from them.

I already touched on the selling of certifications and to the best of my knowledge this is no longer going on. If you can find out if it is I'd sure like to hear about it.

Point I made was that AFA did the same thing in their past. Was Ralph Casey a little too liberal about it? Absolutely. He should have at least grandfathered people that were tested by SOMEBODY. The other groups at least did that.

GPF still does do that by grandfathering AFA retreads. Nobody says they sell certifications although it can be easily construed that way.

In fairness though, just how in the world can a new organization start a certification program when nobody is certified? Don't you think it necessary for any of them to do this in order to get started?
George

[Dianne Lemmon]

It is my understanding that tattoos will be considered to be proof of competency and one's artistic ability. Not to mention one's pain threshold. :)

I shoe therefore I (like many others) have a high pain tolerance and threshold. This is what allows me the tattoo collection and my career choice.


Besides the Bikini competition would reveal all!


:)

Dianne

[tbloomer]

Recently I've had several new customers ask me if I was certified. All of them asked because they had seen Ralph Casey on RFDTV promoting certified farriers. When I told them that I was NOT certified by Ralph's BWFA, but by the AFA and The Guild, they said that the guy on the show didn't specify any particular certification, just that it should be one of the national associations.

When I asked these people why they didn't ask if I was certified BEFORE they hired me to work on thier horses they said that the only thing that mattered was that I showed up for the appointment. Guess they figured that if the asked me before booking the appointment, and I wasn't certified, I might be offended and not take them on as clients. :)

Although I'm not impressed with the BWFA's certification program, their nationally aired TV program is putting ALLLLL of the other farrier associations to shame.

[tbloomer]

I shoe therefore I (like many others) have a high pain tolerance and threshold.
Dianne

Beat me, Kick me . . . make me write bad checks! :D

[SlowShoe]

A freind of mine just graduated from a BWFA school as a BWFA CJF. 3 Weeks makes you a journeyman eh? Man I should just send in for one of those certificates so I can have CJF on my card. =]

[Mike Bailey]

I had a cjf card after 20 weeks at ofc.It came with graduation.We took tests at school but they were just basic anatomy ( frog,white line,ect)and even got a diploma that stated I was now reconized as a master farrier?
Never have shown any clients these items never renewed with the bwfa ethier even though they mailed me notices for over a year.
Mike

[Rick Burten]

GPF still does do that by grandfathering AFA retreads. Nobody says they sell certifications although it can be easily construed that way.
So, am I to be considered a retread or a retard?
:confused: :eek: :)

George,

First, thanks for the history lesson. I was not aware of some of the things from the 50's and 60's.

Interestingly enough. when the AFA first came into existance, competitions were not a part of the package. Somewhere along the way, the train has gotten derailed.

It is true that in the beginning, the GPF grandfathered in certain qualified members of both the AFA and the BWFA. It is important to note that rather quickly, the GPF stopped recognizing the BWFA credentials and no longer allowed farriers with those credentials to be grandfathered in. It is also noteworthy I believe that the Guuild still accepts the AFA CJF credential, as well as the WCF(Worshipful Company of FArriers) credential. And that the WCF recognizes the AFA CJF credential. The WCF does not however, accept any credential from the BWFA. Regardless of what one might think about the WCF, it should give one pause for thought as to why the AFA credential is accepted and the BWFA credential is not.

[Rick Burten]

Although I'm not impressed with the BWFA's certification program, their nationally aired TV program is putting ALLLLL of the other farrier associations to shame.
I agree, even if much of what Ralph does on the TV program is a ripe load of bovine effulence.

In fact, personalities and organization structure aside, on paper, the BWFA looks pretty good. The AFA seesm to keep trying to emulate a lot of what the BWFA is doing, but always manages to shoot itself in the foot with each attempt. I suppose that is one argument for running a dictatorship. But make no mistake about it, Ralph runs that organization top to bottom. And while he may loudly decry licensing and registration and farrier school surveys, he basically already does that. He has the aligned schools under his thumb. He has the certification process under his thumb, and everything that gets promoted and advertised does so only with his imperial blessing.

IOW, the fox is guarding the hen house.

[Rick Burten]

A freind of mine just graduated from a BWFA school as a BWFA CJF. 3 Weeks makes you a journeyman eh? Man I should just send in for one of those certificates so I can have CJF on my card. =]
Josh,

The problem is that the horse-owning public doesn't know the difference. Nor I suppose, do they, for the most part, care. The BWFA certification cheapens the whole concept. But where is the counter? The Guild is too small and too weak right now. The AFA is being torn up by internal strife and is not getting the message out. The JHU? Except for George, what have we heard from them lately? The chapters of the AFA? In reality, the chapters could do a lot of good. They could be out there promoting the AFA to the public. But they don't. Why? in part, I think its because most members are not certified. It would be hard to and downright ****** for a non-certified AFA chapter member to promote using AFA certified farriers. Those of us who are members of the Guild, for the most part do promote using Guild farriers. But we are few are far between and that leaves a huge void to fill. Nature abhorrs a void, so what gets sucked up to try and fill that void? The BWFA, the new and ever present(thanks to the internet) barefoot trimming guru's.

And Josh, I'll bet that your friend is mighty proud of his credential. And I'll bet he promotes the h*ll out of it. And what average potential client is not also going to be, at least initially, impressed? It reminds me of when the Armed Services were turning out Two Week Wonder officers, also known as 2nd lieutenants. Ya' had to salute them and were supposed to follow their leadership, but doing so often got you killed.

[Bill Adams]

bill you are obviously a bitter old *****
I guess I can't hied a thing from ya.
I have not mentioned the BWFA as they have not lied cheated tried to control the industry
The other posts herein state differently.
and as far as I know they do not have an accused felon running the show.
Thats Rick's line.

I am guessing you are an AFA member and you either feel threatened by the BWFA or you are just another typically narrow minded individual that the AFA seems to attract.
I am a member but curently have much to cause concern and little to cause pride.
To everyone else who has responded I sincerely appreciate all of your input.
yabutt, why yell at me and not them? They made fun and said mean things too. Good thing I'm all ready over it.
You should forgive the AFA so you won't become a "bitter old *****" like me.
Bill

[Rick Burten]

Thats Rick's line.
Bill,

For the record, I said he(the AFA president) is an admitted but not charged or convicted felon. :)

[SlowShoe]

And Josh, I'll bet that your friend is mighty proud of his credential. And I'll bet he promotes the h*ll out of it.

Actually showed it me once and said "yeah, yeah I know, they'll certify your dog right?" =]

-Josh

[Bill Adams]

Bill,

For the record, I said he(the AFA president) is an admitted but not charged or convicted felon. :)

Duely noted. The point of my post was to show where the idea for the line by the other person came from as origanality has been an issue in the past.
We should note too, that the offended party has forgiven the President, who has appoligized and asked forgivness (for the ******, **** and ****er phone call).
Bill

[tbloomer]

Bill,

For the record, I said he(the AFA president) is an admitted but not charged or convicted felon. :)
I'm sure that ALL of the farriers who post on this site declare ALL of the cash that they are paid on their income taxes. Because not declaring that income and not paying taxes on it is a felony. I certainly hope y'all aren't a bunch of tax cheats.

[ray steele]

I'm sure that ALL of the farriers who post on this site declare ALL of the cash that they are paid on their income taxes. Because not declaring that income and not paying taxes on it is a felony. I certainly hope y'all aren't a bunch of tax cheats.


Tom,


or "nuther words" unconvicted felons!!

Regards

Ray Steele

ps I hear that there may be a sale on glass houses,anyone interested?

[Rick Burten]

Remember, that's admitted; not, alleged; not, suspected; not, charged; not; convicted, and not President of the AFA.

Besides, the glass in my house is auto-darkening :)

[Ronald E. Kramedjian]

I'm sure that ALL of the farriers who post on this site declare ALL of the cash that they are paid on their income taxes.

Tom,

As **** as it sounds, I do. Including tip.

Remember, "What a tangled web we weave when we practice to decieve."

I'm just not smart enough to hide it. :eek:

Ron

[calshoer]

Franky, When has the BWFA offered its female members the same educational opportunities and programs like the AFA has.If a female farrier wears tight jeans, a little leather jacket with BWFA on the back and promises to sit close enough to ol' Ralph, , I bet he would let her on his TV show...now thats an opportunity.
Dianne, as for swim suits, I'm out. I dont even usually wear shorts.
Patty