Hoof for critique

[rafterp2003]

Here is a right hind that I'd like to post for critique and advice. Hopefully you can see the disparity in her heels from the solar view. I couldn't get a good picture of her lower limb, but her bony column lines up to the medial side instead of dead center. I trimmed her to the sole plane and shod her flat...I didnt try to turn the limb. She is a little cowhocked. My main question is, will this mare's hoof balance out with trimming or is it a case of "she is, what she is." The is her second shoeing, she has been running barefoot before this.
Here are 2 views of her when I pulled the old shoes off:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0039-1.jpg
To clarify, this is the right hind, looking down from my view as if I were fixing to work on it. The right side of the photo is the medial side of the foot, left side of the photo lateral side of the foot.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0043.jpg

[rafterp2003]

Here is a solar view after the trim:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0045.jpg
And a posterior view after trimming:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0042.jpg

[rafterp2003]

Here is a solar view of the new shoe:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0049.jpg

[rafterp2003]

Here is a lateral view:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0046.jpg

[rafterp2003]

And a dorsal view:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0047.jpg

[rafterp2003]

Man it's a scary deal to post your work on here, but you guys are the nearest thing I have to someone to ride with. Please mark up these photos to your hearts content. My wife helped me take the pictures, and between the heat and the flies the filly'd had about all she wanted of the whole enterprise. Thanks in advance for your help.

[George Geist]

Dale,
Nice job. Very interesting in that in most cases the apex of the frog will usually point toward the center of the toe. You have one that points slightly off. This is extremely rare. In 26 years of shoeing I've seen it enough times to count on one hand. I would say the hoof is what it is.
Again nice shoeing job though.
George

[Phil Armitage]

Nice work Dale, it is risky posting pictures but it is a good way to get good feedback. Lot of pressure on the medial heel, can see rings and deformed new growth at the hair line. The medial heel is sheared and it looks like it could be trimmed down some more and floated. Looks like the medial/lateral balance is off to me. Wrye foot comes to mind. Radiographs might be needed. Could try a bar shoe with frog support to distribute the weight until you get her figured out.

How does she move? How does she stand for you when you have her foot up? Is she/he lame?

Could be how she is and to late to do anything to correct it.

[calshoer]

Since you asked...its balanced
better but could go down on the lateral side even a little more.
The crookeness appears to be coming from the the pastern and it "is what it is" in a mature horse.
You didn't quite all the retained sole removed, there is still a dead layer ,more on the lateral side. The deep area still present around the apex of the frog indicates some more retained sole. The bit of chalkiness still present in the area between the sole wall junction in the lateral toe, and the more curled lateral heel are your clues that the lateral side is still a little too long. . Other than that its on the way to getting better.
Next time, that lateral toe area will let loose of that bit if chalky layer and the heel will straighten some more once you get it down and back more .

Patty
PS I had a nice allowance race mare with hind pasterns that tipped inward just like that ,yet she sayed sound behind and made an 'on the board' paycheck nearly every race.

[Bill Adams]

Dale,
I see that they put that foot on wrong at the factory. Must have been done by the nite shift.
Good job outa you. M/L balance looks good. Like the way the heels of the shoe come back to the bulbs. I might have taken the heels down a bit more
I may want to use a wide web and fit the medial real full (safed and boxed). I would have held the toe of the shoe back like you did but not dress the foot back so much, just bevel the bottom at the shoe.
Thanks for sticking your neck out.
Bill

[Rick Burten]

I'm not sure that there is a sheared heel. In the before 'picture'(sighting down the hoof), the lateral wall/heel looks high and in the 'after' picture, the medial wall/heel looks high. It appears to me that this horse had a bull-nosed shape to the dorsal wall, which indicated a negative palmer angle to the coffin bone. Also, the medial toe quarter wall is thicker than the lateral wall.

I would have reduced the thickness of the medial toe quarter, trimmed both heels down a bit more, especially the medial heel and tried for more even M/L balance. I probably would have added a frog support bar wedge. When building the shoe, I would have fit it with a blunt/set back toe, tighter on the medial toe quarter, and extended the heels rather than hooking them in over the commissures.

I know this may have come across negatively. Its not meant to. I'm just offering what I see and what I'd do.

[calshoer]

Rick,when you said lower medial heel more I looked again....some of the pics were a bit confising..so now looking again I still think the lateral toe is high,(due to the chalky sole still in there ) but also the MEDIAL heel....it's a diagonal imbalance. Tough foot. Patty

[Redd Mcintyre]

Patty, help a beginner please... with the chalky dead sole around the frog, are you saying to parr away all the chalky and remove the sole from the "lowered" apex level/plane to the edge of toe in this case? Even though the toes area "seems" that it is glossy,
Redd Mcintyre
Hope i worded this question correctly

[Rick Burten]

Rick,when you said lower medial heel more I looked again....some of the pics were a bit confising..
[VLSEG]I know just what you mean :). I found myself, because of the various directions from which the photos were taken, having to remind myself which was the right side and then which was medial and which was lateral. :)
so now looking again I still think the lateral toe is high,(due to the chalky sole still in there ) but also the MEDIAL heel....it's a diagonal imbalance. Tough foot. Patty
I don't necessarily disagree, but based on the last photo the medial wall is too long from the toe to the heel and I'd have to see what lowering it would do before I took any more hoof from the lateral side. Looking at both feet, I get the sense that in general, more could have been safely removed.

[rafterp2003]

Mornin' ya'll! Thanks so much to everyone for posting. This filly belongs to my wife. She rides sound, doesn't go off lame and stands good to be shod...she hasn't been fooled with much. I'm embarrassed to say how long it took me to get iron on the foot I posted...the other 3 feet only took slightly longer. Had a hard time shaping that shoe to support her heel. I can see what ya'll are talking about in terms of removing more sole. My rationale for leaving what I did had to do with the ground we ride on. The pastures are real rocky and the arena is only slightly better...she's not working in sugar sand. Maybe I should pare the sole down more and pad her up for the ground she works on. Maybe a pad with frog support? I don't have the equipment (or skills) to build the shoe Rick was speaking of, but could pad her with some support. I do think we're taking the filly in to have x-rays done, just to see what's going on inside there. If I wanted to post them on here, do I take a digital picture of the rads, and post that? How do ya'll post x-rays on here? Thanks again.

[Rick Burten]

I don't have the equipment (or skills) to build the shoe Rick was speaking of,
If you've got an Ox-acetylene torch, you have the equipment. :) No one here was born with the skill to build shoes, we just practice all the time(and who better to practice on than your wife's horse :D ). You should consider buying a forge. I know they are a bit pricey on the down stroke, but the dividends they pay, are worth the expense. If you haven't joined your state association yet, do so. Go to the meetings/clinics and network. There is lots of help out there just waiting to be useful.
I do think we're taking the filly in to have x-rays done, just to see what's going on inside there. If I wanted to post them on here, do I take a digital picture of the rads, and post that?
Yep :)

[Gary Hill]

I think I would have taken alittle more heel off both sides and then the 5th photo I would have turned an extended heel or slight trailer to support the heel better? The lateral heel is turned in abit too much for me :) .Like Rick ,I have too keep looking back because the 5th photo looks like you are holding the left hind ,then the ground shots are of the right hind??I was taught the terms for these kind of feet was windswept? Good Luck! Gary

[Rick Burten]

Gary, you're in East Texas, TomS is in Katy, Dale is in Alpine. Any way any or all of you could get together for some hands on?

Dale, I'm thinking it might be worth the road trip.

And lets not forget the AAEP meeting in San Antonio the beginning of December(3rd-6th) and the focus is oon the equine foot. Check out the current issue of the AFJ, p.40 for more information.

Also of note to many of us, is the blurb on that page regarding new farrier regulations in Germany that go into effect in July, 2007

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Two posts combined for brevity

rafterp2003 in gray

Man it's a scary deal to post your work on here, but you guys are the nearest thing I have to someone to ride with. Please mark up these photos to your hearts content. My wife helped me take the pictures, and between the heat and the flies the filly'd had about all she wanted of the whole enterprise. Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm not much on marking up photos, but I'll tell you what I see - and it may or may not be applicable to your horse or even worth reading.

I'm guessing that when you sight the unsupported foot down the superficial flexor tendon to the ergot, the line of sight will be somewhat medial to the midline of the foot. Your assessment of "she is what she is" is accurate in my view, so I wouldn't change much of the trim - maybe a tad more medial heel - but I'd change quite a bit of the shoe and its fit.

Assuming she's not whacking herself and her hock's not moving laterally when her hip passes over P3 when she moves - which would require immediate remediation - I'd probably extend the lateral heel, box the toe and safe the medial heel all the way to the toe quarter, then set the shoe under to the white line and noticeably full to the medial heel.

Without seeing the horse move, this is purely speculation, but I think creating a more stable platform and facilitating turnover as outlined might be a good starting place in terms of enhanced biomechanical efficiency - and that slight enhancement might translate to keeping her sound in use, despite having a hind foot like a bastid rat. :)

Rick Burten in brown

Gary, you're in East Texas, TomS is in Katy, Dale is in Alpine. Any way any or all of you could get together for some hands on?

Ledbetter is in Central Texas, about 60 miles east of Austin, which would put me no more than 150 miles west of anywhere in East Texas where Gary lives. Alpine is in West Texas, about 465 miles west of Lesser Ledbetter. Given that gas is selling for $3.099 hereabouts, the chances of us getting together hover around zero, no matter how much we'd like to help out. Texas is a big place. :)

[calshoer]

Here Dale. I marked up the sole view to try to help you a bit more.
I would pare ALL the dead sole off at least the to live sole plane all around the foot to insure optimal balance internally. Then if needed because if the environment, use pads.
The high medial heel is driving a flare on the lateral toe. That is creating the appreance that the frog is not centered, when it really IS centered under the coffin bone . It is just the wall that is distorted, twisted away from center.
I placed a circle around the chalky area at the lateral toe corner and arrows pointing to at a couple of notable chalky areas that indicate there is still one or more layers of dead sole, on the lateral side especially. The dot is close to the actual frog apex and you'll find that it is probably even futher back once you trim all the chalk from around it. Sometimes balancing these feet requires very methodical, tedious and careful exfoliating of the dead sole. Patty

[Rick Burten]

So where's the photo, Patty?????? :D

[Phil Armitage]

Two posts combined for brevity

rafterp2003 in gray

Man it's a scary deal to post your work on here, but you guys are the nearest thing I have to someone to ride with. Please mark up these photos to your hearts content. My wife helped me take the pictures, and between the heat and the flies the filly'd had about all she wanted of the whole enterprise. Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm not much on marking up photos, but I'll tell you what I see - and it may or may not be applicable to your horse or even worth reading.

I'm guessing that when you sight the unsupported foot down the superficial flexor tendon to the ergot, the line of sight will be somewhat medial to the midline of the foot. Your assessment of "she is what she is" is accurate in my view, so I wouldn't change much of the trim - maybe a tad more medial heel - but I'd change quite a bit of the shoe and its fit.

Assuming she's not whacking herself and her hock's not moving laterally when her hip passes over P3 when she moves - which would require immediate remediation - I'd probably extend the lateral heel, box the toe and safe the medial heel all the way to the toe quarter, then set the shoe under to the white line and noticeably full to the medial heel.

Without seeing the horse move, this is purely speculation, but I think creating a more stable platform and facilitating turnover as outlined might be a good starting place in terms of enhanced biomechanical efficiency - and that slight enhancement might translate to keeping her sound in use, despite having a hind foot like a bastid rat. :)

Rick Burten in brown

Gary, you're in East Texas, TomS is in Katy, Dale is in Alpine. Any way any or all of you could get together for some hands on?

Ledbetter is in Central Texas, about 60 miles east of Austin, which would put me no more than 150 miles west of anywhere in East Texas where Gary lives. Alpine is in West Texas, about 465 miles west of Lesser Ledbetter. Given that gas is selling for $3.099 hereabouts, the chances of us getting together hover around zero, no matter how much we'd like to help out. Texas is a big place. :)

Tom, I shod a similar foot a week ago and did pretty much what you explained to Dale. I set the shoe so the boxed toe was in the direction the frog pointed. What are your thoughts on that?

[rafterp2003]

Mr. Stovall...I did a search on here for boxed and safed, but I'm still not sure what those terms mean. I got the impression that "boxed" refers to squaring the toe, but I don't know what "safed" means. By the way, thanks for clarifying just how far it is to Alpine...it's the sticks for sure. I searched Ledbetter on mapquest the other day, just to find out where you're located, in case I ever got over that way and you had time to talk horses.
Rick, I did see the AAEP meeting advertised the other day...it was a little out of my price range, but have no doubt it'd be worth it.

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

rafterp2003 in gray

Mr. Stovall...I did a search on here for boxed and safed, but I'm still not sure what those terms mean. I got the impression that "boxed" refers to squaring the toe, but I don't know what "safed" means.

For a bit of clarification, please see <http://www.katyforge.com/box.htm>.

"Safed" means that anything sharp on the outer edge of the web that could possibly hang on something has been made round by forging, grinding, gnawing, etc.

By the way, thanks for clarifying just how far it is to Alpine...it's the sticks for sure.

Alpine's not far from... er, Lajitas? Sanderson? Ft. Stockton?

I searched Ledbetter on mapquest the other day, just to find out where you're located, in case I ever got over that way and you had time to talk horses.

I've always got time to talk horses and a place to stay for any farrier or rodeo cowboy passing through. We live kinda plain, but we have indoor plumbing and we feed good. :)

[rafterp2003]

Mr. Stovall, thanks for the link...that helped. Alpine's about 60 miles south of Ft. Stockton and an hour west of Sanderson. If I get back over that way I might be obliged to take you up on your hospitable offer.

[calshoer]

So where's the photo, Patty?????? __________________


well, c r a p. :o
I thought I had deleted the whole post because I couldn't get the picture to load (too large even shrunk to the requsite 320 by 280 pixels.) But it's there now. shrunk even smaller. Must have something to do with the resolution. Patty

[Phil Armitage]

Mr. Stovall...I did a search on here for boxed and safed, but I'm still not sure what those terms mean. I got the impression that "boxed" refers to squaring the toe, but I don't know what "safed" means. By the way, thanks for clarifying just how far it is to Alpine...it's the sticks for sure. I searched Ledbetter on mapquest the other day, just to find out where you're located, in case I ever got over that way and you had time to talk horses.
Rick, I did see the AAEP meeting advertised the other day...it was a little out of my price range, but have no doubt it'd be worth it.

Quit calling him Mr. Stoval for crying out loud your going to make him feel old. :)

Boxed means to bevel the foot side of the shoe safed means to bevel the ground side of the shoe maybe it is the other way but you get the idea, this helps prevent pulling shoes from stepping on them. Whenever you fit full on the medial side it is wise to box and safe the shoes can be hammerd or use a grinder. I also use the term boxed when talking about square toes.

[Phil Armitage]

__________________


well, c r a p. :o
I thought I had deleted the whole post because I couldn't get the picture to load (too large even shrunk to the requsite 320 by 280 pixels.) But it's there now. shrunk even smaller. Must have something to do with the resolution. Patty

Hey Patty, did you decide it is the medial heel that needs to come down now? Hard to figure out from a picture isnt it? :eek:

[calshoer]

Hey Patty, did you decide it is the medial heel that needs to come down now? Hard to figure out from a picture isnt it? Yep I agreed with Rick on the medial heel. and I personally would also go at the lateral toe. Like I said, I see a diagonal imbalance. I have occasionally barefooted a lot of them when they were like this too, let them out on abrasive ground, and waited three or four weeks and they set the foot up where they want it. Then dress off residual flares and shoe it as it stands. Thats the easy way out though..... :rolleyes:
Patty

[Rick Burten]

Geez Louise, Patty. How'd you expect an old bi-focal spectacled guy like me to see that itty bitty picture :p And yellow lines to boot :eek:

Couldn't you just put it somewhere else and link us to it? Pretty please. :D

[Rick Burten]

I placed a circle around the chalky area at the lateral toe corner and arrows pointing to at a couple of notable chalky areas that indicate there is still one or more layers of dead sole, on the lateral side especially.
Ummm Patty,

You circled and arrowed the medial side of the hoof :eek: :)

Its a right hind, so when you are looking at it in the perspective of the photo(from behind), the left hind is to your left, making those marked up areas, the medial side of the hoof. Further confirmation is shown by which leg Dale is resting the hoof on. Its his right leg(look which way the toes of his boots are pointing :) ), which means he is standing to the outside of the horse. The only way he can be in that position is to be on the right side of the horse. One last confirmation, look at your avatar.

On the up side of things I said (post # 11)Also, the medial toe quarter wall is thicker than the lateral wall.

I would have reduced the thickness of the medial toe quarter,
So we're seeing the same thing, suggesting the same course of action, we just got our right and left, medial and lateral confused :D

[Gary Hill]

OK, is the 5th picture printed backwards? Because he is on the left side of the horse and I think has his left hand on the hock of the right hind leg? I used to know my right from left? Gary

[rafterp2003]

Right, left, medial, lateral....I'm so confused : :eek: It is the right hind that I'm holding. All the pictures are of the right hind, 'cause that's the one that's giving me fits. With that being clarified, I do get what you are saying. A couple other questions Rick...if I float that heel, how much gap do I leave between the sole and the shoe? Also, do you float that heel from the widest part of the foot back? If I float that heel, should I shorten the time between shoeings? I understand the theory of floating the heel, so the sheered side can return to normal, but it seems like that gap would make the shoe loosen up.

[Gary Hill]

That one photo is the one that threw me! I just couldn't figure out why the other leg had your hand on it???? Knowing now it is the right hind, it is quite out of wammy ? Conformation issues at birth or a younger age influenced the problem you have now. Your last photo is proof of that. Was that an old corn in the lateral heel? I vote to go with a wider web shoe and extend the heels straight back to support the bulbs better. Good Luck with this! Gary

P.S. If you are going to float the heels I always go from the quarters back and either nip off about 1/8 of and inch or less. You can lightly rasp the area to the depth you need. If you have ever seen a shoe that was bent down at a heel but not lost and stayed on the foot for a while you will see the heel grow down to it and cause the whole foot to be unlevel BUT the lack of direct pressure relieved the bulbs and let the foot relax down to it orginal depth?

[Phil Armitage]

Right, left, medial, lateral....I'm so confused : :eek: It is the right hind that I'm holding. All the pictures are of the right hind, 'cause that's the one that's giving me fits. With that being clarified, I do get what you are saying. A couple other questions Rick...if I float that heel, how much gap do I leave between the sole and the shoe? Also, do you float that heel from the widest part of the foot back? If I float that heel, should I shorten the time between shoeings? I understand the theory of floating the heel, so the sheered side can return to normal, but it seems like that gap would make the shoe loosen up.

Dale read my response post 8, simple. I still think that inside heel is on its way to shearing.

Medial = inside
Lateral= outside

The lateral (outside) toe length that Patty mentioned could also be contributeing to the medial (inside) heel pressure. This is why I recommended a bar shoe with frog support. The pressure and forces on this foot are very excessive in certain areas, especially the medial heel. A bar shoe with frog support will help distribute the forces on the foot equally and help get this foot straightened out. Deformaty in the hoof capsule can lead to lameness. This is why I asked if this horse is lame now. But you did not respond to my questions. If you use a bar shoe, I would go with a straight bar and equipak to the ground level for frog support. Might help in one shoeing. You did a nice job trimming and shoeing this foot.

Take care

[Rick Burten]

I still think that inside heel is on its way to shearing.

In the post you reference you said The medial heel is sheared
So, which is it?

Dale,

Gary gave you some good insights into floating a heel. The only thing I'd add is that when you float the heel, you have to add frog support, either with a heart bar shoe or by using other stuff such as EquiPak, Equibuild, etc.

At this point I don't know that floating is actually indicated or needed.

[Phil Armitage]

In the post you reference you said
So, which is it?

Dale,

Gary gave you some good insights into floating a heel. The only thing I'd add is that when you float the heel, you have to add frog support, either with a heart bar shoe or by using other stuff such as EquiPak, Equibuild, etc.

At this point I don't know that floating is actually indicated or needed.

Trying to confuse things Rick? Sheared on its way to being sheared, either one is bad, I agree with Gary the heel may not be sheared. The reason I asked if the horse is lame is help Dale figure out what to do next. For simplicity sake there is a lot of stress on the inside heel and if you read post 8 I recommended bar shoes and floating the medial heel. I also recommended x-rays.

After I visited this thread again this morning and read Dales post on being confused, I thought I would point him to what I said in thread 8. It is simple and to the point.

[Rick Burten]

Trying to confuse things Rick?
I defer to you on this.
Sheared on its way to being sheared, either one is bad,
Some might say that I'm on my way to becoming pregnant. Ain't gonna' happen but to some, it might look that way.
I agree with Gary the heel may not be sheared.
Way to go Phil! Now you've taken a position on both sides of the equation, and found a piece of middle ground too:
1. "The medial heel is shearing". Your 1st position.
2. "I still think that the inside heel is on its way to shearing" Your 2nd position.
3. "I agree with Gary, the heel may not be sheared" Your 3rd position.

Well, you've loaded the bases, your still at bat. Bottom of the 9th, you're down by 3 and you've got a full count. The pitch is thrown and you...?(we await the outcome of your next swing(response). :)
The reason I asked if the horse is lame is help Dale figure out what to do next.
Since you can't even seem to make up your mind on whether or not the hoof is or is not sheared, how can you rationally offer advise on anything related to trimming and shoeing this foot?
For simplicity sake there is a lot of stress on the inside heel and if you read post 8 I recommended bar shoes and floating the medial heel. I also recommended x-rays.
What did the 'before' photos tell you? Is your shoeing recommendation really necessary or would a correct trim resolve the apparent problem(s)?
The lateral (outside) toe length that Patty mentioned could also be contributeing to the medial (inside) heel pressure.
Like Patty, apparently you got confused about which was the medial side and which was the lateral side. Want to try again?
After I visited this thread again this morning and read Dales post on being confused,
Right, left, medial, lateral....I'm so confused
Seems Dale's confusion is with our mixed terminology. Something that I think he'll be able to sort out . Is the stress only(I started to write 'solely' but I didn't want to add to your duress) on the inside(medial) heel, or are there other players?

[Rick Burten]

OK, is the 5th picture printed backwards?
Gary,

On my computer, the 5th photo is the one of the trimmed and shod foot. Is that the one you are referenced? Its the same view as the photo of the trimmed foot that Patty marked-up.

[rafterp2003]

Morning ya'll...I was trying to inject a little levity in post 33...I am familiar with the medial/lateral terminology. I had stated which foot it was, and thought the pictures plainly showed which foot it was. However, being the one who took the pictures could've biased me. It seemed plain to me because I was there:) Phil I responded in post 15 that the mare is sound. I'd probably be more correct in saying she doesn't go off lame. Her soundness is going to be determined by the stress put on the limb that Bill said the night shift put on. Tom is correct that she has a foot like a "bastid rat." Mr. Tom may have coined a new phrase...we've got coon-footed, mule-footed, and the newest description....Rat-footed. Suits her to a T!

Edited to add: My wife doesn't like my description of the gray mare's foot and my 3 year old little girl piped in with, "You shouldn't say that Daddy!"

[Phil Armitage]

Way to go Phil! Now you've taken a position on both sides of the equation, and found a piece of middle ground too:
1. "The medial heel is shearing". Your 1st position.
2. "I still think that the inside heel is on its way to shearing" Your 2nd position.
3. "I agree with Gary, the heel may not be sheared" Your 3rd position.

Well, you've loaded the bases, your still at bat. Bottom of the 9th, you're down by 3 and you've got a full count. The pitch is thrown and you...?(we await the outcome of your next swing(response). :)

Since you can't even seem to make up your mind on whether or not the hoof is or is not sheared, how can you rationally offer advise on anything related to trimming and shoeing this foot?


Good question Rick, logicaly speaking then how can anyone rationaly offer advise? Read my original response, I would try a bar shoe and get x-rays to help figure out what to do. Seems like a pretty logical approach to me. By the way I am starting to get the impression you do not know how heels sheare.

Anyways it sounds Dale has a handle on it and he received some great info.

Glad to see we are argueing again!! :D

[Rick Burten]

By the way I am starting to get the impression you do not know how heels sheare.
While some may consider it bragging, I do infact understand the mechanism and cir***stances which can result in a sheared heel. Not only that, I can spell 'shear', correctly :)

[Phil Armitage]

[QUOTE=Phil Armitage By the way I am starting to get the impression you do not know how heels sheare.
While some may consider it bragging, I do infact understand the mechanism and cir***stances which can result in a sheared hoof. Not only that, I can spell 'shear', correctly :)[/QUOTE]

That is really good Rick, you must be very proud!!!

So what do you think, think that stress on the medial heel can cause shearing. Do you think a bar shoe and trimming it down a little will help? I think so. Wouldnt hurt to prevent it would it.

What is more important preventing it or spelling it. Good grammer and good looks will get you into the door, but what you do will determine if you stay or not.

Take care

[Gary Hill]

Rick , I got confused because I know he said in the beginning the right rear foot was the problem. But the photo I refer to is the one ,where shot from behind the horse, it looks like he is holding the left rear on his knee and his fingers on his left hand on the hock of the right rear? That's why I was wondering can this photo been printed backwards like the negative turned the wrong way? BUT if it was from a cell phone or computer camera then I was wondering WHY his left hand was on the hock of the other leg? Heck maybe it was another horse next to him??? Not real wise to be under one horse that close to another with them hind feet aimed at your head?? Sorry I'm seeing this that way but it must be one of them optical illusions??? Maybe it's my puter? I just counted the photos and there are 7 he posted? I don't see the photo Patty marked up so maybe it is my puter???? Good Info from everyone tho! Best, Gary

[Jaye Perry]

.......What is more important preventing it or spelling it. Good grammer and good looks will get you into the door,.....
We've talked about this Phil!:p

[Phil Armitage]

We've talked about this Phil!:p

I no we ded, sory bout dat.

[J.H. shoeing]

Dale

Come on over to Kerrville and get in with me for a day or two. I'm a little behind after a week of R&R at South Padre or I would ride out to Alpine and get in with you.

Drive over one evening, the next day we can work on a few horses and work in the fire that night, work on a few more the next morning and have you back in Alpine for a late supper.

I can cut the distance from Ledbetter to Alpine in half from here. 250-300 miles?

oh yea, we'll feed ya and keep ya.

[Ronald Aalders]

The way I look at it the medial heel and toe needs to be lowered. In this case it looks like the medial toe interferes with a breakover that should be parallel to the joint spaces as much as possible.

When you lowered the medial side the foot looks may at first scare you the foot may well toe out a lot more. If there's no foot left to take away I may even roll the medial toe or feather it. Put on a symetrical shaped bar shoe and you'll find that the medial side of the shoe and maybe some of the lateral toe will extend. Repunch and use superfast or adhere beige.

That's what I would do.



Ronald Aalders

p.s. I know this works, simply you see this picture in various degrees on hinds of reiners that have been trimmed and shod low on the lateral heel to fix spreading.........

[rafterp2003]

Thanks Jeff...couldn't ask for a more hospitable offer. I'll have to check the schedule and see what we can work out.
Thanks Ronald...that seems to be the consensus, lower the medial side. I've got an appointment with the vet for rads, I'll try and post them on here too.
All of you have been a tremendous help.

[smitty88]

Here is a solar view of the new shoe:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/runaway_bay/DSCN0049.jpg

to me this is an off hind
if i was shoeing this fella tomoro i would try to balance

the foot more
in the way of bringing his toe back
i would try and lower both heels keeping them level


i would try to put toe and heel quarters on the foot
to take that long sraight look away

fitting the shoe i would do the same put
iron where it should be give him a better balanced look

next shoeing if i was not happy i would go with
a bar shoe

Dale good stuff a hard foot to tackle for everybody

[Midwest farrier]

Hello rafterp.In my opinion the RH looks high on the medial side.The hairline looks pushed up near the medial heel.On the dorsal view the hoof is cocked and turned in.The hairline at the medial toe looks jammed.The shoe fit looks more like a left hind.Don't ever let anyone tell you to straighten cowhocks.Just trim to balance the hoof to the pastern.Nice photos.Thanks.

[rafterp2003]

Gentlemen I have an appointment Saturday, 8/5 for Xrays of this gray mare. After reading all replies I've been curious as to what things look like inside that capsule. To that end, what views do you think would be helpful? I was figuring on one head on shot from the front and one direct shot from the side. Any other suggestions?