Very hard sole!

[HOSSBOSS]

Hope this Isn't a silly question! I'v been trying to make a Horse comfortable that had resently foundered. After the vet & I looked at the xray's we had decided to apply Myron Mclane pads with eggbar's. This vet Insisted on that he be shod this way!! But It only made the Horse more uncomfortable & he did alot better without them. So now he Is barefoot & had been doing ok. Wen't back to trim him again & left plenty of sole Intact. After this trim he came up lame again on both front feet with no heat. I didn't trim him short, but his sole's are as hard as rock's. My question Is why do their sole's become so rock hard? Is It from all the stress going on Inside the foot? What would make him more comfortable? It's hard to shoe them when their In so much pain! This vet doesn't like sadation ether. Any Info?

[Leslie Reinke]

I am just guessing as I do not have pictures or a lot of info. Is your horses environment dry? A dry environment will cause the hooves and soles to harden. Maybe your horse has a retained sole. When the soles are hard it takes more effort to remove a retained sole.

As for your horse being uncomfortable he may be having a laminitic episode. A horse with laminitis does not always have heat in the foot, and can be sore barefoot or shod. Shoes are used as a support measure. Personally, (since your vet suggested it), I would put the shoes back on. Have current x-rays, and have your farrier shoe off of them.

[Ronald Aalders]

Why the soles get hard has a lot to do with the ground or bedding of the horse. Also because of the laminitic attack the bloodflow in the foot usually gets comprimised. This has a big effect on sole quality.

The reason the horse is sore after trimming may well be the way you trimmed it. We're not talking too long or too short here it's more a matter of trimming so the damaged structures inside the foot get a chance to heal.

When the coffin bones of the horse rotate, P3 rotates forward. The tip goes down, the wings go up. The tip going down means more pressure because the tip will squeeze out anything that's between it and the sole. Look at the rad I posted here. Do you see how the tip of P3 pushes down on the inside of the sole here? This obviously is a big time and life threatening rotation but milder cases will be painfull too!

When trimming be sure about the position of P3! Yes you need X rays to establish the position of P3 within the hoofcapsule. If P3 rotated even a little bit, do not even touch the toe! Just lower the heels, starting a little behind the tip of the frog. Do not trim the anterior (front) part of the foot at all.

When you lowered the heels correctly you will have reduced the pinching effect of the tip of P3 on the tissue between it and the horny sole. This will reduce pain if and when you combined this with reduction of deep flexor tendon pull.

To reduce the pull of the deep flexor tendon, rasp the toe in a 45 degree angle. An agressive 'mustang roll' is what you are looking for to ease breakover as much as you can without shoes. Be sure not to weaken the foot here.

Shoeing the horse makes things a lot easier. After derotation (lowering of the heels -preferably checked with X rays-) use wedges to reduce DDFT pull. Also bring back breakover with a shoe that has a square toe or other breakover reducing feature. Be sure to bring back breakover A LOT. Don't worry, it's hard to overdo that!

The approach to shoeing laminitic horses is one of three steps. 1. Be sure P3 has a normal position within the hoofcapsule. 2. Reduce the pulling force of the deep flexor tendon by using wedges and reducing breakover 3. Provide adequate support to the sole.

As far as sole support is concerned, I don't see a reason for egg bar type of pad here. But a pad offering adequate support to the sole is vital! If the vet insists on the Myron Mclane pads, fine, use those. I would add a pour-in hoofpacking here like Vettec's Hoofpack clear (the blue tube).

If you have any questions, post them! That's why this board became popular!


Ronald Aalders

[vthorseshoe]

Hi Ron;

I took in a foundered pony stallion (miniature) 2 yrs ago. He couldn't walk 3 ft, he was so sore.
I trimmed him, little by little and gradually brought him back to a running and kicking little man.(same trim you advocated in previous post)


Every spring he is usually lame, and now we are in a terrible wet season he is lame again.

This year I actually made a miniature heart bar shoe and put it on him.

It has taken a few days but he is venturing out into the pasture and this morning climbed the hill to come up for a treat.

His sole gets very hard. The only soft spot is 1 finger width in front of the apex of the frog. (rt fnt)
He is an old man now and I have kept him going for longer than he would have where he was, but My wife and I know down the road we will be putting him down.
Our pasture is a cross between wet and dry. We have a ton of springs and a culvert that comes under the road to allow even more water from springs on the hillside of the road.
You would think his sole would be mushy but it isn't.
(I actually had an excavator come in and dig divets throughout the pasture to divert the flow of the water through the pasture and into the woods.)


Bruce

[George Geist]

I wont get into the founder part I think Ron covered that very well but on the issue of hard soles, it is in most cases environmental.

I know I'm in a very small minority but my favorite bedding is still straw. Pine shavings contain turpentine which hardens the soles. A growing # of people are using this new type of bedding which looks like cat litter. This stuff absorbs so much I think it can suck the rain out of the sky. Owners love it but it makes the feet like rocks.

Trying to cut soles like that with a hoof knife is an excercise in futility. Different types of sole knives are available but I think a half-round nipper works best. Understand this is for healthy hooves, with founder as your talking about I try not to mess with the soles unless really necessary.

Some horses also will just be drier in the feet than others due to their being individuals. Just like people have different types of hair etc. This is easily dealt with if just environmental.
George

[JMPalmer]

Every spring he is usually lame, and now we are in a terrible wet season he is lame again.<<

Chronic founders need to be kept off spring grass and be fed a diet as low in carbs as possible. This means no grain, no senior feeds, no treats, including apples and carrots. Almost all pony breeds are insulin resistant which makes them very prone to laminitis. Go to www.safergrass.org for more infomation.

An elderly horse should also be tested for Equine Cushings disease and treated if positive. If it were my horse, I would also be very concerned about that soft spot a finger's width in front of the frog. Radiographs should be takesn ASAP. He could be close to penetration.


To the original poster: It is not uncommon for a horse who has suffered a laminitic insult to abscess a few weeks after the initial episode. There may not be noticable heat. Then too, if the cause of the problem has not been addressed and corrected nothing you do with trims and/or shoes will fix it.

BTW, my own chronicly foundered mare was made very uncomfortable with those Myron McLane pads. Too much frog pressure is my guess. I fully agree with Ron's suggestions on shoeing except for the automatic wedge. IMO, the horse should only be wedged if he is landing toe first after the trim.

The WHOLE caudal portion of the foot, not just the frog, should be used to relieve any pressure on the toe area. This includes application of impression material from the frog apex on back. The easiest way I've found to achieve full support, enhanced breakover and flexibliity with wedging is with the the Equine Digital Support System (EDSS). Go to www.hopeforsoundness.com for more information if you are unfamiliar with it.


Jan

[vthorseshoe]

Jan I agree with you and have considered all you mention, but as in all cases you have to put everything on a scale and weigh out the choices.

1rst this is an old miniature pony. Cushings he doesn't have.
Spring grass is probably right on, but pony has been foundered for yrs prior to me taking him and giving him a good home.
Before I took him he was trimmed once a yr.

The soft spot before the apex of the frog , I have also considered probability of penetration .
(When he is put down I am going to most likely save his foot for stripping to the bones and see what he had suffered inside from a lifetime of soreness.)
Vet x-rays etc. not in this case. This pony has had another good 2 yrs of quality of life and I will be putting him down when time comes.
He is out walking much better since heart bar went on and he is doing well.

Putting on soft pad or any form of packing with a pad wouldn't stay because of wetness of pasture, plus it would get so much moisture under the foot it would do more harm than good if it did stay adhered. Vettec won't stick to water.
I don't have stalls for this pony he has a run in, with his compadre. I did fence it off so he would stay more confined until I shod him, but now he is out roaming.

[Gary Pfeiffer]

Hossboss,
One thing no one here answered was the fact that the vet doe's not like tranqing this horse for you, and he is hard to shoe while in such pain.
If the horse will not stand for you to shoe safely, I would insist that the owner call another vet to Tranq. this horse while you are working on it.
You cannot do as good of a job as you would like to because you know that the longer you are under this horse you are in more and more danger of getting hurt.
We cannot blame the horse. He is in a great deal of pain, but your safety should come into play here too.
Tranqing this horse would
1. Avoid instilling in this horses mind that "Shoeing means pain.
2. Make the horse more comfortable for this job that takes longer than most.
3. Allow you to do the best job for this animal.
4. Give you the piece of mind that you are working on a safe animal.
5. Keep you from drooling on yourself in a wheelchair and out of adult diapers.

Gary