Redden vs. Chapman

[Ronald Aalders]

As a shoer I've learned a lot by asking questions. Apparently I'm not smart enough to think of some anwers myself. But with a little help I may end up an ok shoer in the end......... Whenever that may be!

Being fascinated with the effects of DDFT pull on the equine foot you'll often find me ruining my good looks (LOL) behind a computer screen looking for interesting stuff on this subject on the internet. The other day I ran into a website set up by a guy called Peter Vandyke. www.olympus.net/personal/pvd/pvd.html Obviously Mr. Vandyke is very impressed by the research done by the late Burney Chapman. And I guess he ought to be.

As far as I came to understand them, the main points in this treatment protocol are (frog)support and dorsal hoofwall resection. The reason for the support is immobilization of P3 in its normal relationship to the coronary corium allowing perfusion enhancing healing conditions of torn lamellae, the bond between the hoofwall and P3. To prevent obstruction of bloodflow as much as possible such support should be provided through a heart bar. No sole covering hoofpacks should be used to limit the risk of destroying bloodflow. When despite this support P3 rotates or already rotated, a lamellar wedge will occur between the face of P3 and the hoofwall. This wedge "consists of epidermal tissue proliferating to form a weak, disorganised mass" as Dr. C.C. Pollit puts it. From a mechanical point of view it seems logical to remove this wedge as it sits between the hoofwall and P3 and creates a wedge keeping these two apart preventing a secure lamellar bond between P3 and the hoofwall.

Dr. Ric Redden's approach is another one. Redden's main point is reducing DDFT pull. Redden says that P3 should be considered as if it's lying in a hammock. This "hammock" is created by DDFT as it cradles P3 ventral/palmarly and dorsal lamellae holding the other end. In this view the lamellae act as antagonists to DDFT in the equine foot. When the lamellae give, DDFT pull remains, forcing P3 to rotate. By reducing DDFT pull, the pull on P3 forcing it to rotate is also reduced. DDFT pull can be reduced by raising the heels with 20+ degrees (somewhere between 20 and 25 degrees) when the foot was a normal one when laminitis struck. To further prevent DDFT pull acting on P3 the foot's breakover should be brought back as much as the apex of P3. (Íf I understand him correctly Redden now endorses a spot for breakover at the center of articulation of P3, which is even further back) Redden does not like resections but wants to leave the hoof capsule as strong as possible. No resections, no grooving. The reduction of DDFT pull will reduce the crushing of the cir***flex vessels in the foot, allowing perfusion of the solar corium creating sole mass. This will protect the foot.

Both views are views of people with extensive experience treating laminitic horses, but they're on both sides of the scale facing each other! I would think that after treating so many horse like these guys have a universal protocol would come up sooner or later. But nothing like that.

In Redden's view a DDFT tenotomy is a life saver at times, while Chapman c.s. say rotation has nothing to do with DDFT pull! You can not get more opposite of each other than that! Anyone who has read some of the relevant postings on this board knows I'm in favour of Redden's approach. I don't know which side is more succesfull in treating laminitic horses, if such a statistic has any value at all. But I would like to know how two totally different treatments can exist together without one of them getting obsolete?

What do you think? What tactics do you use when faced with a laminitic horse? An other theories I haven't heard of? Any other input you'ld like to share?

Thank you,


Ronald Aalders

[Jason Maki]

Ronald,
I am not an expert on Laminitis. I do have my own opinions and limited experience, which I will gladly share. Oddly enough, my thinking is somewhere in the middle, though leaning towards the Chapman side. This may be because my training has been much more towards the "traditional" side.
I am going to state some very elementary thoughts, not so much as to "educate", but simply to make my thinking clear; please bear with me if I seem pedantic.
Founder, in my thinking, is the direct result of impingement of the blood supply to the sensitive laminae. The cause of this thrombosis could be metabolic, injury, carbo overload or any combination of the the three( or many others). As a farrier, I am a mechanic, and my job is to hold PIII in place untill the blood supply can be reasserted. The front half of the hoof is bonded via the laminae to PIII. The rear half of the hoof is composed of the digital cushion, the sensitive frog , and the horny frog( can a frog be sensitive and horny at the same time Chris Gregory used to ask...?) This dense soft tissue does not have nearly the vascular supply . When the laminae begin to die, the bond is compromised and PIII will descend slightly within the capsule, run into the stop of the soft tissue in the back of the foot and begin to tip forward, tearing the weakened laminae at the toe, creating the lammellar wedge. Piii will assert pressure on the solar corium and pinch the cir***flex artery. Many times, when resetting a heart bar for the first time, a huge bloody/ serum, crescent shaped bruise is present at the distal end of PIII in the sole. If the PIII support was sufficient, this pocket is not present in subsequent resets. The pressure from piii is no longer present, therefore the bruising disapates. The lack of blood supply to the frog enables it to exert support uppwards from Ducketts dot without damaging blood supply. The perceanal ( I will spell that wrong) arteries run along both medial and lateral sides of the frog, thus the plate musst only touch the frog, and must not extend beyond ducketts dot. This support holds PIII in place and stops the tearing which is a direct result of the dead laminae. The DDFT will not cause rotation in a strong hoof, thus can not be the primary cause of rotation. The dead laminae are susceptable to the increased pull of the ddft caused by the minute sink which occurs at the inception of an acute laminitic attack . This is a little bit of a chicken and the egg, argument. I think the damaged laminae is the egg, or primary cause, then the chicken that hatches is the increased tension of the ddft secondary to the thrombosis and distal displacement.
Wedging a foot that is in anacuute phase without substantial frog support will produce a PIII peeking out of the sole. While tipping PIII forward will alleviate the pull of the ddft, it will in fact increase the load on the already comprimised laminar attachment of piii to the laminae, and wall. Sole loading only would create a hammer and anvil affect on the sole and cir***flex artery. PIII would be crushing down from above under the shear mass of the horse, and the secondary increased pull of the ddft, and the exact opposite force wiuld then be pushing UP into the sole pinching the already dimdinished blood supply.
Ideally as much weight bearing as possible should be removed from the wall, and placed upon the frog, which is a structure designed for primary weight bearing. If wedging is needed, a two phase system should be used: A properly fit heart bar with proper frog support, then a layer of equipak as a secondary cushion to reduce the pressure that weight bearing produces from the ground up, and from PIII down. In this scenario, wedging the foot in the acute pahse appears risky. Remodeling a chronic foot presents a different set of variables.
As to breakover in an acute case, I use a deep seated, perimeter fit with a roll the whole web. This horse is only semi ambulatory, but i want to protect the entire capsule, while limiting the effort required for him to move about, this limits the stress created by the pull of the ddft.
I have had only six cases of founder, so my experience is limited, but with the above thinking, all returned to their pre- syndrome jobs. There are shoers who have done hundreds or perhaps thousand, maybe they can give much more precise ansewers.
My basic tentets are:
Correct frog support
Isolate piii from the mass of the horse and the secondary pull of the ddft
Limit stress under motion
vet finds the medical cause and solves it!
Pray, Pray, Pray!
Jason Maki CJF

[Phil Armitage]

Hey guys, I was just getting ready to post some questions and I caught this thread. I have had the same question as Ronald, as to how can there be so many different aproaches to problems from very expereinced people, I also have thought these individuals must be having success in with there theory and methods or they would not be so passionate about it for so long.

Here are some questions that I have related to the health and stability of the horses foot, when using frog support, lameness and environment. I feel we need to consider the environment of the horse more than anything else before we decide what type of method of shoeing we will use. I think we all agree that a healthy foot that is dry and hard is more stable. A horse located in a part of the country that is dry and hard may need something different than a horse located in a wet and soft footing. For example impression material and a frog support pad probably works very well in dry hard footing and a heart bar shoe or heart bar pad might work better in a wet and soft environment. Many ideas are developed and tried and work well in one part of the country and be ineffective or even do harm in another part of the country simply due to differences in the ground and moisture content of the foot.

• Does Back pain and/or upper limb lameness affect the stability and health of the foot and can we as Farriers help these situations out with shoeing?
• Since the use of impression material and Equipak the terms "P-3 Vibration" and "Unstable P-3" are coming up more often. What does this mean, what are the signs and the cause of this?
• What is proper frog support and/or pressure? What is too much or not enough?
• How does the horses location and environment affect frog support and stability of P-3?

[Ronald Aalders]

Hi guys,

Let me tell you a story (pure fiction of course..........) about a shoer and a laminitic horse.

Once upon a time, many, many years ago there was a WP trainer that had met this shoer from Amsterdam. Both of them worked pretty succesfully on a number of horses and were pretty much pleased with themselves.

At one time the trainer decided to show one of his horses in some show to be held in Columbus Ohio. His horse was a stud and also a study pri*k. All steps, yes all steps, were taken to prevent this horse getting aroused by some cute mare that may just be jogging along the rail a few steps in front of him.

Anyway the trainer flew in the shoer and they both agreed to shoe the horse two days before his class started. The horse was wedged up a lot to get the best movement out of him. While shoeing the horse he proved a bit of a pain to work with, which was funny since he had shod the horse for over a year and he was always ok. Maybe it was the tent, the wind, the heaters or whatever.....

After removing the frontshoes the horses started to be an ***hole even more. In the end however the horse was shod fronts and hinds with the shoes the trainer and shoer had decided on and it was a very good job too. The horse was SORE though. Shoot a hot nail the shoer thought briefly! But he was a little too experienced to let that thought linger any longer in his head. (This is all fiction remember) First of all the horse was much too sore for that, also you can hotnail a horse on one foot but on two is less likely. Further the horse had a digital pulse you could see, you did not have to feel it pounding. Of course in a tent like that there's likely to be the one 'famous' shoer (he flies a lot I'm told) who was convinced that the **** shoer from Europe did hotnail the horse on both fronts. Luckily the **** shoer turned out to be a little smarter and had a vet called. The vet agreed with the shoer and as it turned out diagnosed the laminitic attack correctly.

Now for the true part of this story. The horse that could barely walk was put on ACP and banamine and had styrofoam blocks taped to its feet. This was within an hour from the onset of the attack. What happened as soon as the big very strong horse tried to get rid of the pain in its feet is the best argument for Redden's view that the vet and shoer ever saw. The horse literally crushed its toes trough the styrofoam blocks (with shoes and all) and stood there with a steep (20+ degree?) angle and a look of relief in its eyes. In that position the horse could walk a lot better and got in its stall and managed to go show two days later......

Everyone reading these boards knows I'm not an advocate for any type of shoeing per se. But if I'm faced with a laminitic horse I'm listening to Redden! However I presume the Chapman people have impressive recovery rates too or else they would have changed their regime. So how can two mechanically totally different ways of treatment get us to the same result? (Presuming again that recovery rates are similar)



Ronald Aalders

[Phil Armitage]

I can see the benifits of both camps, wedgeing at the onset of laminitis to prevent more mechanical pull or leverage on P3 makes a lot of sense, however once the damage is done and P-3 has rotated, I think frog support and breakover makes better sense as the horse recovers and grows a new foot. I would think there would be adverse affects to the rest of the suspensory system if left wedged up. It is more common for the Vet and Farrier to treat foundered horses after the damage is done, now your dealing with a different problem and the footing, location etc. play a big role as to what type of shoeing will work for long periods of time. Whenever I have applied foam blocks very early, there is less damage to the feet and shorter recovery time. I feel that whenever laminitis is suspected it can't hurt to apply foam blocks and let the horse compress them where they need it. I just did this with a horse off the track, that was lame up front in one foot, Vet could not find the cause of lameness, so I suggested putting on foam blocks, I use the purple pads and impression material for a couple of weeks, he was more comfortalble right away. He had heat and pulse in one foot, no signes of abcess, they tried soaking and poultices for over a week. I suspected close nail or sole pressure, but I am not sure. Never flinched on any of the nails and he did not flinch to hoof testers in the toe, go figure. But removeing the shoes and applying foam blocks and impression material duct taped on instantly relieved pressure somewhere. The horse is now fine, could it have been laminiits and the frog support helped? The purple pads are only 1/2 inch thick and do not compress so the angle of the foot did not change.

[Jason Maki]

Ronald,
In your Congress scenario, the wedging combined with the stryofom probobly isolated PIII from the mass of the horse, and the pull of the ddft. That may be the key, isolate PIII from weight and the forces smashing it down, and from the pull of the leash of the ddft.... which may be the hangmans noose... hanging from the hang mans tree....smack that horse on the ***.. with his last dying gasp.. you could hear him neigh... bring me some water...( Eddie Money would say)
SOrry, a good discussion has me breaking into song!
Jason

[Ronald Aalders]

I was wondering, would it be save to say that succes with any other method than the one Redden worked out will only stand a chance with chronic cases?I think that any succes in treating acute cases w/o dramatically reducing DDFT pull is not proof that protocol is valid, but just that sometimes healing powers are stronger than we can phantom.

I feel that also in chronic cases (obviously) derotation should take place, but also that heels must be loaded by raising them. Breakover should be brought back to the center of articulation of P3. By doing so the apex of P3 gets unloaded and the crushing of cir***flex vessels is reduced. The bloodflow to the solar corium will increase and the sole will get thicker. This will provide added protection and help to reduce pain and maybe reduce any contraction of the muscles attached to DDFT because of that pain. In line with the healing of the feet they can be weaned off of the wedges. (Don't underestimate the time this will take!) Only in a few cases I found resection of the dorsal hoofwall and removal of the lamellar wedge necessary (I treated more than one laminitis case but obviously not nearly as much as Chapman and Redden have). I can see how Chapman's protocol (if I can put it like that) could work on a stable chronic case. The more rotation is present the more likely succes with that method is IF AND WHEN the remaining lamellae can handle the pull! But why take a chance on those damaged lamellae?

Save a lamella, reduce DDFT pull!


Ronald Aalders

[Stephen E. O'Grady, DVM]

Ronald

I will play the devils advocate again and say neither one of these methods are proven. So little in laminitis actually is proven. The one point I think you are missing is the weight of the horse and we have no practical way of eleminating this factor. Recovery from laminitis using whatever method is based on the severity and amount of the laminar damage.

I enjoy these threads

Stephen E O'Grady, DVM

[Jason Maki]

Dr. Meyers,
I alluded to the mass of the horse as the primary reason for rotation after the laminae are compromised in an acute situation, while the pull of the ddft is secondary. I have always thought the use of frog support was to transfer the mass of the horse from the wall, and white line to a semi-non vascular region, the frog. This, coupled with wedging and soft sole loading, say equipak, can load non compromised tissue and limit the damage caused by the mass pushing down and the noose of the ddft. Deep bedding, or deep sand might help too? Is the stress of slinging a horse even for inttermittent periods to great to have any benefits? What about an aquatic tank that would use the principle of displacement to help an animal carry less mass on his feet? This would again have to be cyclical. I am more interested in the mechanical aspect of isolating and holding PIII in place within the capsule than I am of root causes of laminitis. That is for far greater and more educated minds than mine!! :D
Jason Maki CJF

[Stephen E. O'Grady, DVM]

I am more interested in the mechanical aspect of isolating and holding PIII in place within the capsule than I am of root causes of laminitis.

As much as this is theorized, it can't be done.

Stephen E. O'Grady, DVM

[Ronald Aalders]

Dr. O'Grady,

I appreciate that almost nothing can be proven (sofar?) in laminitis treatments and its merits. But ever since I saw this horse crush trough the styrofoam and the relief it brought, I've been keeping more than a close eye on publications confirming what I thought I had learned up there in freezing Ohio.

I'm not a scientist and I never liked public statements that are not backed up by thorough research. Here I'll make an exception. I have a decent experience shoeing horses. Sofar the only way I found to increase sole depth within weeks is to dramatically reduce DDFT pull. I have tried this on a variety of horses for about two years, no exceptions sofar. Usually when I feel there is a need for DDFT pull reduction I use banana shoes. But a stack of wedges works too. (With a banana you'll never be able to increase the palmar angle of P3 with more then what? 10 degrees or so) Every horse where DDFT pull was significantly reduced grew big time sole. Not all grew heels back though. Not all got better either, but every horse grew a lot of sole. I have not heard of any way of shoeing that could offer the same in this small amount of time.

When I hear Redden say that this is caused by (re)perfusion of the solar corium I'm happy to accept this. Dr. Rooney told me once privately that this statement is not proven either. This did surprise me a lot since I would think it's pretty easy to proof with a venogram. But shoot I'm a shoer not a vet.

However experiencing in the field that DDFT reduction allows sole to grow, does make it easier to understand that when in a laminitis case DDFT pull is reduced significantly, the horse will grow more sole and find its feet better protected.

Personally I experienced that clubfooted horses that are not properly cared for get very sore in the toe area. Likely this is caused by P3 pressing on the cir***flex vessels, solar corium or whatever else the Lord thought was important enough to squeeze in there. Without exception (sofar) I could fix these horses by dropping the heels (derotation) and easing breakover with a banana shoe and a 3 degree wedge. This is field experience but pretty strong if it works everytime I would say. (I know I may get to regret saying it works all the time........)

When I combine my clubfoot experience, (derotation to ease pressure off of the apex of P3) and raising heels on acute laminitic horses like I saw in Ohio I'm likely to end up with a protocol like Redden's. If I was smart enough to work something like that out on my own, which I'm not.

So when I hear everybody around me say it's not proven, I have to ask you what else am I supposed to do??? I tried to get information on the side effects of the banana and the wedging deal as you've noted on these boards. (I can't think of another way) I tried to get more information on the effects the DDFT has on P3 and that helped! I'm really happy people on these boards want to share their knowledge.

I'm happy to accept that Redden's statements are not proven, I'll even accept he's always been very lucky in treating his patients (what can you expect from a guy that used to wear his hair in a pony tail) but in the field I notice that more sole grows when DDFT pull is reduced more. Combine this with a laminitic situation (inflammation of laminae, ischemia, causing the P3/hoofwall bond to tear away where the pull peaks, the dorsal hoofwall) and I can not get to any other save way to treat laminitic horses. It's the only way to increase sole depth as soon as possible. Also from the mechanical effect (the tearing of mostly dorsal laminae) I can only tell that DDFT is to blame for rotation. Why else do all non-sinkers rotate like that?

Maybe I overdo my fascination for laminitic cases but I'm not blind to better arguments. Please proof me wrong!


Ronald Aalders

[chris nolan]

Working to establish solutions to solve the wide variety of hoof problems that so many horses endure, will likely forever be a difficult challenge. Many of us strive to better understand and appreciate the pathology of the equine foot.

Very recently, and honestly by accident, my brother Mike who is an experienced farrier with a devoted passion for the best care of horses, created what we call the Nolan Hoofplate (see on web site:www.hoofplate.com). While we are still very early in our work and cautiously optimistic about the results the hoofplates are proving for us, now like others around the country, we're looking for and asking other farriers to try this device while following our application technique recommendations (actually very simple) and see if you don't get the same results we do.

Throughout the remainder of 2004 we will be providing farriers and vets with free Nolan Hoofplates in exchnage for constructive feedback in writing and photo's. Why, because over the past 2 years, not only owners are excited by the improvements they're seeing, but over 25 experienced farriers in 7 states and several excellent vets with proven expertise in equine podiatry have gone from being complete skeptics (even negative) to firm believers in the Nolan Hoofplate. This is happening in our opinion for only one reason - it's working. While it works particularly well for severe toe and quarter cracks, shelly and splayed hooves and horses with under run heels, we are also observing some very encouraging and significant changes taking place on foundered horses of many breeds, and other hooved animals as well.

The first and most common response we get by most farriers and vets is to say this must be some kind of "gimmick". However, I can give you my assurance it is not and this is not our intention of agenda to try and fool an entire industry. We're quite serious about this little wonder as it may hold the secret long desired by many equestrians , farriers and vets. We're not promising or gauranteeing anything, but it is absolutely worth additional study by anyone who is willing to be objective.

We believe that the Nolan Hoofplate will improve the quality of life for many horses in the future by simply applying this inexpensive mechanical application that we just happened to stumble upon. We're particularly pleased with the early involvement and testing help from Dr.s Teegardin and Brock as well as Paul Teegardin Jr. and Baker Chapman in Lubbock, Texas.

As I read through Ronald Aalders post entitiled "Redden vs. Chapman" I found it to be enjoyable and interesting that there is so much commonality of interest in such diverse methods to addressing the pathology of the foot. I believe that there is valid and useful information to be learned here by the respective perceptions that Aalders points out between Dr. Redden and the late Burney Chapman.

While I can't yet scientifically provide formal research conclusions to show you the reasons for so much success with the Nolan Hoofplate, I can unequivocably say I've seen for myself what a number of vets have described as "unbelievable results" due to the application of the Nolan Hoofplate.

Today I received a call from a very knowledgable and well known farrier who is now conducting extensive testing and research of the Nolan Hoofplate. He was very encouraging to talk with as I compared notes between those of my recent conversations with Dr. D. Butler, Dr. Brock, Dr. Teegardin and Dr. O'Grady as well as a handful of other excellent equine professionals. We're discovering that the reason for the success we're having by using the Nolan Hoofplate is because we believe it's stimulating and even redirecting blood flow inside the hoof.

What we are seeing on X-rays, while limited, is also encouraging. It's been observed over and over that when Nolan Hoofplates are applied (always in pairs), and then following 14 to 16 weeks of uninterrupted installation time, the P-3 (coffin bone) is rotating approximately 2 to 3 degrees and ...the laminitic wedge is visibly dissapearing without hoof resectioning or any other procedure. Further there is more than usual excessive growth of the frog, heels, and sole. We're also seeing (following an initial 3 weeks of application tiem) a half inch or more of new hoof growth each month, even on horses that sometimes don't have much hoof growth. This growth rate continues during the entire time the Nolan Hoofplate stays on (not recommended for more than 16 weeks).

So what's going on you ask? Good question! We don't really know for sure yet, but...you can help us find out if you're interested in honestly trying this yourself.

What we do know for sure is that the Nolan Hoofplate, upon application, is providing to be a means to significantly stablized and thus provide added strength to the dorsal wall as well as the radial and medial walls. Further this is supporting the P3 movement and clearly appears to be improving the ability for the cir***flex artery to move blood inside the hoof. While studying the work of C. C. Pollitt and experiencing more anicdotal evidence in the field with vets and farriers alike, we're seeing and better understanding some parallels to results defined by Dr. Pollitts work. Experienced farriers are often aware that generally speaking, a long toed horse (i.e. thoroughbreds) often don't have as healthy a foot in some respects as say a horse that is with a "natural" trim. However, with the use of the Nolan Hoofplate which supports the hoofwall and effectively immobilizes P3, it is clearly enhancing the healing conditions of torn lamellae, and the hoofplate is proving to be responsible for the aggressive growth of the heels, sole, and frog.

Interestingly, we have also learned that the distal cushion seems to enlarge when there is good circulation which is being created by the Nolan Hoofplate. I discussed these observations with Dr. O'Grady last week. In fact I made the comment that I believed that this redirected blood flow may be causing the growth of the distal cushion. However, Dr. O'Grady informed me that I was mistaken in my conclusion because in his opinion, the distal cushion doesn't grow or regenerate new tissue, even with increased blood flow. However, according to other vets, what the redirected blood flow can be doing is increasing the actual size of the distal cushion and frog. In every case its easy for any farrier to see this frog growth obviously. Another vet and farrier however later pointed out to me that the distal cushion could be compared to that of prune and a plum or an unused muscle vs. a toned strengthened muscle. Under recent clinical observation and measurement it's been observed that from the use of the Nolan Hoofplate, that over a period of just a couple of days following its proper application, that the distal cushion typically is enlarging in it's cavity and it is likely that this increase in size is also perhaps responsible for the rotation of the entire hoof capsule we see in conjunction with the rotation of the P3 and thus is resulting in a very improved hoof within generally 12 to 16 weeks.

While we have now treated slightly more than 100 horses to date, 30 of those horses suffered with founder and without exception, all have appeared to returned to a sound condition. Most all the other horse were treated for Cracks and shelly or splayed hooves. Further, to date, not a single horse has experienced a reversal or deterioration of its hoof condition following the removal of the Nolan Hoofplate.

We understand that these are very limited examples and result, and certainly we're not rying to say this is conclusively proven methodology for treating certain hoof conditions. But, we are continuing our work and planning on launching formal clinical research around this during 2005 to further validate, do***ent and publish the results through best practices. We are currently looking to identify the most qualified researchers and properly equipped research facility for this kind of work.

In the meantime, we are in need of and asking any farrier or vet to try these and tell us, good or bad, what results your getting. If we or anyone else keep seeing such good results, then why wouldn't you at least try this to see for yourself?

Finally, Dr. Paul Teegardin recently pointed out that these hoofplates may also eliminate, is some cases, the need to resection a hoof, do a tenodomy or even use clips on shoes. Time will tell.

We appreciate all the great help we're receiving from Florida, California, Texas, New Hampshire, Colorado, Kentucky and Ohio from farriers and vets. Please give me your comments and if anyone wants to try these, then give me a call at (513) 309-7287. I hope that the Nolan Hoofplate can help you improve the services to your customers and ultimately prove to keep our four legged friends in better condition.

"Mike Nolan brings forth the most important adjunct to horseshoeing serving a wide variety of the****udic applications in affronting pathology of the equine hoof"
-Dr. Paul W. Teegardin, DVM

[chris nolan]

see Redden vs Chapman reply from Nolan on the Nolan Hoofplate.

[Phil Armitage]

Hi Chris, the same thing can be accomplished by applying Equithane Superfast or Adhere or any hoof repair urithaine or Acrylic. I have done this on several horses that appear to have weak hoof capsules and the results are positive.

[Mike Ferrara]

Looks like a big quarter crack plate. they work so I wouldn't be suprised if wraping the whole foot in one would halp sometimes too.

[Dances with Hooves]

Also the same "wrapping" effect is available with the EDSS cuff shoe and with the stewart clog (when the clog is glued on using superfast).

I downloaded the PDF on the Nolan hoofplate and the application seems challanging. Particularly the steps where one must drive a nail and have it exit thru the small holes in the plate. I also am not excited at the prospect of driving the 2 toe nails and (as the instructions call for) not wringing them off. An unrung nail seems to invite disaster.


George

[calshoer]

I think I may have one idea of why plates on the hoofwall may be helping with laminitis... ...just some thoughts to ponder with no real basis other than I was kept awake thinking about it.

Most laminitis cases now days are metabolic...ie insulin resistant or cushings or some related syndrome where they end up with too much cortisol.
Excess Cortisol pulls protein out of ALL the conective tissues in the body, muscles AND ligaments. It really weakens them. That is probably one reason why those horses have continually sinking in P3, and do not like lateral torsion or flexion in the foot.
Those horses do not like expansion in the hoof capsule because all the laminae are damaged, all around the hoof,so it hurts to move the heels apart.

OK heres my thought.
As P3 sinks, it may push the bottom of the hoof capsule apart, thereby allowing even more sinking past the continually torn weakened laminae .

COULD preventing the widening of the hoof capsule away from the bone with a metal band, or clips, or EDSS cuffs, result in not allowing room for P3 to move downward so much...in other words helping the hoofwall hold the bone up in the capsule more where it belongs just by keeping it from spreading?
Something to keep you awake thinking about.
Patty

[Ronald Aalders]

Patty,

Wrapping a steel band around a hoof may be beneficial to the horse, but somehow I get this feel I have when I see a shoe with an extended toe to fix a clubfoot. With you I'm sure the hoof widens when the sole drops and loses its concave shape. When a steel band is wrapped around the foot fixing it and preventing this widening something is going to happen. But I don't think its going to be pleasant. It may well keep to appearance of the foot normal, but don't we just mask the problems this way causing other problems in the process?

Another thing is if this device works the way I personally was assured, why don't we just use our own strip of tin? We could cut out what we need ourselves and attach it to the hoofwall the way we want.



Ronald Aalders

[calshoer]

I don't know...you make great points. I was just pondering what the band might be doing biomechanicallty to the foot if they are truly getting the results they say. It's a puzzler. Even they admit they don't know why it helps. . Patty

[Phil Armitage]

Guys that use glue on shoes that are applied with the mesh around the hoof capsule claim it strengthens and stablises the foot. I have used equithane adhere and superfast around the entire foot and it seems to stableise the hoof capsule. One horse I did had constant rings, flat sole and flared hoof capsule, after I applied the Equitaine a couple of times the feet looked much better, concaved soles and straighter hoof wall. They have been stronger ever since. So it does something, why I don't know.

[TE Couch]

Seems it is accepted that expansion of the capsule and a slight descending of the bone along with the vaulted sole is the healthy condition - so, it seems reasonable that if you can cast the hoof or prevent as much movement as possible you can "hold" the hoof in a vaulted state to a large degree - ( as long as the laminar connection is still enough to support weight ) however, it seems reasonable that in doing this blood flow to the hoof is reduced, therefore, nerve function is also reduced. ( Pollitts video shows an alternate (reduced) path for blood to the toe that is available - otherwise the hoof would "die" off entirely ) That reduced blood flow equals reduced sensation is proven in human terms but not in the horse.
TE

[Dave Purves]

So what's wrong with that? I little numbness never hurt anyone.
Anyway, I've never personally built a shoe from adhere but have heard that it works. My question goes hand in hand with glueing shoes on
How can you help the foot get healthy if the heels cannot expand? Don't you usually end up with some contraction? It's been hypothisized that the heels expand when loaded and the toe moves palmarly. I've never felt good about glueing shoes on and glueing behind the widest part of the foot. If I have to glue then I will but I try not to glue behind the widest part of the foot. Does the band do the same thing?
Dave Purves CF :)

[Mike Ferrara]

I think this is an interesting article on hoof (specifically heel) expansion. here (http://www.horseshoes.com/advice/heelexp/hlex-sw.htm)

I couldn't prove it but I think we see more problems due to too much expansion and contraction than too little.

I'm slipping on my flame suit here but I've never seen any kind of a real correlation between expansion and the health of a foot and anacdotally I'd say that what I've seen almost indicates the oposite. Like every one else I've always heard the "no nails behind the widest part of the hoof" thing and I'm still not sure that I even buy that...especially when I can bend the nails in my hands. but on to the point...and ducking as I go.

Foror more speculation without data...if the laminae holds P3 to the wall then it also holds the wall to P3...yes? When it begins to fail P3 isn't held as securely and neither is the wall. Maybe excessive expansion and contraction is part of the problem when this happens and just encourages more laminae damage. Maybe the plate replaces some of that lost strength. While the plate might increase regidity, it's not going to be perfectly rigid either especially at the heel. This is, of course, pure speculation and right off the top of my head at that.

[Ronald Aalders]

Hi Mike,

I too was never convinced about the necessity of heel expansion. I already made some remarks on this in another thread (Laminitis and derotation revisited).

In short I feel that the construction of the foot tells us that heel expansion is not the primary action when the foot is loaded it's secondary to the concave sole flattening and because of that taking up more space. (A flat sole is wider then a concave one). The frog acts as a buffer absorbing the movements of the sole flattening and returning to its more concave shape.

The heels expand much more than the toe does because of the shape of the foot. The halfround shape of the toe does not allow for much expansion there but the heels are much easier pushed aside. But again this is just a "side effect" and I would not hesitate to take it a step further, limiting heel expansion may even allow a more efficient functioning of the foot. Facilitating heel expansion (e.g. slippered heels) will ruin those same heels on non contracted horses.



Ronald Aalders

[Dave Purves]

Hey Ron just a little devils advocate here, but did you ever stop to think that the sole of the foot could not "flatten" out if the heels didn't expand? I don't think you can say that one of those actions is primary to the other, they go hand in hand. If the heels cannot expand then the sole has no place to go, allowing no shock absorbtion through the foot. You loose frog support as the frog cannot drop down along with the sole to bear weight.
Dave Purves CF

[Ronald Aalders]

Hi Dave,


In my little theory (for all its worth) the frog's flexible texture allows flattening of the sole. When the sole flattens the frog gets squeezed, when the foot is picked up, the frog expands. It can because the sole returns to its more concave shape.

Obviously the pressure needed to "squeeze" a strong healthy frog may well be high enough to cause to heels to expand too. But IMHO that expansion is just secondary to the actual way the foot is designed to expand and contract when loaded. Maybe the heel expansion even reduces the squeezing of the frog effect reducing "pump" effiency in the process.

But since this is something I thought of myself a long time ago, I have no way of proving it. Its just that it would make so much more sense than the simple expansion of heels.


Ronald Aalders

[Phil Armitage]

Here are a couple of scenarios to go along with this thread that I wonder about a lot. The point Patty made about weakness in the caudle aspect of the hoof, causeing reverse rotation I see this in some Warm bloods, I have seen a warmblood that foundered, with these type of feet and she was a sinker even with huge fat frogs, unfortunately she had to be put down. On the other hand I have seen Morgans with very rigid hoof, very concaved sole barely any frog at all founder and they rotated and survived to go back to work. Anyone else notice this and why do you think this happens? In my area Morgans are a common breed and most of them have deep feet barely any frog support and do fine, the only thing I can attribute to there soundness is there very rigid hoof wall and I notice there is hardly any wear in the heel of the shoes on the foot side like some wider feet do from expansion and contration. This kind of goes against some ideas we have about the feet. So like others I do not buy into many thoughts and ideas either and realise we have much more to learn and understand.

[Mike Ferrara]

Hi Dave,


In my little theory (for all its worth) the frog's flexible texture allows flattening of the sole. When the sole flattens the frog gets squeezed, when the foot is picked up, the frog expands. It can because the sole returns to its more concave shape.

Obviously the pressure needed to "squeeze" a strong healthy frog may well be high enough to cause to heels to expand too. But IMHO that expansion is just secondary to the actual way the foot is designed to expand and contract when loaded. Maybe the heel expansion even reduces the squeezing of the frog effect reducing "pump" effiency in the process.

But since this is something I thought of myself a long time ago, I have no way of proving it. Its just that it would make so much more sense than the simple expansion of heels.


Ronald Aalders

I tend to agree.

It looks to me...and I'm a farrier and engineer of course and not a physiologist or vet med researcher...I would think that expansion of the hoof capsul would actually reduce the foots ability to pump blood. Look at it like any other pump for a minute. In a flexible container, as the volume increases )flexing) the internal pressure decreases...and the increased pressure of weight bearing is what causes the pressure increase in the first place (at least on the venus side).

Again just looking at things from a structural aspect would it be desireable for the wall to expand allowing P3 to drop or to give the wall the support it may be lacking possibly reducing further stress on lamina caused by a flexing horn?

And again, a piece of sheet metal in the shape of a hoof will not be completely rigid.

Well that's my 2 cents and I can't prove a thing.

[Scott Kester]

Along the lines of hoof expansion and blood flow, in remembering some of Dr. Bowker's research (and Patty please correct me if if I'm mistaken), his theory of hemodynamics indicates blood is actually drawn in as weight is placed on the foot and as weight is removed, blood flows back out. With this model, it would seem that hoof expansion would promote blood entering the hoof capsule because of the negative pressures being created. Hoof expansion may not be desireable in certain early stages of laminitis but may be desireable once healing is under way?