Tip Farrier? Draft Tools, Stocks.

[Bigfoot10]

Hi all,
How much do y'all tip your farrier for trims? Is it same amount per visit, regardless of how many horses he trims, or per horse, % of total bill etc?

I've been having a hard time finding or keeping a decent farrier. I'm out in the boonies so that doesn't help, own drafts (some reason farriers seem to dread doing drafts) even though they are good & quiet. So I need to make every effort to sweeten the pot so they want to come out. I'm wondering if my tipping is off kilter.

I'm going to try buy my own tools too. Figured having Draft size tools on hand may also help persuade them to come on by. Any one know of a good source for Draft Size tools?

I also thought about building shoeing stocks, but I've heard regular, non draft farriers, would have a hard time getting used to using them. Anyone know if that's true? Don't want to waste my time & resources building something that's going to go to be of any use.

Thanks,
Bigfoot10

[Dances with Hooves]

Tipping is not necessary (when I get tipped I don't turn it down :) but I have many draft customers who do not tip.

Stocks are not a cure all. The horses need to be trained to enter them and cooperate in the hoisting of the feet. One of the most dangerous things in shoeing is an unruly horse confined in stocks.

Generally a farrier who does more than the occassional draft will own a pair of 15" nippers and the longer simonds big hoof rasps. I keep 2 sets of rasps on the truck one standard legnth and the big hoof set for warmbloods and drafts. You could order a set of the above from most of the vendors on the market place section of this website. If you get a rasp order a handle for it as well.

Make sure they are well trained for farrier! That's most guys pet peeve. I insist either that the horses be trained to pick their feet up and not pull them away or that I be allowed and compensated for my time to train them (In additon to farrier services I also offer natural horsemanship training). However most farriers prefer not to train so you will need in most cases to train them for the farrier. Clinton Anderson sells a tape onthis (www.clintonanderson.net) as does frank bell (www.horsewhisperer.com)

If they are already well behaved (do some soul searching on this as that is usually the issue with farrier turnover with drafts) and you give any amount of tip (tips really are not necessary) and offer a cold drink in summer and all the other considerate things that owners sometimes do then the local farriers are foolish not to take you on. I frankly enjoy the company of the big horses and find most of them more enjoyable than the hyper types (some appies, arabs, TB's etc can be a real adventure to get done)

Keep doing what you are doing and also if you see some drafts at a local farm stop in and ask who they are using.

Good luck!

George

[Jason Maki]

George is right. There are two kinds of Draft animal in the world, by my estimation: cupcakes who stand and are sweet and then those who I will not touch. If your guys are standing well, are on a schedule and you are TIPPING, give me a call :D ! I am kidding, but it sounds like you have done your part. Some guys just do not like working on big guys...they take more time, more energy and even the good boys weigh alot more. I SHoe a huge, young Shire, trim a Shire mare, shoe a good warmblood and trim an Arab/trekaner two year old at one acount and i am just about toasted. The owner usually feeds me lunch, and her husband, a pediatrician but a real guy, has nailed off shoes after I have set them. The drafters are point and click, nail at the angle of the wall, bang the E10 till it pops! The wife was not happy, but the husband loved it! I may do one other shoe that day or a couple of trims. I charge double my regular price on trims, just under double for front shoes and 4 shoes resets on the big ones. I agree that the stocks would be harder than without. You probobly just havbe not found the right farrier, keep looking and good luck!
Jason

[Bigfoot10]

Hello George & Jason,
Thanks so much for your reply & input on my situation.

I'm in QH country so Drafts aren't the norm. The farriers are intimidated by their size & shocked by their weight. Even though they both pick up their feet on command they are still incredibly heavy, so I do feel for them.

I've paid any where from $60 to $70 per horse per trim, offered hot & cold drinks, tip, warmed up or cooled down the center isle to make it as comfortable as possible for them to work, let them chose the time that suites them. This always ends up with me loosing time & money from work, but I'm quite prepared to conform in any way I can to get the job done. Often they re schedule, one didn't even bother to do that, he just didn't show up & never heard from him again. Being as they are not draft farriers it takes them twice as long, so maybe they figure the job just wasn't worth the money & they should have charged more for the extra time. Not my fault it took them half the day though.

I wondered if I could get one of them to teach me & my Husband how to do a basic trim. (ok so I'm in dream land, but desperation does funny things to the mind LOL) I know there's no way we could possibly learn what it's took you guys years to learn & perfect. I just thought that maybe if we could do the basics then the farrier would only have to come out on occasion to tweak & touch up while we were doing the majority of the grunt work. These are barefoot pasture pets & an occasional half hour trail rides, no fancy show shoes. Any idea how much would be appropriate to offer someone to come out & teach us the basics? Over what time span would it take? Or is that against the grain to even ask? I'm just at such a loss as to what to do & where to go from here. I'm ready to do anything to get this situation resolved. They are getting worse by the day & I'm getting more & more desperate!

Bigfoot 10

[Dances with Hooves]

Hello George & Jason,
I wondered if I could get one of them to teach me & my Husband how to do a basic trim. (ok so I'm in dream land, but desperation does funny things to the mind LOL) I know there's no way we could possibly learn what it's took you guys years to learn & perfect. I just thought that maybe if we could do the basics then the farrier would only have to come out on occasion to tweak & touch up while we were doing the majority of the grunt work. These are barefoot pasture pets & an occasional half hour trail rides, no fancy show shoes. Any idea how much would be appropriate to offer someone to come out & teach us the basics? Over what time span would it take? Or is that against the grain to even ask? I'm just at such a loss as to what to do & where to go from here. I'm ready to do anything to get this situation resolved. They are getting worse by the day & I'm getting more & more desperate!

Bigfoot 10

When I do trim coaching classes for one on one or a small group my fee is an hourly rate. We usually spend 3-4 hours with me doing one front and one hind as a demo with explanation and the client doing the rest of the feet on 2 - 3 horses. My fee is $60 an hour and there is a farm call of $7 to 20 depending on how far I drove to get there. Most of the folks I have coached are able to maintain the hooves and have me in a few times a year to do a trim to make sure no hoof distortion is creeping in. Kinda like rotate your own tires on the car but get a professional tire balance and alignment 3 times a year. The caveat is that all have had regular sized horses. It takes quite a lot of conditioning and stregnth and horsemanship to get a draft trimmed. If you can successfully manage the horse than you should be able to learn the trim.

I would recommend natural horsemanship tapes like the frank bell one for the handling and Gene Ovniceks Natural Balance trim tape for the trimming techniques. www.hopeforsoundness.com

George

[Bigfoot10]

George,
Boy I wish you were in my neck of the woods, your rates sound very reasonable, I'd jump on it if you were local. I know you're not, otherwise all my searching & scouring for a good farrier would have found you by now.

Thanks for the link, it's like a light at the end of a tunnel :) I'll go order it.

Thanks again,

Bigfoot10

[Jack Flynn]

Hey Bigfoot, after reading these posts and being a guy who does a "few" heavy horses, I'd just like to say thanks.
If even a half of the draft horse owners gave as much consideration as you say that you do, you guys would never have to worry about finding a shoer.
The heavy horses are tough enough, a guy should'nt need to worry about what he may make on a job (if he does'nt get bolluxed up in the process).
Take a look at what it cost you to buy the tools neccesary, multiply by , ok, maybe ,say,4 or maybe closer to 5, add it up and then figure if it's worth your time.