Can anyone with hoof boot experiece walk me through getting boots that will fit?

[trailhorse]

Hi all,

This may not be the best place to post this question, lol, but I haven't found a more active message board than this one at the moment.

Is there anyone out there that can walk me through getting hoof boots that will most likely fit and work well on my horse? I am sort of leaning toward Easyboot Epics because I have heard the most good and least negative about them, but if anyone with experience in other boots that has worked well for them, I would be happy to hear about it. I sort of have this fear that I will invest $135 in boots that won't fit properly and I won't be able to return them. I have been to Easycare's site and took measurements and my horse would take a size 1 on both front feet, although one foot barely measures a 1 and the other is on the larger scale of a 1. How much room for growth is there in an Easyboot? If the horse's feet grow out or decontract and get wider, will a 1 still fit? What if I use the foam insoles as recommended by Pete Ramey? Will the 1's still fit or will I need a size 2? If I buy 2's right now they might be to big? Any advice from anyone who has used Easyboots or any other hoof boots would be most welcome.
Kim
PS. Note to Rick B., I still may re-shoe the horse, but am exploring all my options. :)

[Dances with Hooves]

Pete talks about the importance of having boots fitted by a boot fitter for them to work well. Reminds me of dowhill ski boots. Off the shelf ski boots are agony and if you go to a good ski shop they have sent some of the staff to boot fitting courses or had the manufacturers come to the shop and teach the tecniques of using heat guns and other tools to move the plastic around. I know folks who drive from all over to vermont to this one shop that has the best ski boot fitters.

Thinking well I'm an open minded guy might make sense to know a bit about boot fitting. So......... I call easycare as pete likes their easyboot bare and epic and they don't have a clue about a course they are not even aware that boot fitting is happening anywhere. Then sent some emails to pete asking hey how do you learn to fit boots. His staff replys that they don't know.

So according to pete ramey off the shelf boots don't fit, boot fitting is critical, the easycare companys easyboot epic and bare are the best but if you want to find a fitter for them there aint none and there is no means available for hoofcare providers to go to a class on the subject.

Jamie jackson does teach a class on fitting the swiss boot for which he also is the importer and wholesaler and I have seen no one other than him recommend this boot.

I find this whole situation vastly annoying.

[joan cameron]

Hi Trailhorse, you need to follow the directions on the easyboot web site to the tee!! I believe you can return the boots...you need to cover the horses foot with a plastic bag and have him stand on a towel. You will know by putting the boots on and off wether they fit or not. I've used the boas and I just got a pair of bares. The boas go on and off pretty easy, my horse falls in between a 2 and a 3...the 2's fit for a bit right after he's trimmed, but then get to small. The 3's will do, but are a little loose, I add inside pad to help, and the gaiters. I didn't get the epics because I feared the clamp lever...I could see it getting caught on something and getting flipped up. We ride through some pretty ucky stuff. The bares are a bit tricky at first to get on and off...it takes a little practice, but once you get use to it they're not bad. I like the weight and fit of them the best. However, I didn't measure exactly and their a tad big...one has come off once in deep mud...next time I'll have to try a 2 instead of a 3. Also, if you wind up with a pair you don't use, just list them on ebay...they'll sell. So don't worry about getting stuck.

[trailhorse]

Thanks Guys/Gals. I know Pete stresses custom fitting, but that doesn't seem to be an option where I am at nor do I want to go to great lengths to find a "fitter." I think (read hope!) that if I get the right size they might fit, at least on the Easyboots. I think the Swiss Horse Boots are a hard plastic type material, at least that is what they look like, I have never seen one in person, so I can see where they might have to be heated to fit. The Easyboots seem to be a softer material so they should snug down good over the hoof wall (I hope). George, I can see why you would find the situation annoying, especially as a farrier. :( I think (hope) the Easyboots are made to adjust to fit most normal hoof proportions, at least I read that on their website.

Joan, I read somewhere on Easycare's site that there is a cotter pin (on the newer boots) that will lock that lever on the boot in place and keep it from flipping up. I am sort of afraid to try the bares because they say they are harder to get on and this will be my first experiece with hoof boots so I want something I am able to get on. I talked to a neighbor who deals in used tack and she says she has a couple of easyboots somewhere but doesn't know the size. I imagine they must be the older ones, less the gaiter, but if I could at least try on a used one then I would know how they work and if they would fit. Then I can try getting a pair if they show promise.

Joan, I wonder if I will have the problem you have- that if the horse's foot grows out and/or spreads then he will need the next size up. I also want to do the foam inserts because Pete Ramey says they do better with them, but I'm not sure if that will mean I need a bigger size. Right now my horse would take a 1 Easyboot.

So overall, if you had to buy boots again, would you choose the Easyboot Bares, or try something else? Do you use boots on all 4 feet or just the fronts?

[Forgewizard]

Trailhorse,

Measure your horse's hooves in the middle of the trimming interval. Get the boot that fits the closest. Getting a boot a size larger will NOT give your horse confidence in his footing because his hooves will slop around inside the boots!

This fitting issue is exactly the drawback to boots vs. shoes. but close enough can work.

Don't be put off by the clamp. If you have it adjusted right it won't come undone. But the lock pin is a good insurance. The gaiters they offer help and the keeper straps too.

I've ridden innumerable miles in easyboots and only lost two over the course of several years. One is in a mangrove swamp we had to cross. And the other is in a Florida forest somewhere when we were on an Endurance run. (both times were before I got smart about using keeper straps).

She's pulled her wagon using the easyboots and done many parades.

I am only familiar with the older style Easyboot but the epics look like a slightly better design than the old ones. If you are planning long rides don't bother with the Boas- or Old MAcs as they come up over the hairline and WILL scrub your horse raw!

The tiny bit of scuffing or dig marks from the interior metal teeth is NOT a problem for your horse, and apparently now they offer little rubber covers for the teeth.

The hooves WILL need to be trimmed regularly and often to maintian the proper best fit of the boot.

Drilling large diameter holes in the soles of the boots will allow water to drain out. You can grind a bit of a rolled toe on them also - but keep in mind that the boots do weigh more than a shoe and add considerable length and cir***ferance to the hoof - this will change the swing phase of his stride, possibley cause interference and will add to the fatigue factor if you are doing endurance.

Hope this helps!
Regards,
Kim

[trailhorse]

Thanks Forgewizard, that was very helpful. Especially about the Old Mac's/Boas scrubbing. I had heard a bit about that, but never that they WOULD scrub, just that they COULD. Since you feel strongly that they will, then that helps make my decision about going with the Easyboots in one form or another. I really think the gaiter on the Epics is probably a good idea, although those cost about twice as much as a regular easyboot. So if I have to buy them new I will fork out the extra $$$ and get either the Epics or the Bares with the gaiter. If I can get regular Easyboots cheap (used) to try out then I will go that route at least to see if I like them.

I am rather neurotic about tweaking their feet, so regular maintance won't be a problem. As a matter of fact, I have to make myself leave them alone! That's one thing I didn't realize about going barefoot. In manys it is more work instead of less! Before I would shoe and wait at least 6 weeks before redoing them. Now I trim, the next day see a slight flare or unbalance that I didn't notice the day before and have to tweek it. Like I said, I have to make myself leave the feet alone! :o

Water isn't a problem where I normally ride, nor is mud. And if it is muddy then the ground is soft and they won't need the boots. It's the hard, gravel roads that give them trouble and make me feel like a bad mother. It seems like just when the dirt roads get horse-friendly is when someone goes and dumps more gravel on them! :eek: The horse I need them the most for is 26 so he won't be doing endurance, and even my younger one I just trail ride, although I like to run him a bit when the footing is good. :)

So can I get away with just Easyboots on the fronts, or will the horse need them all the way around just so his feet are the same length/weight?

Thanks again for the very helpful post. :D

[Forgewizard]

Well, my take on boots or shoes all 4 or not is the same-All 4! Because your horse's engine is in back, his hind feet have to propel you both forward AND support his and your weight, also -wherever the front feet travel, the hind feet do too! You'll find your horse can move best when all hooves are equally protected. Often some owners are pleasantly surprised when their horse suddenly steps out boldly and moves livelier after his hind feet have been bolstered!

Guess I'll visit Easy care's site again-sounds like they have more stuff to look at!

Regards,
Kim

[belhaven]

My boot experiences.

As suggested go to the Easy Care site and really pay attention to the landmarks for measuring.

I used millimeters to measure instead of inches to be very accurate. I think this helped alot.

The older version of OM's work great on round feet-the newer ones are more oval shaped.

With the pastern wraps I have never had rubbing.

The Epics look to be for more oval feet but for some reason in the construction they have worked well on both shapes for me.

The Boas are just not my style-too clunky and I could not get a good fit even with the pastern wraps-though I have friends that LOVE them.

Unfortunately sometimes it might take some trial and error-the different boots will just fit better on different feet.

I personally prefer the fit of the OMs but the Epics have a lighter feel.

If you choose to go with Epics there are some easy modifications you can make so they are easier to get on and no risk of dig marks from the inside cleats.

I have mashed down the cleats and competely removed the back strap and they are still secure and no rubs.

Also they now make pad inserts that will help if a boot is a bit loose and I think they make some sort of shims as well...

If you are at all unsure see if you can take a hoof tracing and fax it to Epic for their help.

[HoustonFarrier]

I have had (good) personal experience with the HorseSneakers made by Frank Ozra. I have a section on my website detailing how to make molds. I had a Belgian in them, and a paint mare. They both did well, but the Belgians boots were tough to get on and off. Frank has since made some changes that make his boots easier to get on and off.

Steve

[joan cameron]

The boa's do indeed go up higher,but with the gaiters there is no issue with rubbing. I did not like the Old Mac's at all....way to clunky, very forward toe for breakover, although the gen 2's they have modified a bit there. I also don't like the pastern strap.
I like the bares, I think forgewizard gives some great advice about measuring mid-cycle and filing for breakover at the toe. My trimmer uses the epics with the gators and likes those the best. He cut out the strap and folded over the cleats, but the new ones have the rubber covers. I didn't know they had the pin...that's a good thing. But the clamping pressure action still bothers me.
You have to be committed, the boots can be a pain at times. My boy has forged a couple of times and pulled a boot off his front (I only use boots on front, he's barefoot behind and seems to do okay.) I personally like the system of keeping the bare boot on..there's more flexibility and give and I also like the tread on the bottom which mimics a hoof. The boa's tread is more like indented tiny slots and they can be slippery on mud.
I think it's a personal thing and you may have to figure it out by trial and error. Good Luck!!

[trailhorse]

Thanks to all who have replied. You've given me lots of things to consider. :)

Joan, you've got me taking a second look at the bares. I never really gave them much thought to begin with, I guess because they are new. But I like the idea that they are flexible and sort of form fit to the hoof, whereas the regular easyboots are more stiff.

Do you find them durable? Do you think they will hold up to rocks and still give the horse's feet good protection? Do you think the bungee will last?

I'm not asking for exact awnsers because I know they are new to you too, but I am intrigued. Maybe I should try the bares. My main concern is if they are durable. I like the close fitting design- it doesn't seem like they should be clunking around much.
Kim

PS. "My boy has forged a couple of times and pulled a boot off his front..."

This happens with metal shoes too, and that's a real bummer when you are out on the trail! I worry more about the horses falling then the boot or shoe flying off, but it can happen no matter what type of shoe you use so that factor is sort of a wash. Actually, the boot might be better in that regard because you can put it back on. :D

[Hoof "N" It BF]

I was just at Pete Ramey’s Hoof rehabilitation clinic and we did go thru a couple of hours of boot fitting and the dynamics of it all and covered just about all the boots out there, and so far the best boots are the easy boot epics, but make sure you get a newer pair as the built in gaiter has improved from the original design, its more durable. And the easiest to fit, I personally have tried Old Macs and Boas, I have had trouble with both, in the rubbing area and the sand and debris getting in the boot and pushing the hoof up. But in the rubbing area you can make a vet rap sock and that helps. If you want I can walk you through the boot fitting process, for a really good fit. Measurements off the box are basically 2 dimensional and the horse’s hoof is 3 dimensional... Let me know I will be more than happy to help with you, I am a professional hoof care provider, And if done right you will have amazing results..
Take care :)

[trailhorse]

Hi Hoof "N" It BF! Thanks for the post! I just bought a pair of Easyboot Epics, so I'm glad to hear they are a good choice! I ordered them through Easy Care, so hopefully they are the newer version you spoke of.

I actually ordered a 1 and a 2, since one of my horses front feet measured into a 1, and the other a 2, and I found that the 2 seems to fit both feet best, so I returned the size 1 and Easy Care is suposed to be sending me out another two so I will have a pair!

I think the reason the 1 didn't fit is because his heels are still long and the bulbs are higher off the ground than the boot is designed for, because although I could get the size 1 on (barely) the gaiter didn't want to fit well over his heel bulbs. I have taken the heels down since he initially went barefoot and I am afraid to take them down more because lowering the heels even a tad seemed to make him stub his toes, and in response I put a rocker on the toes, but the horse is sore ridden on any type of rocky or hard surface, which is really common anywhere in Arizona, lol!

So my second size 2 will be here tomorrow and I look forward to trying them out! I am holding high hopes that the horse will do well as he used to go good with shoes and pads. He is one of those stock horses that grows very upright feet and I never took much heel off because I thought it was a good thing to have the quicker breakover. :(

I would love to correspond with you on feet if you have the time and I can even get digital photos to help clarify.

I have Pete Ramey/Jaime Jackson's books and feel comfortable trimming, but every little fault in the horse's gait I am always wondering if it is something I am doing wrong, know what I mean? I have 3 horses, 1 has been barefoot for years and is sound in rocks, although before I knew better I let his feet flare and never rolled the edges so I am getting them back into shape. The other is a former BLM horse who seems to be doing fairly well barefoot, although he has a funny thing he does with his hind end from time to time. I would love to elaborate on that and get your opinion. His hind end sometimes seems to dip out from under him, or else his hind feet slide or maybe even knuckle over? (It's hard to know what is going on when you are sitting on top of them). He did that even with shoes and a friend whom I ride with tells me that whenever he does it, it is usually something with the footing, either rocky or soft, etc. But it seems to me that he does it more than a horse should. And then my third horse, which I bought the Epics for, is a 26 year old Paint. Tender with shoes, more tender without! :eek:
Kim
PS. Also bought the comfort pads, but as his foot is almost too tall for the boot now, I think that adding the pads might make the fit worse. I really planned to use them though, after reading Pete's article on boots and pads. If you don't mind emailing me, I can send you photos to see what you think. I really can't take down more hoof on this horse without getting into live sole.
I think his feet measured about 3 3/4 inches at the toe, but he has a lot of heel too, which effects the fit of the boot.

I would like to send you my email address somehow, but really don't want to post it for the entire world to see?!? Let me see if I can figure out how to send you a private message, or if you know how to do that please feel free to do the same. I know I have gotten messages from individuals on here before, but am fairly new to the board myself.

[Phil Armitage]

Sounds like a good market for a farrier. Custom made boots.

[trailhorse]

Sounds like a good market for a farrier. Custom made boots.

Could be! I certainly think there is room for improvement in hoof boots. All seem to have their strengths and weaknesses.

Hey, I noticed the title of the board changed to "Farriers Helping Horse Owners Interested In Maintaining Their Horses Barefoot As Much as Possible." I think that is an improvement. The term "only" seems to make people defensive.

Kim

[ElvisEagle]

I have been Using old macs at the recommendation of my farrier, along with pastern wraps. I have used them on long trail rides. They have helped to reshape my horses hooves. Along with trimming his feet longer, using Farriers formula supplement (less than what it says on back of container) and using these boots, my horses feet have never been better. I love the boots.

[koty91tx]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forums and found this one very interesting since I am in the process, also, of buying boots for my horse. I have discovered there is a new boot on the market from the company that makes Old Macs. It is called the Simple Boot and looks like it has great potential for horse owners that can't use the other boots on the market for various reasons (like straps cutting into heal bulbs, etc). There is also a pastern wrap available if rubbing is a concern. A pair sells for $99.95 and the pastern wraps are $14.95. If anyone is interested, their website is:
http://www.cavallo-inc.com/horseboots.html


I recently moved to the Weatherford, TX area and am desperately looking for a farrier who specializes in barefoot trims. My horse has been barefoot for a year, but I have some issues that need addressing before they become major problems. Any info appreciated. Thanks. :)

[kanderso]

....I didn't get the epics because I feared the clamp lever...I could see it getting caught on something and getting flipped up.

The lever does flip up on some horses, and the boots generally stay on anyway. If we're fairly close to home, or planning to stop soon, we'll just leave the clamp flipped up.

We generally do stop and clamp it down if we're planning to do a lot of faster riding, but if we're just walking and trotting it doesn't seem to matter all that much.

Kris

[kanderso]

Sounds like a good market for a farrier. Custom made boots.

I wish the manufacturers of EZBoots would make some that fit mules better. I suppose there isn't enough demand, but I'd buy them if they'd make some narrower ones that would stay on a mule better.

Kris

[FrogInABlender]

Hi Trail horse! I just lurk here from time to time, but I saw this thread and thought I'd share my experience with the Easyboot Bare's. I was really skeptical about them at first because I bought some of the original Easyboots years ago and at any gait other than a flat walk they wouldn't stay on for anything and weren't worth the effort that it took to throw them away. But I went ahead and I bought a set for my TWH filly back in May and I love them. Her feet are all size 00 so I bought 4 of those, but now I just use them on the fronts because she does fine without them on the backs, plus with all 4 of them on, she tended to want to pace. I guess they were too heavy on the back. They fit fine right out of the box but I did drill bigger drain holes in the bottoms because there's a lot of mud and creek crossings where I ride. I've been amazed at how well they stay on in deep, sucking mud. They're really nice on rock outcroppings and pavement too as they give much better traction. They are a bit of a bear to get on when they are new, but if you train the gaitors to lay back, it gets easier. You do have to keep the feet trimmed regularly to keep them in good fit, but I do that every other week anyways so it's not a problem. Here's a pic of my filly in her Bares when I first got them...

http://images1.snapfish.com/3478%3A8754%7Ffp33%3B%3Enu%3D3245%3E%3A%3C4%3E964% 3EWSNRCG%3D32337489%3A2457nu0mrj


And here they are after we went mud riding in them...
http://images1.snapfish.com/3478%3A8754%7Ffp33%3B%3Enu%3D3245%3E%3A%3C4%3E964% 3EWSNRCG%3D32337489%3A387%3Anu0mrj
So far, so good!


Good luck with your Epics!

[wrightdanes]

I had a fitter come out. We tried the easyboot bares - WAY too difficult to get on. The G2 old macs are a breeze. We went up to our hocks in mud and they had no issues. Four miles of trials and no rubs and I didn't use the covers that came with them. Very pleased - they drain super fast too.