Ongoing Mystery Sidebone Lameness! Very Frustrating!

[Stoppablex]

Hello my name is Sam and i found this site by researching Sidebone related lameness for myself.
I have a 12 yr old ID X Welsh Section D with sidebones.
On Sun 11th June he came in from the field sound and was riden in the morning. However in the afternoon he went very lame almost immediatly by simply going into his first trot on his front right leg. However after sevral days rest he was still lame and on Tuesday 20th (over a week later) he had silicone type pads fitted onto his front feet by recommendation fo the vet and farrier.
However two days later on Thursday 23rd he was still lame and so the vet decided to put him on complete box rest to help aid his recovery. By Tuesday 27th he was still lame and getting very restless on box rest. He started destroyed a rug and his food bowl and started hammering the stable door most of the night. So, to relive his excess energy the vet recommeneded lunging him at walk and trot (mainly walk) for about 10 mins a day.
By Saturday 1st July he was still lame and so it was decided there was little point in continuing box rest as he hated it so he was turned out again and the vet agreed to come out and see him on Tuesday 4th.
When the vet came out he was lame on his front left (instead of his right?) so he nerve blocked him and he came sound. With this the vet gave him 10 days worth of anti inflammatiories and was confident that with no work by Thuesday 18th (two weeks time) he would most definatly be sound.
However after being trotted up on Tuesday 18th he was still lame, much to our vets surprise. So, he decided work him for 20mins a day at walk and trot to see if he could work the problem through!
However tomorrow Tuesday 25th he will have been worked for the week and he is still lame!
However the vet is reluctant to x-ray him because he feels that at his age it may un cover some completly un related problems.
It is extremelly frustrating. May i also add that i have only had him 10 weeks and for 6 of these he has been lame. When he was sound he was wokred 7 days a week for around 30 mins to 1hr a day. Doing mainly schooling but jumping too. Before i had him he was mainly hacked out over slindon woods for about two years!
Any suggestions? WOuld be appreciated!
According to other sources sidebones are very rarely the couase of on gogin lameness and the vet was un concerned and sure he would be sound by Tuesday 18th!
Thanks,
Sam x

[Gary Hill]

Sam , I hate to tell you this but you need a new vet. What vet will tell you to increase the workload of a lame horse? Get a complete workup with a new vet and did you ask your farrier his opinion of the problems? Good Luck! Gary

[Stoppablex]

Hi, Thanks for the reply. my vet said that he may be able to work the problem through. Walk and trot is making him no better but no worse either. My farrier has been giving my advice throughout but he said to contact the vet he had run out of ideas.
Also funny enough i just got a call to say my vet has left and his case will be reffered to a new vet who will contact me tommorrow.

[Stoppablex]

The Vet also said that the reason he was lame on the front right then front left is because one leg ossified and then the other. However 6 weeks later he is still lame! He isnt getting worse but nothing seems to make him better either!

[Rick Burten]

I was going to echo Gary's opinion of the vet.

You need radiographs. And when they take them make sure(as in politely demand) that both feet are on blocks of equal height while the rads are being taken.

How do you know your horse has sidebones? If indeed he does have them, how advanced are they and are they impinging on any other structure in the hoof or pastern?

Did you have a PPE done before you bought him?

[Stoppablex]

Hi Rick!
Yes he was vetted before we had him (if thats what you mean by PPE) and that was when he was said to have sidebones which have alread formed and are un likely to be of any future significanse. (sp?)
Also no one has yet suggested a radiograph i may siggest one when the new vet gets in contact. But the vet is reluctatnt to do anything at the moment including an x-ray as he belives (in his words) it may uncover things which we do not wish to know about at the moment!
Thanks,
Sam x

[Stoppablex]

Also to be honest i dont know if they are impinging on any other structure in the hoof or pastern!
But he did pass a 2* vetting 10 weeks ago and the vet commented that he would have passed a 5* vetting had he had one!

[mmhorseshoeing]

I seem to be missing something here the Vet. recommended not to take x-rays because they might show some thing insignificant well something is making this horse lame and if he goes sound after a hoof block then that is where I would start x-raying. Some of the larger clinics have MRI’s that can pin point the problem area even closer. You should get the x-rays from the PPE and take them with you to compare any changes. The more information that is available to the Vet. and farrier the more they can help you.

[Rick Burten]

John,
You beat me to the punch! :p

What the hell is this vet trying to cover up? Me thinks that there is something rotten in Denmark....

Without radiographs, you have no idea whether or not the sidebones are the problem or not. Geesh, is this vet really the one you want providing services and counsel for you?

[Andalucian]

Yes he was vetted before we had him (if thats what you mean by PPE) and that was when he was said to have sidebones which have alread formed and are un likely to be of any future significanse. (sp?)
Also no one has yet suggested a radiograph i may siggest one when the new vet gets in contact. But the vet is reluctatnt to do anything at the moment including an x-ray as he belives (in his words) it may uncover things which we do not wish to know about at the moment!
Thanks,
Sam x

Hmmm, I'm guessing maybe this is the vet that did the PPE on the horse and is fearful that he missed something major?

Either way, get a second opinion from another equine vet and get x-rays as Rick advises. Then you know what you're dealing with and have a chance to reverse the issues before they escalate. Sticking your head in the sand now is not the answer.

[calshoer]

I can't believe a vet would refuse to do Xrays because it might "uncover something"
The reason TO do X-rays is to help uncover what is making the horse lame! Get another vet asap. This one is either throwing stones in the dark hoping he will just get lucky and hit something , or is just ignorant or cant take decent Xrays. In the meantime your horse is suffering the consequenses.
Patty

[Stoppablex]

Hmmm, I'm guessing maybe this is the vet that did the PPE on the horse and is fearful that he missed something major?


Its funny you should suggest that because the vet that did not want to do the x ray did indeed vet him.
However we now have a new vet and he is going in for x rays this coming Thursday.
Also his lamness isnt consistant which seems odd to me. One day he is serious lame, so lame he can barley wlka on concrete. Yet today he was perfectly sound?
Anyway i will post any news we get from the x rays as soon as we have the results and let you all know.
Thanks for all the help.
Sam x

[hoofnhound]

Good grief,I hope this vet hangs it up and doesn't find another job someplace else.

6 Years ago my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer during a routine mamogram,she was treated and is now 5 1/2 years cancer free.

If she had not had the M/G because 'it might have found something we didn't want to see' where would she be now!!??

Also,
When I bought my morgan gelding 5 years ago,my favourite vet was out of town,so I hired an unknown ( the horse was many miles from my stomping grounds so I had to) for the PPE.

I didn't tell him I was a farrier (though a relative newbie then),he walked around Norman,tapped each foot and proclaimed WLD -"don't buy him".

He then told me that due to his conformation he would be comletely lame and useless within 2 years."don't buy him".

I said thanks..handed him his check and bought the horse.

Knock on wood,still one of the best horses I have ever owned and still riding easily 17 miles over hilly,rocky terrain regularly.

Moral of the story...stick with a trusted vet,and hire a trusted farrier also for the ppe,NEVER go with the vet alone.

Oh yes, and he has never had a speck of WLD.

I often wonder if a PPE from a good farrier is WAY more valuable than one from a vet.

[Stoppablex]

Hi! Darcy is going in for x rays on Thursday.
Funny enough though he has now been worked for two weeks and he is now sound in canter, and coming in and out but he is still slightly lame at trot.
Two different people have also commeneted that he is now un happy working on his left HIND (which has never been a problem). He is also very un happy in himself and he has dropped a lot of weight.
I will let you know Thursday or Firday night the results of the x rays depending on how they go!
Thanks for all the advise
Sam x

[Stoppablex]

OK, on Wednesday my farrier, yard owner and instructor looked at Darcy and he was sound at canter and only slightly lame at trot. So the x rays where cancelled and i was told to continue working him.
By Friday he had had his pads on his hoofs for 6 weeks and so he had them put on again. He was rode briefly at trot after the shoes where done and my farrier looked at him and he was practically sound at trot.
However today i went to ride him and a lesson. My instructor thinks it is the lamest he has been and said he was lame on his from right and front back (back? but its only been his front up to now). May i also add that as his back have been fine all along he is barefoot on the bakc and has been for a while now with no problems what so ever. He was so lame i had to take him out of the lesson.
Its very upsetting considering he is clearly in pain and i have only had him 3 months, 2 of which he has been lame.
Should he have x rays? And should they be on all 4 feet considering he is insured?
I will also mention that he has lost over 40kg in a week. His food has been upped to two feeds a day. His wieght has plummeted, he has lots of lose skin!
I have followed by vets advice, my farriers, both of my instructors and other peoples and im so confused with what to do with him now. No one knows whats still causing his lamness and everyone has a different opinion.
Sam x

[Stoppablex]

Can i also add that his lameness seems to depend on the weather!
As odd or not as it sounds when the weather warms up he is lame, when the weather has been cooler for a couple of days he gets better!
Any suggestions to what could be causing this?
Thanks Sam

[Rick Burten]

OK, on Wednesday my farrier, yard owner and instructor looked at Darcy and he was sound at canter and only slightly lame at trot.
1. Are any of the afore mentioned individuals a veterinarian? If not, then they should stick to what they do best and leave the veterinary diagnosis to the veterinarian.
2. Slightly lame is like being a little bit pregnant.
So the x rays where cancelled and i was told to continue working He was so lame i had to take him out of the lesson.
[quote]Its very upsetting considering he is clearly in pain and i have only had him 3 months, 2 of which he has been lame.
Should he have x rays? And should they be on all 4 feet considering he is insured?
You not only need radiographs, but you also need a full lameness work-up and evaluation.
I have followed by vets advice, my farriers, both of my instructors and other peoples and im so confused with what to do with him now. No one knows whats still causing his lamness and everyone has a different opinion.
Sam x
You need to reduce your team to a manageable number. Two. You and the Vet. Once that part of the exercise has been completed, then you can add the farrier back into the mix, then perhaps, the trainer. As for 'other people'
leave them out of the equation. As you have said, all that is accomplished is mass confusion.

[Stoppablex]

2. Slightly lame is like being a little bit pregnant.

Slightly lame, meaning a huge improvment. Also meaning that if you didnt know how to recognise lameness you would consider him sound because he does not show any signs of "head dropping"

[Rick Burten]

Slightly lame, meaning a huge improvment. Also meaning that if you didnt know how to recognise lameness you would consider him sound because he does not show any signs of "head dropping"
Improvement or not, he's still not sound, right?

Lame is as lame does.

[Stoppablex]

Improvement or not, he's still not sound, right?

Lame is as lame does.
Lol well to be honest im not experienced with lamness. THerefore i havent got enough experience to tell if they are slightly lame still when there are no obviouls clues so yeah i guess he is still lame.

Do you have any ideas as to what could be causing a heat related lameness (as that appears to be the pattern)?

Many Thanks
Sam

[Rick Burten]

Do you have any ideas as to what could be causing a heat related lameness (as that appears to be the pattern)?
Sorry to say, I don't. :(

[Stoppablex]

Sorry to say, I don't. :(
Yea, its really odd i rode him this evening (it has cooled down) and he was much better again!
One day he is really lame, i.e. is sturggling to work, clearly in pain and the next he seems perfectly happy to work and un affected. THe only pattern seems ot be the weather! :(
We are gogin to ring the vet first thing tomorrow morning and ask the evt to come out and see him for himself. Because no one is sure what leg he is lame on, he has been lame on all four at different times.

[Rick Burten]

Idiopathic lameness can be neurological in nature. This may be the result of EPM, West Nile virus, Potomic Fever, Lymes, etc. It may be that the warmer weather is a trigger that brings the symptom(lameness) to a clinical level.

[Stoppablex]

[QUOTE=Rick Burten]Idiopathic lameness can be neurological in nature. This may be the result of EPM, West Nile virus, Patomic Fever, Lymes, [QUOTE]
:confused: Sorry im confused by the long, vet like words! I will go and research them! Thanks for the advice!

[Rick Burten]

Idiopathic lameness can be neurological in nature. This may be the result of EPM, West Nile virus, Potomic Fever, Lymes,
:confused: Sorry im confused by the long, vet like words! I will go and research them! Thanks for the advice!
Idiopathic: arising spontaneously or from an obscure or unknown cause.

Neurological: pertaining to the nervous system

[Stoppablex]

Thanks So much Rick!
Well we will be in contact with the vet first thing tommorrow morning and i will let you know the outcome!
Its So frustrating, one day he is so lame, he is clearly in pain and cant wokrk, yet the next he can w/t/c and even jump and be perfectly happy!
Also he cant make his mind up which leg he is lame on! In the beggining he was lame on FL, then 2 weeks alter the FR. It then altered between the two for some time and Sat he was lame on HR, now today HL!
No one seems to know whats wrong with him!
Thanks anyways!
Will keep you all posted!
Sam

[Stoppablex]

Ok, on Thursday Darcy finally went for x rays and we found the cause of his lameness. He has been diagnosed with a diseased pedal bone and is suffering atheritus in his front left leg.
I have been told it is in currable but treatable. He has been given an injection which will lubricate his joints. He has to have this injection every 6 months (minimum) for the rest of his life. He is also being shod at a different angle to move the weight and pressure.
I have been warned that there may come a time when the period between the injections becomes shorter and shorter until they no longer have effect and at that point he will become incurrably lame. However it could be 2 years it could be 10.
The injections are very expensive and the insurance only covers them for a year and he is onyl 12. So in a years time his condition will be revewed and we will have to make a seriouls descion about his qualtiy of life, and his work expectancy.
A week monday i can start riding him as normal again. However i was told that the heavier the work he does is the quicker the atheritus is likely to develop.
At this stage it is hard to give any kind of long time diagnosis. We are taking each day as it comes and im not thinking too far ahead at the moment.
Thank you all so much for your helpful advice. If anyone could suggest anything which could be of help to him please let me know! (Also does anyone have an opinion on the benifit of magnetic boots)
Thanks
Sam

[vthorseshoe]

After reading the whole posts on this it is seems to me that you are a bit indecisive when faced with a problem.
You should have followed the advice you asked for from the begining and gotten not only x-rays but a complete work-up on this animal. What you know now, you would have found out all this weeks ago.

The vet who vettted the horse prior to buying it sounds to me like he got a kick back friom the previous owner and darn sure didn't want you to know he ok'd a lame animal with serious issues. (he has left the area and you have had a new vet brought in > doesn't that sound like a piece of a smelly puzzle ?)
Once again you should have followed the multitude of folks here who suggested and told you to seek another vet.

Now your still thinking of riding this animal knowing that he may be "sound" and I use that word very loosely, as long as he gets injections ? You yourself told us the injections will mostlikely need to be given at shorter and shorter intervels as time progress's.
Why do you want to ride an animal in this condition ?
Turn him out and let him go through the next few yrs with the least amount of stress on his legs and hooves as time will allow.

I, if it was me, would be getting not only a third vets opinion to confirm the 2nds diagnosis, but also the advice of a darn good lawyer and go after the origional vet.

Farriers are asked advice day in and day out by customers and then they don't follow the advice they asked for. Our simpathy level for these folks gradually gets lower and lower.

I applaud you for seeking advice but question what seems to be procrastination (is that the correct word Rick ?) on your part about putting your animals welfare in the forefront.

I'm not trying to sound like I am picking on you or trying to be rude, I just question WHY you took so long to follow the advice you seeked.?

[Rick Burten]

I applaud you for seeking advice but question what seems to be procrastination (is that the correct word Rick ?) on your part about putting your animals welfare in the forefront.
Good as any inthis instance. :D

[Stoppablex]

After reading the whole posts on this it is seems to me that you are a bit indecisive when faced with a problem.
You should have followed the advice you asked for from the begining and gotten not only x-rays but a complete work-up on this animal. What you know now, you would have found out all this weeks ago.

The vet who vettted the horse prior to buying it sounds to me like he got a kick back friom the previous owner and darn sure didn't want you to know he ok'd a lame animal with serious issues. (he has left the area and you have had a new vet brought in > doesn't that sound like a piece of a smelly puzzle ?)
Once again you should have followed the multitude of folks here who suggested and told you to seek another vet.

Now your still thinking of riding this animal knowing that he may be "sound" and I use that word very loosely, as long as he gets injections ? You yourself told us the injections will mostlikely need to be given at shorter and shorter intervels as time progress's.
Why do you want to ride an animal in this condition ?
Turn him out and let him go through the next few yrs with the least amount of stress on his legs and hooves as time will allow.

I, if it was me, would be getting not only a third vets opinion to confirm the 2nds diagnosis, but also the advice of a darn good lawyer and go after the origional vet.

Farriers are asked advice day in and day out by customers and then they don't follow the advice they asked for. Our simpathy level for these folks gradually gets lower and lower.

I applaud you for seeking advice but question what seems to be procrastination (is that the correct word Rick ?) on your part about putting your animals welfare in the forefront.

I'm not trying to sound like I am picking on you or trying to be rude, I just question WHY you took so long to follow the advice you seeked.?


Ok i would like to adress a few points in this post.
First off yes i agree we could have found out the problem ages ago however because our farreir and vet originally thought the lameness was sidebone related they felt they could only take him in for x rays whilst he was lame. As his lameness is intermitent (sp?) on the first booked day of x rays he was sound! Due to the fact it is atheritus related and the weather had cooled down showing a great improvment. When taken in he was given a work up.

Secondly whilst yes the 1st vet is a little suspisious, we did as suggested follow advice and got a new vet from arundel who has given him the diagnosis.

Thirdly (and the matter i feel strongest about) is a love my horse to bits. I know when he is happy and un happy and i would never work him if he was not happy doing it. Yes eventually atheritus will lead to his reterment because the injections will no longer have affetc. However how long this will be it is not know it could be a years time, it could be 10! Some horse have lived well into the 30's with this condition and have still been worked. Without the injections (which lubricate his joints) he will become stiff and he will be in pain, however the vet is confident that his condition whilst incurable is treatable. Now, you also speak of his "condition" whilst at time (before the diagnosis) he was in pain other days he was perfectly happy. At the moment he is perfectly happy in hiself and is the same old character. I woudl never work my horses in pain or discomfort.

As with persuing the first vet, i feelit is a waste of time to be honest. Yes it may have been a bit fishy but we now have a diagnosis and a good vet. This time has been stressful enough and i dont see that it will achieve much. I dont not wish to do this i would prefer to devote my time to getting Darvy better and tending to his needs.

On the note about not folloing farriers advuice, im not sure what you are suggesting. Let me explain that one of the insturcors and yard managers lives on the yard and is married to my farrier! All of the farriers adivce has been followed. He looked at him reguarrly and gave opinions and often spoke to the vet about Darcy. He is also gogin into arundel tommorrow to look at the x rays with the vet, who is then going to be present whilst he is shod (in this new method) to make sure it is done correctly the first time.

Finally throughout his lameness we have followed all advice given form the evt and farrier. He was not x rayed before because it was belived by vet and farrier that his lameness was side bone related (hence, the thread title) and the vet could not work him up, on a day he wasnt lame.

Im not trying to be rude either but i dont feel you understand the situation enough to suggest i would not consider my animals welfare, all adivce has been followed. I love my horse to bits and his welfare is more importnat to me that anything.

Would be intrested in your response to this!
Sam x

[vthorseshoe]

No need to get into a debate over this. It was and is merely my opinion.
I didn't add anything, just merely made an observation from YOUR words and posts.

[Stoppablex]

I didnt intend to debate. After reading the post again i was a bit quick in my anger to reply. I am very grateful for all the help recieved and im relieved ot have finally diagnosed the problem. I just felt that when you commented about me still wanting to ride ihm this was a very unfair comment. As you do not know the horse, or my personal cir***stances i feel you where not in a postion to comment on my horse ownership and judgement. I love my horses and would never cause un nessacary pain.
Sam x