Hoof balance or gene pool cull?

[Forgewizard]

Ok this little guy is 3 wks old at time of photo. Mare is post parturition laminitic and currently Stall bound. Stable mgr reports their vet X-rayed the foal's knees then reported to them the best thing to do was wait until foal is 3 to 6 months old - knees may correct themselves in the meantime. she said the vet hospital requires more than 20° deviation and the bones of the knees haven't calcified yet anyway.

To which I replied the knee bones aren't calcified or fully formed until the horse is 2 yrs old; if we are going to help we need to do it soon! because as his body weight increases so will the strain on the joint.

Seems to me there is definitely sufficient deviation to warrant more than just glue on baby shoes (which are being delivered tomorrow).

How would, or have any of you had to, convince a vet to be more aggressive in their approach? This vet is recently graduated from school, so I am certain she hasn't much hands on experience in this sort of thing.

Sorry for the poor quality photo. A jack *** (literally) broke my real Camero so I had to use my phone Camera.

[Red Amor]

Another Vet maybe Mate ay?

[Dianne Lemmon]

[QUOTE=Forgewizard]Ok this little guy is 3 wks old at time of photo. Mare is post parturition laminitic and currently Stall bound. Stable mgr reports their vet X-rayed the foal's knees then reported to them the best thing to do was wait until foal is 3 to 6 months old - knees may correct themselves in the meantime. she said the vet hospital requires more than 20° deviation and the bones of the knees haven't calcified yet anyway.

To which I replied the knee bones aren't calcified or fully formed until the horse is 2 yrs old; if we are going to help we need to do it soon! because as his body weight increases so will the strain on the joint.

Seems to me there is definitely sufficient deviation to warrant more than just glue on baby shoes (which are being delivered tomorrow).

How would, or have any of you had to, convince a vet to be more aggressive in their approach? This vet is recently graduated from school, so I am certain she hasn't much hands on experience in this sort of thing.


Kim,

I would suggest a very tactful manner that it is sometimes prudent to seek a second opinion. Put a "bug" in the owner's head. This is a very difficult situation and should probably put under the "Vet and Farrier" relationship thread.
Is the owner satified with the Vet's suggestions? If they are, this is even more difficult.

Dianne

[Greg Thomas]

Looks to me like cardboard and duct tape splints couldn't hurt.

Greg

[Rick Burten]

Kim,

On the few occasions when I have had to use them, the Baby-Glu's have worked really well for me. And a coup of the foals I used them on, looked as bad as this one.

That said, I agree with everyone else that a second opinion is in order. Perhaps you can couch it to the owner in terms of "this is something that a very experienced orthopaedic veterinarian should be involved with. I'm not trying to say that your vet is not qualified, but there are instances when specialists need to be involved. this is one of those instances......"

And, I think I'd put my suggestion/recommendation(s) in writing.

Also, even though the mare is lamminitic, you need to insist that she and the baby get outside. What is the hoofcare protocol for the mare? You may have to get aggressive with it so that this may is able to at least move around outside, to some degree. Approach it with the owner from the standpoint of it is good for the mare and absolutely essential for the foal.

[Forgewizard]

Yep,

I did suggest that knowing their vet is newly graduated, she may not have run into this situation and I gave them the name of a local (Ocala) vet that specializes in lameness issues and has given our state farrier assoc. wonderful clinics on foal leg deformities. Unfortunately, I got the impression that while they appreciated the extraneous info, they'll follow the guidelines of their current vet regarding any splinting, or possible sugery. ALthough since I just about pleaded with them to at least try the glue ons, they seem amenable to at least that much help!

The shoes were delivered today, so I'll make a hole in my prescheduled appointments and get them applied asap this week.

Rick, when you applied the baby cuffs, did you put any wedges (placed L/M as opposed to A/P) inside the baby shoes? I'm wondering if applying wedges inside the shoes or on the ground surface of the shoes would offer any advantage when combined with the medial extensions? Maybe screwng n the wedges, so they can be removed as the foal grows or straightens?

Several years ago I did some follow up care on a foal that had a similar problem. Their vet applied the glue on extensions and basically his prescription was to leave them on until they fell off! Which turned out to be almost 3 months later! The foals knees were helped immensely, and several follow up trims later the hooves had a normal appearance too. I can't remember if there were any wedges involved in that case.

Regards,
Kim

[Rick Burten]

Rick, when you applied the baby cuffs, did you put any wedges (placed L/M as opposed to A/P) inside the baby shoes?
No.
I'm wondering if applying wedges inside the shoes or on the ground surface of the shoes would offer any advantage when combined with the medial extensions? Maybe screwng n the wedges, so they can be removed as the foal grows or straightens?
You might want to give Ric Redden a call and discuss it with him.
Several years ago I did some follow up care on a foal that had a similar problem. Their vet applied the glue on extensions and basically his prescription was to leave them on until they fell off! Which turned out to be almost 3 months later!
That was *****ic advise. Dr. Redden has a very specific schedule for the application and removal of those baby cuffs. The instructions come with the kit and should be strictly adhered to. Those baby feet are growing so fast and are so malleable that leaving the cuffs in place longer that what is recommended, is an invitation to a later disaster.

[John Emsley]

This certainly is an extreme case, but the main point in any early foal development is exercise. The mother being stalled has to be addressed if any corrective work on the foal is to be successful. A mud ring, a muzzle for Mom, anything in order for the little guy to be able to stretch his legs and widen his chest. Even then I wouldn't prepay his entry for halter classes. There have been times when I have tried to suggest that maybe the mare or stallion had certain conformation faults that would be better left with them. It hasn't been well received. :cool:

[Forgewizard]

Well,

The shoes have been delivered and the mgr notified. Now waiting on an application date! I got the Ibex baby shoes which have extensions all around, just cut off the ones not needed and glue 'em on! The vettec superfast sets up quicker than the Equilox.

I checked out Rick Redden's time line suggestions and must say, I was surprised to see him recommend the shoes come off so quickly and then wait several days to reevaluate and reapply if necessary.

I agree that the one vet's idea for that one colt; of gluing them on and just leaving them on was on the far end of excessive (and the owner taking that vet's prescription to heart for the next three months), but I wonder how much change is going to happen in the short time frame R. Redden suggests? I was planning on applying them for at 4 weeks, before removal.

I've used them for lax tendons on foals and the 4 week interval seemed to work well, with no problems seen in the baby's hooves.

Lax tendons of course aren't the same as such severe joint issues, so maybe that's the difference here?

There's a farrier clinic tomorrow in Ocala, so I'll pick some brains there.
Regards,
Kim