Schools,Apprenticing,Do's and Dont's

[Karen B.]

So, this is what's happening.Since I've been having no luck in being able to find a farrier willing to take on an apprentice,It looks like school is the most obvious choice.However,100% of the farriers I have spoken with consider school as unimportant,you don't really learn until you can apprentice for several years.With that said,If I went to school and expect to still have the need to apprentice what would I do as no one in the area is willing to take on an apprentice.I've been told everything from "I just don't take apprentices" to "I won't ride with a woman,it doesn't LOOK good and my wife won't allow it".If anyone here can reccomend a school,which one would you attend? Any to absolutely stay away from? Any words of wisdom??? Thanks in advance! ~Karen

[Rick Burten]

Going to school first is always the best way to proceed. Deciding which school to attend is the conundrum. These are the ones I have personal knowledge of and am willing to recommend(in no particular order): Heartland Horseshoeing School, Lamar, Mo.; Cornell University, Ithaca, NY; Kentucky Horseshoeing School, Mt. Edens, Ky. I am sure there are others, and perhaps some other farriers will weigh in with their opinions and recommendations.

I think the farriers who have told you that school is unimportant are wrong. You will learn the basics, what the tools are, how to use them, etc. This makes you much more valuable as an apprentice or assistant because you will already have basic knowledge and rudimentary skills. The schools are set up to give you a foundation upon which it will be up to you to build.

Do not make the mistake of attending a two or four week farrier course. It is not nearly long enough and you will do yourself and the industry a disservice. Whatever schools make it to your short list, investigate fully. Ask about the course content, the instructors, facilities, etc.

You should also have a fairly extensive knowledge of and skill in handling horses, and understand the principles of horsemanship. You will also have to have a lot of or acquire business skills, as you will be running a small business with all the good and bad that that engenders. If you are not a "self-starter", then this profession is not for you. You will need to have some capital in reserve , enough to sustain you for at least one to two years. You may have to consider starting on a part-time basis and holding down another job that will provide you with income and some benefits, especially health benefits.

You may well have to relocate to either establish a practice or begin an apprenticeship. And you should know that apprentices work very hard and earn very little money, at least initially. When you go into an apprenticeship you and the master/mentor should have a clear understanding of what you can expect to learn and accomplish and what will be expected of you. You can have a verbal agreement, an informal contract, or a formal contract, but in every instance, everything should be spelled out quite clearly.

As to the comment about having a female apprentice, this sounds like someone and or their wife is really insecure. I have worked with women and have experienced no problems. My clients do not seem to have any problem with it either. I also know of other farriers who have had women work with/for them and have not had any problems.

Join and become active in your state farrier's association and the American Farriers Association. Suscribe to as many of the professional magazines as you are able. Realize that becoming a farrier is a lifelong pursuit and you can never learn too much or acquire too much skill. The early years will be lean years and most farriers who fail, do so before their fifth year in business. Know that you will have an investment of several thousands of dollars in tools, equipment and supplies, and a vehicle to use as your mobile shop.

Do not believe any hype that tells you that you will be earning big money right after you graduate from school. That falls under the P.T. Barnum branch of salesmanship.

Rick

[Jason Maki]

Yeah, what Rick said! Go to one of the schools he listed( I personally went to Heartland In '97, it was worth every penny!) and worked with a good CJF for several years one to two days a week. I still work with him sometimes, though now as peers(more or less :D ). As to having a woman along, I would see no problem, 99.5 % of my clients are women. I spend far more time with "other women" than with my wife. Maybe she is okay with it because I take their money and give it to her :D ! Honestly, in any proffesion, we will be exposed to the other species, and a proffesional horseshoer will behave exactly like a proffesional in any feild towards a co-worker; with respect and decency. Period. Yes, good, close relationships will develop, but the right kind is a positve. This is a demanding and difficult undertaking, but rewarding if you are persistent, smart and willing to suffer for your art. Good luck!
Jason Maki CJF

[Karen B.]

Thank you so much for your reply! I've applied to Cornell every year for the past three years.I've been told getting in as a female and at my age (mid 30's) is tough.I just sent a new application in yesterday so we'll see what that brings.I have quite a few tools already as I trim my own drafts.No one in the area is willing to deal with the "large ones".I have a feeling this is going to be a long road ahead.My biggest fear is finishing school and being unable to find a farrier to apprentice with.

[J.H. shoeing]

Karen

I think Rick and Jason are exactly right about school. But you may have to travel to find an apprenticeship. But the travel is not necessarily a bad thing and working with multiple farriers that work in different horse disciplines is also something to think about. I would like to have worked on larger variety of horses when I was apprenticing, and spent several monthes with about 4 different Farriers that had different practices. That is just my view.

Jeff

[Karen B.]

Problem is I have a husband and two kids and I don't think they would pack up and go too easily.My husband has a very good career and we just settled in on a new farm.I've been placing my horses in new homes with the anticipation of leaving for school.I am lucky in the fact that I live in Massachusetts on the border of CT. and Rhode Island so I could travel within reason to at least these three states.There is a HUGE call for people to shoe/trim draft and draft cross horses.Nobody around here will touch them.Also a good amount of people who need good balanced trims.Most of the guys around here are older and can really pick and choose who they want for clients.

[Dave Purves]

Give Mitch Taylor a call at the Kentucky Horseshoeing School, and talk to him, I know for sure that they do a pretty good job of finding students someone to apprentice with. I would call all of the schools but I know Kentucky does that, I think Chris Gregory's school does too. That is Heartland Horseshoeing School.
good luck
Dave Purves CF

[Karen B.]

Thanks! I'll give them a ring tomorrow.

[Tom Ring]

Karen,
It's aways away from you , however I recommend Jeff Engler's program at Walla Walla community college, they also have a 2 yr degree program.
You can have a horse shoe nail, but KNOWING what to do with it, and HOW to do it makes the difference!
Tom

[vthorseshoe]

Karen;
Contact John Blombach at P.O. Box 740 Westminster, Mass. 01473

John isn't far from you and would give you help and advice if someone in your area is looking for an apprentice.

John has an ad in The Eagle, <newsletter put out by Southern New England Farriers Assoc.>
Looking for Apprentice/helper/assistant to work in an established multi discipline farrier practice with concentration in Hunters and Jumpers.
Must be reliable, responsible, personable, and eager to work.
Interested parties may contact;
John Blombach CJF at 978-874-2806 or e-maikl at PhantomFarrier@aol.com

hope this helps you

p.s. SNEFA is a very good source to locate someone looking for an apprentice in your area.

Bruce
Northeast drafthorse Shoeing

[Phil Armitage]

Karen, don't feel alone about not finding someone to let you apprentice with them. I found it was the most difficult thing to do after I got out of school and I was very worried about my income with a family and bills to pay. I did end up working for a great person and Farrier and working two part time jobs while I learned. It was also very important for me to find a school close to home, because of family and my jobs. I totaly disagree with the Farriers that told you school is not important. It is very important to go to a good school and to ride with a Farrier that knows how to teach and is open minded. There are a lot of jerks in this trade as in any trade, don't take the abuse keep putting the word out that your looking for someone the ride with, not all Farriers can communicate and teach, they may be good at the trade but lack people skills. I am always open to someone riding with me, I can't afford to pay an apprentice and cannot take responsibility if you get injured, so I may have an apprentice signe a waver, even then a Farrier is still liable for someone getting hurt. It is a huge risk having someone ride with you, but I think things can be worked out with the right person. Just like horses you can't trust them all but some of them can be trusted. As long a you or any other person realises that it is a risk and and you are a reasonable person with common sense then that reduces the risk. I think things could be worked out. I always welcome people that I can trust to ride along and learn, I know how hard it was for me and now it is time for me to give in return and it does not matter if the Farrier is male of female as long as they can be trusted and willing to work.

[Donnie Walker]

An education is of upmost importance, regardless of one's profession. Many professionals, past and present, did not attend schools for their trade, and had to learn through "TRIAL and ERROR". They will tell you this if they are of good character and have any level of integrity. They will also tell you who the victim of the "ERROR" was. Their reason for non-schooling could have been for reasons beyond their control. Don't let this stand in your way. Don't let the horse be a victim. Become a lifetime student of the "ART", not just a graduate of a basic school. It was my field of study over 40 years ago, but I did not let it end there. Attend every seminar you can locate, pre-school and post-school. It is an evoling field of science. You evidently possess that attribute or you wouldn't be inquiring now of its importance. An far as apprenticeships are concerned - "you might possibly pose a threat to the income of your peers", depending upon your geographical location, horse population, and practicing farriers in that area. Hopefully you can be located where this does not present a problem. Locate a farrier that has a large stable. Perhaps he/she will let you meet them there just to observe and ask questions prior to attending school. Let them know your intentions. Go to "www.platinumhorse.net" and obtain their soft-ware on the distal limb. Begin your studies on equine anatomy, not just of the foot, but of the whole equine, because shoeing should be a holistic procedure. Hang in there, be persistent, diligent and relentless, and good luck.

[shoesofiron]

Karen B said, "and at my age (mid 30's) is tough".

Listen, I don't want to be the one to toss cold water on a dream here, but if I can save someone some grief and heartache, it might be worth it.

Karen, I have no idea of who you are, what you're made of or anything else.
But listen to me when I tell you that if you're already in your mid 30's and haven't even started shoeing yet, then I would hope for your sake that you have the body of a tough steel worker, brick layer or something that has kept you in tip top shape for your life ALREADY.
Mid 30's. Ok, let's say you get into school today and you line up a shoer to help you right out of school (which is going to be difficult at best). IN tow or three years, you're going to be pushing 40 and still not have nearly the skills to make a full time profesion.
Your learning curve is going to be slower than someone younger because your brain synapses are already "grooved" into letting you do whatever it is you do. So learning hammer control, balance under a horse, trimming techniques are going to come slow and at a high cost of personal physical fatigue. You'll be more apt to be injured by your inexperience and inability to "feel it coming" and your healing time will be slow, making your progress toward proficiency even slower.
You ARE going to get hurt in this business, not if, but when.
Maybe you're the exception.
But I've seen several men try to learn this trade in their thirties and two of them gave me their aprons because they swore off the trade after less than 2 years trying.
One guy purchased everything he needed to make his job easier and still gave it up within a year.
Don't let anyone kid you about the strength and strain involved here. It's not for the faint of heart.
I wish you well, but if I were you, I'd re-think my plan. 35 is the very edge of the limit on taking up something like this.
20 year olds by the dozens quit because it's too tough and a LOT tougher than they thought it would be. And... it doesn't get any easier the older you get....
Sorry, had to be straight with you.

[hoofnhound]

Scott,I know where you are coming from,but men forget us girls can be something to reckon with!!
I think a dose of cold water is great, it's not an undertaking to be taken on lightly but Karen,don't dispair.
If you have a healthy fierce streak and are tenacious by nature you will probabally be ok.
I got a kick out of seeing those young tough guys crumble in school. I remember one of them went on and on about being an ex-army ranger and how tough he was.
He lasted 3 weeks.

Also Scott,I think I met you? Out on the town with some other Indiana guys (+a few Kentucky) after the banquet at April's Indianapolis contest?

[EileenHughes]

Thanks Scott, I feel positively decrepit now.

Are we really old in our 30's? I fully expect to see 100, so I'm thinking 30's is spring chicken phase of life!! :)

Seriously, you have a good point for those of us who are starting a bit later. It seems like it's in your thirties that you realize that your mileage is high and you have to pay more attention to the preventative maintenance.

Karen does trim her own drafts, so her body has some experience....if she can master working in stocks, that could help her even more, since she wants to work with the bigger ones. So maybe she'll be one that can get away with starting late.

[Karen B.]

Geeze....thanks for the vote of confidence Shoesofiron.Maybe those of us who start late are doing it for the love of the trade and not the money to be made......possibly this could make the difference.I'm not going to be out to make a quick buck.To many of those around this area. :rolleyes:

[Phil Armitage]

OK, Karen is tough :). Karen have you found a school yet? How about Danny Wards school near Virginia, great school and Dannie Ward is also great. Still pretty close. 30 is not old, but your going definately going to find muscles you never knew you had, I did and they still ache. I also found that shoeing for a liveing does not help my abs, pot belly and strong back :)

[Rick Burten]

I also found that shoeing for a liveing does not help my abs, pot belly and strong back :)

Phil,

Ya' just gotta look at it in the right light. Its not a pot belly at all. As I tell my daughter, why would I settle for a six pack(abs) when I can have a pony keg? :D Especially one that comes with a non-clogging spigot.

Rick

[Dances with Hooves]

We have quite a few of us in maine who came to farriery in our 30's as corporate refugees. Phil and myself you know from the boards. 2 who don't post here (and are excellent farriers) are Ann Melville and Fred Bowers. Freds one of the few CJF's in maine and has helped me a great deal with forge work. But the best tip fred ever gave me was find a very good massage therapist and get a theraputic deep tissue massage every 2 weeks. I can't tell you what a difference it makes! I also took up Yoga and find that indespensible as well. I consider myself an aging athlete and take a sportsmedicine approach to my shoeing career.

george

[John Barney]

This has to be the longest running thread of all time. I don't think it is the age at which you start as much as what you are made of. I have seen people quit that were young and physically suited to be a farrier. At a shade over six feet and 220lbs (34 waist and no pot belly :cool: ) I have be told by a few people, including some family members, that I'm too big to be a farrier and won't last. Well going on five years with no plans to stop. At 42 I think I still have at least 10 to 15 years left. I don't shoe as many as most of you, not by choice, since I only retired from the military 8 months ago and I'm trying the old fashioned word of mouth way to build a business. I do know that in the spring and summer when it's busier I feel better physically. Which leads me to the point of all this rambling. Karen, make sure you have enough horses for you to work at least a day or two each week. I initially went to school to do my own only. Doing three horses every six weeks killed me even when I was five years younger. Hang in there, if you have the mettle to do it you will. If you are like me when someone says I CAN'T do something it means the challenge is on. Good luck and keep us posted.

JB

[Jack Evers]

John has some good points. I started shoeing to work my way thru college, then dropped back to doing my own and a few friends. I've always stayed in good physical shape, but as I got into my late 30's, I suddenly realized that I could no longer shoe shoe a little bit and be comfortable. I had to shoe on a regular basis or let someone else do it. I went to Doug Butler's advanced class to upgrade my skills and started shoeing for the public. Now at the age of 67, I'm still shoeing and still enjoying it. With the kids on their own, the mortgage paid and the retirement accounts in decent shape, I don't shoe as much as I did (I truly only take the ones I like), and I really don't need to shoe at all, but I feel better when I'm physically active. I tend to schedule one client a day now. If they have one horse, that's OK. If they have more than five, I'll come back tomorrow. Now I can travel and ride my own horses.

Jack

[caballus]

Hi Karen ... don't let the naysayers git ya down. First of all I'm of the female persuasion and a grandmother of 4. I care for 17 horses on my farm. I train (any age including colt starting) and I trim hooves. Secondly, I took this up with a professional mind set 5 years ago at the age of 48. I'm now 53 -- started with regular, professional clients 2 years ago at 51. Been trimming my own guys for a long time (since the 80's) in between farrier visits. (cleaning up the rough edges, shaping, etc.) At 48 I could do maybe, 2 horses a day, full trim, but it would take me a long time. Now, at 53 I can do 6 - 8 horses a day and if they're simply maintenance then it takes me approx. 1/2 hr. per horse. And, I love drafts! Don't much like it when they aren't trained properly to stand for hoof work but I love 'em all the same and *do* work on them. I trim, tho, and don't shoe. Thirdly, I believe we're neighbors. I live in Douglas just a mile from the RI border. Which brings me to this. Shoot me an email and we can discuss apprenticing and all that if you'd be interested. I always could use an extra hand or two.

*S* --caballus

[Bill Adams]

Cab,
This is realy not the place to brag about triming eight horses. All at one time? each foot? Then what do you do after breakfast? I realy do mean this in fun, your post was like a hanging curve ball for those of us who consider eight trims a day off. when you do tens of thousands (twenty a week, fifty weeks a year, twelve years.....) remember, we trim when we shoe.

Karen,
Shoeing is not twice the work of triming, it's got to be ten times at least, and the knoledge, and skill have to be fifty times more.
I started at thirty five and was too fat, but have been able to gain some weight since. Been going twelve years and can handle more work now than when I started.

Rick,
I have great, strong, washboard abbs. They just kinda hide under the washtub.

Bill

[caballus]

Well shoot, Bill ... and I thought I was doing purty good. I figure I could maybe add one more a day in the next year or two ...

;) cab

[Bill Adams]

Cab,
Well good. I'm glad to see that I have challanged and inspired you. A couple of more years and we'll have you shoeing half a dozen before lunch!
However, my barefoot friend, I would that you take a few days now and have a Merry Christmas. Enjoy the family and remember the One we celebrate!

God Bless,
Bill

[Karen B.]

Well I recieved my yearly rejection letter from Cornell,no suprise there,so I will be looking for schools farther away from home.I wonder if I sent my application to Cornell under my husband's name if I would get accepted :rolleyes: You guys (and girls) have some great advice,I haven't given up yet.I'm still really looking forward to getting into the trade!

[Mike Ferrara]

Well I recieved my yearly rejection letter from Cornell,no suprise there,so I will be looking for schools farther away from home.I wonder if I sent my application to Cornell under my husband's name if I would get accepted :rolleyes: You guys (and girls) have some great advice,I haven't given up yet.I'm still really looking forward to getting into the trade!

Rejection letter? I guess business is good for somebody huh?

[old heller]

karen b. do not be discouraged cornell has a lack of horses you will be spending your time almost exclusivly on forge work with no place to apply it.mike may be a fine instructor but you will be lucky to do anything but discuss the theory of how to put a shoe on.Danny Ward is a fine choice reasonably close.if it was my money cornell would not be the choice good luck.

[Karen B.]

Are there any schools anyone would absolutely stay away from? You can send me an e-mail or private message if it is inappropriate to post negative things here.Also, Danny Wards website is not currently working.Is there a new link for him?

[Bill Adams]

It may be out of business now, but you should avoid the school I went to. I shouldn't name names but the initials are Okalhoma Horseshoeing School.
They make tools and anvils now.
Bill

[Red Amor]

EXCUSE ME but Farriers dont have pot or fat bellies

We have fuel tanks for love machines ay he he he ;)

or varandahs for young wal

[Karen B.]

You are too funny!!! :D

[redd2001]

Hello to all!
This is great site to get information and comments from both sides of the horse. I'm looking into attending a farriers school next year. Bill Adams you posted a message talking about OK. School. Do you have any comments on the OK State school. I'm from Va. and haven't looked into Danny Wards School. He is with the BWFA. Anyone have any comments about his school. Ya'll have given me alot to think about starting out. I'm lucky I think, a local farrier with 20 years of experience will be allowing me to ride with him. My plan is to take this year to learn , read , practice and committ to becoming a farrier or find out that this trade is not for me before attending a school and spending the investment $$.

I'm looking for a copy of principles of horseshoeing II.
Thanks, Redd

[Gary_Miller]

Redd

Check E-bay thats where I got mine cost me about $45.

Gary

[redd2001]

thanks gary,

I looked on ebay no one had the II, but it did find version III.($167) but at the moment that one is a little pricey.

redd

[Bill Adams]

Hello Redd
(not to be confused with Red, or as confused as Red. big grin mate)

I have heard good things about Ok state HS School. I belive that's Regie Kester's outfit.
Have heard nothing but good about Danny Ward's place too.

A person with what it takes can learn at any school, and a person what don't can't make it any where.

Welcome aboard,
Bill

[redd2001]

Thanks Bill
I would like to find out more about Danny Wards school. I might just have to drive down there next week.

Redd

[redd2001]

Well I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread but here goes.

Karen i just recieved Danny Wards info packet, seems okay not as fully explained as some of the schools I have looked at online. If you want i will copy it and send to you. His schools an hour away from my house so that maybe great for me.

I have locked into riding with an established Farrier today. I start with two days a week starting Wed. He has told me that he is shoeing 75-100 a week depending on the weather.
Give me some advice ya'll... do i ask many questions... do i shut my mouth and just watch mostly ...what annoys ya with newbies...?

Redd

[Shockn&Gucci_rule]

Hi Redd2001,

I'm a newbie w/ farriery too; and, reading some of these posts it really reinforces just how fortunate I am to "have" the absolutely beyond awesome farrier that has been helping me sooo much.

Anyways, he lets me ask an absolute ton of questions, (atleast, he hasn't told me to quit!!!! :p ) and he is going FAR out of his way to teach me an absolute ton and thoroughly. He never has gotten annoyed with me, even when I've lost my temper. (oops!)

Wishing you luck! And, DO ask questions -- you'll find out quick enough if the farrier you're with doesn't like to be asked questions! :D

[Bill Adams]

Hey Redd,
Sometimes, the better the brosure the poorer the product. Danny Ward's school is recognized amoung Farriers at top notch, but any school is only as good as the student.
As to riding with a Farrier, don't ask questions in front of the client such as; "Are they supsosed to bleed that much?" etc. Don't make sugestions, don't offer opinoins, till you get to know the fella. Offer to help, but don't start with out being told. Don't ask ****** questions. Contrary to popular belief, there such things.
Just be slow and quite till you get to know the person. He's having you along so he should be nice enough.
My $0.02,
Bill

[J.H. shoeing]

Redd

If he is shoeing a 100 a week you won't have time to ask many questions.

Jeff

[Red Amor]

STRUTH 75 T0 100 a week

you'll need a new ring gear if your to keep up with him , its a good thing they come in six packs at the chemist yeah?

[Phil Armitage]

On the subject of **** questions, be carefull about asking in front of the customer, especially Barn owners and Trainers, they hear a **** question your done in there mind, many of them don't remember the days when they were learning and have no tolerance for it. Keep your mouth shut and ears and eyes open, people like the silent type most of the time they think you know what your doing. The best time to talk is in the truck or at your favorite lounge over a beer. Then when the waitress hear's ya talking about horses they ussually come over and want to know what you do for a living, then you tell lies and brag about your scars. :)

[Gary Hill]

I disagree about a student not asking any question they have about shoeing! How are they supposed to learn? Even better in front of clients, as that is your opportunity to take the stage and educate them all. Trainers too, that think they know what they want, it's a great way to inform and talk about problems. The only ****** questions are the ones not asked! If they ask about blood,then we must be doing something wrong! It is a good way to get into their heads and let them know YOU know more than you show! All good farriers have heard at one time as they work that "that looks easy, I could do my own!" As we all know the art is deeper than that! Just my thoughts, Thanks! Gary

[Phil Armitage]

Gary, if you rode with me and you asked questions in front of a client, I would ask you to hold off on the questions until we got back into the truck. If you did not take my request seriously, you woudnt be able to come along again. This a persons lively hood we are talking about, horse owners, trainers and barn owners can be very cautious and they have every right to be, a person could loose a big barn based on a very small thing that might raise concerns and lead to trust issues. You want to ask and answer quetions this forum is perfect for it, beucase everyone here is here open to it.

[John Barney]

Ok, I know almost five years is not a long time being a farrier, but 100 shoeings a week! Come on that is 14.28 horses every day for seven days. How long does it really take to shoe a horse correctly and does horse 1 and horse 14.28 have the same quality job? How about day seven when you have done this six days without a break already? Either someone tends to stretch the truth alittle or I'm a big sissy. Comments?

JB

[redd2001]

Thanks for your thoughts. I too thought when he told me that he does 75-100, was alot of horses. I will wait and see. I do believe as with any business
there are time and places for questions. I do have some base skills with horses and a little common sense . I guess i have first time jitters

thanks for the input about schools. Danny Wards school i think i will set up some time to drive down there.

Redd

[Phil Armitage]

See what a few beers will do, you start telling lies to the bar tender and waitress, "Yep I am a Farrier" Oh my gosh, what is that? "Well I shoe horses" You shoot horses :confused: No, no I.... s h o e... horses. Ohhhh, LOL you shoe horses, are there that many horses out there? Ohh yea, tons of them everywhere, big barns little barns, but you have to know what your doin, takes a lot of skill. How often do they need shoes? "Well lets see every 6-8 weeks" Wow, how many do you do every day? "Well let me see, (honest answer is 4-6 a day, but that sounds like so little, geesh feels like I do more than that) I do about 10-15 a day, Ohhh (waitress thinking yea right ego detector going off) How long does it take to shoe a horse? "Oh if your good like me, about 30 minutes to do them all around, if they give you trouble it might take a liittle longer" Ohh my gosh they give you trouble, I would be afraid to near them, have you ever gotten hurt. "OHHHH yea, look at this scar right here got a nail right into my finger, blead like a pig, had to go to the emergency room almost died from it.

So there is where the numbers 75-100 a week come from. Just heard this conversation the other day, I added a little to make it an interesting read. I was honest, my buddy was flirting.

[redd2001]

Phil you should be a playwright. but the point is well taken
redd

[caballus]

*LOL* Well, Phil - everyone needs an ego stroke now and then, huh? Especially when trying to be impressive. But then it usually, somehow, backfires, doesn't it? *VBG*

--cab

[Jason Maki]

Phil,
Amen to that! BTW, I agree if you are doing it right, four to six shoes a day is alot, or atleast enough. I was thinking about this today, and between shoes and trims, I am under 7 to ten horses a day. Some days four, some days fifteen( if a lot of trims, or its july and I am way behind! :D ) So 8 would be a good number of total horses a day multiply by 5 days in a week, then multiply by 50 work weeks in a year--thats under 2000 horses and 8000 feet trimmed. I'm tired thinking about it! 100 horses SHOD a week x 50 weeks would be 5000 horses a year, or 20000 feet trimmed and shod! WOW! :rolleyes: ...
I guess I'm a wimp!
Jason

[Mike Ferrara]

The most I ever did I think was shod 9 and trimed a couple. I was younger, it was the middle of summer and I was behind and at that it was a LONG day.

I've done a little more when I had help...even some one to pull shoes and clinch makes a big difference.

I don't think I'd promise more than 6 (shod all the way around) and I'd rather shoot for 4.

[Gary Hill]

Phil, I've always been open and honest with my clients and welcome them to discuss any issues that they might not understand. Many times it has cleared up problems with clients that they were afraid to ask. Remember if you have an apprentice riding with you, owners expect you to be verbal with your student. Never in 27 years has it caused a problem, has settled quite a few tho. Again it works for me, Best, Gary

[Gary Hill]

Last night I ran into another local farrier at a Feed Lot Sorting practice my wife and I were at. First thing he always says is how many horses he shod or trimmed that day. My answer has turning into "One less that you did!" I don't know why guys get off on braggin about how many they get under in a day?? I'll do my 5 or 6 and go home! Gary

[Bill Adams]

My faviorte how fast you can do'em story is about a shoer who came to a ranch to shoe four horses. This is all true by the way. So the lady who told me this said to him that the gray mare was going to be shown that summer, so could he do an extra good job on her. He did. He spent an hour shoeing the mare, and then another hour shoeing the other three. This guy was known for picking up a foot and it not touching the ground untill it was done.
Hey Jason,
Some time sit back and estamate how many nails you've driven.
Bill

[Dave Purves]

Hey Phil, you're buddy forgot to tell the waitress that he makes $500 per horse. When I had the pleasure of going down to Goergia and working with Jaye, we met up with the great Palmer Wilson. That's the gentlemen that taught Jaye a few things, anyway Palmer was taking his time driving nails to the hairline on this one horse and I asked him, Palmer how many horseshoe nails have you driven in your life? We started doing some math, 7 horses a day 4 shoes, 7 nails per shoe = 196 nails per day, 5 days a week = 980 nails per week 50 weeks a year = 49,000 nails per year 45 years (I think) = 2,205,000 nails driven, not counting the ones that were pulled and re-driven. That's almost two and a quarter million nails driven. It's amazing.
Dave Purves CF

[Phil Armitage]

Phil, I've always been open and honest with my clients and welcome them to discuss any issues that they might not understand. Many times it has cleared up problems with clients that they were afraid to ask. Remember if you have an apprentice riding with you, owners expect you to be verbal with your student. Never in 27 years has it caused a problem, has settled quite a few tho. Again it works for me, Best, Gary

I understand what your saying, I have customers that totaly trust me and I totaly trust them and we have become good friends, we openly discuss all kinds of things. New England can be tuff though, I don't know if it is the cold weather, but it takes a long time for people to warm up to ya. I like to communicate, but I have gotten burned a few times, because of misunderstandings. Probably me, I continue to improve my communications skills. Giving unsolicited advice in my area can be taken as an insult around here. How about telling someone something that might save there horses life, like your horse is fat. I like to tell them your being a little too kind and too careing to your horse, then chuckle a little, and then wait to see if they ask what do you mean? This trade has taught me more than shoeing. I use to be pretty direct and not care how people took it, sometimes I am still that way with certain types of people, then I decided it is also important that I can have a roof over my head, pay my bills and eat. :) I also found a sense of humor goes a long way. Been hard to have a sense of humor lately with temps below zero. If I am lucky, the smile freezes to my face for the day, :D

[Gary Hill]

I'm so glad that in this day and age farriers are more open with their knowledge. When I got out of North Texas Farriers Institude, owned and taught by Al Pinson, in 1978, farriers were not very helpful with a new kid in the neighborhood! The first few times I would see another farrier working at a barn I would stop and introduce myself and ask if they would mind if I observed and maybe ask a question now and then. Unfortunately most the time I got rebuked and run off! I did one year go up to the State Fair barns and watched Lee Liles work and even brought my camera. Lee was and still is GREAT, as he let me take pictures of him as he worked ,and asked anything that came to my mind! I'm sure he kinda regreaded letting me do that after a whole day watching him! I did send him copies and just happened to run into him three weekends ago at a gas station as I was traveling through Okla. He invited me and my wife to come by and see his Museum and because we had a horse with us even offered to put us up for the night! We also had my father inlaw with us as to why we were going though OKla, so we resumed our trip home but do plan on visiting Lee this summer hopefully! That's another reason I like this forum so much, and I did live and work in New Jersey for two years but to shoe in the kind of cold weather y'all have you can keep it! Of course ours is 70's for a few days then rain and cold wind in the low 40's! It's no wonder our heads are so conjested! Anyways, Y'all have a good day! Gary

[Dave Purves]

As far as the questions go, the first few days you probably won't be doing alot anyway, so stay out of the way, stay quiet unless the elder statesman asks if you have any questions. Take a note pad and take notes so when you're in the truck you can ask all the questions you want. As you start to learn how your mentor works you will start helping more, then as time permits and the client is out of ear shot, you ask questions while you're working. The biggest problem with asking questions especially while the client is there is the time it takes to answer, and if the client hears the question then they will also want an explanation but in lehmans terms, at least you have a decent start at understanding farrier terms and such. Never wait to be told to do something, after a few times of riding you should start to know the routine and jump in and help. Never touch a foot with a rasp, knife or nipper until told, but don't be afraid to hand tools, or put a shoe in the forge and light it up while your mentor is under the horse, everything you do to help speed up the process will give your mentor more time and better reasons to help you learn.
just my opinion.
Dave Purves CF ;)

[redd2001]

thanks for the advice Dave and everyone. I learned today that the farrier i will be working with/for has two sons and they may at least one helper, learning, cleaning hooves, clinching, ect. So i believe he will be a good instuctor as well. :)
Redd

[Gary_Miller]

Does anyone have any informtion about Sonny Pistilli at Far Hills Forge Farrier School and his video/home-based farrier instruction course.

Gary

[Red Amor]

I hope he turns out to be a good instructor for you Reddfella
good luck mate
So how long have you been called Red:)

[Redd Mcintyre]

hey Red,
He has turned out be a good instructor. He now trusts me to do his finish work , execpt for a couple of horses that the client doesn't want anyone else to touch. With the weather here in Va. being wet and cold the outside shoeing has dropped off making a little more indoor time with him showing me some basic trimming and nipper work. I actually got to trim a broodmare (all four)and a draft (front two) yesterday . It was a really good day.
I started taliking the nickname of Redd when there was another man at the same work place with my first name 25 years ago
Redd McIntyre

[SoCALShoer]

Hi Karen,
Don't let the doomsdayers dissuade you. :p If your desire is unwavering and you have a realistic view of what it takes to be a farrier, don't let anyone tell you that you cannot become a farrier. I am 48 and have always been a fitness/strength training advocate. However, like anyone else, time under a horse, is the only way to become physically acclimated to this profession. Be sure the school you go to will give you plenty of horses to work on - not just what their webpage states. I know a farrier who went to
Cornell's program and has only good things to say about it. He was able to get a tremendous amount of experience under horses while in school.
Begin a strength training regimen in preparation for your new career to help make the transition a bit easier - concentrating on abs, lower body, back, and cardiovascular training.
I recently finished a school where I was 'encouraged' daily to quit and go do something else. I finished school along with a fellow student who was a female - 55 years old. :eek: ;) And she was not a fitness buff or a "bricklayer". She was a retired secretary, slender build, and tough as nails.
Women tend to utilize finesse, whereas guys usually depend on brute strength. You will go home at night after working on several horses with more energy than most male farriers.
I am currently doing paid 'ride-alongs' (apprenticeships) with a few local farriers and take care of my own horses' feet - in spite of those who told me I was not tough/young/country-boy enough.

Be strong and best of luck in your pursuits!

Regards,
Mark

[jrhondeau]

If you are interested in a Farrier school you might want to look at Victory Mountain Forge's website. Doug is presently offline due to technical difficulties but you can view his website to get more information on his Farrier School in Lava Hot Springs, Idaho.. I am temporarily receiving his e-mail and will forward any messages to him until he has installed his new computer system.. Jack R

[horseshoer101]

I need info on this subject.I am looking for the best school to attend for horseshoeing Etc.I live in Tenn.Just out of school ,have been riding and breaking horses for quite a few years now.I break horses on the side.I am very fit for this job.Hope you would get back to me soon as possible.Thanks horseshoer101

[e decker]

Check out The Kentucky Horseshoeing School. It went through a bit of a rough spot 2 years ago but came out stronger in the end.
Their web site is off and on, but you can reach them (ask for Kay) at 502-738-5257.