Farrier Help!!!

[Mackenzie J.]

Hi all,

I'm in a little bit of a bind. Here's the deal: We've used a farrier for the past 8 or 9 months or so, and he's a good guy. He's been very accomodating with all the things that we've wanted to try, and has given us good guidance and suggestions. He's very easygoing. I really do like him. However, we really have to keep on him about every detail or something ends up not being quite right with the shoeing. He does everything that we want, but he's not a real 'go-getter,' trying to constantly improve and make things the best they can be. He can also be very hard to get out; this past summer we needed him to come out to fix something and also replace two missing shoes on our mare, but he couldn't come out for 2 1/2 weeks to get the shoes on and make an adjustment to the gelding. Although earlier in the summer he did squeeze us in right before a show.

My trainer used to use another fellow, and has reconnected with him. It so happens that she was talking with him about my horse's feet, and he was full of ideas of things to try. He was very much on the same page with us, and agreed exactly with what we're trying to accomplish. He shoes other horses at our barn so he's out here quite frequently, and he's apparently very reliable. When we had him look at my horse a couple weeks ago, he corrected some important balance problems that helped him move better behind. I feel like we'd accomplish more with him. When my trainer gets her horse in a month or so, she's going to use this guy, and really suggests I switch to him.

So....what to do??? I like the first guy a lot, and there's no one thing he's done wrong. It can be frustrating to get on him about details, and I didn't like how he wouldn't come out for so long this summer. However, he's a good guy and he's done a good job. But on the other hand, it was so refreshing to work with a farrier that had our goals in mind and very much in the same thought as my trainer and I are. He's also out there for other horses and lives closer.

Should I let the first guy go? Again, it's nothing personal, and I don't know how to tell him that if I say we're going to use another farrier. I don't want to burn bridges. My horse likes both farriers equally. But at this point I'd prefer to use the second guy just 'cause he's on the same page...I just want to keep a good relationship with the first one, one that if the new one ever moved, got hurt, etc., I could call him.

Please, could you give some insight on what to do? What would you all, as farriers, expect and prefer? :confused: :confused:

I don't know what to do.....
Mac :(

[calshoer]

Professionalsget "fired" all the time whether their work is good or not. If he is a professional he should be used to gettinng fired occasionaly even when his work was good.
I would approach it with he fact that he is obviously overly busy and therefore since emergencies have proven so hard to take care in a timely manner you are going to try another fellow who is located more convenient to the barn.
"Thank you for the good work in the past and if we need another farrier in the future we will certainly keep you in mind" . Be sure thay you give him plenty of notice however, it is just not right to wait till a few days or week before the scheduled appointment to change farriers. Patty

[Dave Purves]

There are a lot of what if's and why not's, so I'll answer this while asking a couple of questions, first, what are the details?, what is wrong with your horse that you need to "accomplish" something? If you called him out cause you think there is a little flare that you want rasped off, that is unfair. However, if you lost shoes and he couldn't come out in a reasonable time, that is fair. Many times clients expect too much, and make unreasonable demands. Any little thing that looks out of place, and we get called, come out and look at this, and fix it. When most of the time it is normal growth. Most good farriers have a very tight schedule that keeps them moving, to go out of the way to check something every couple of weeks is bad for business. Specially, when there is nothing wrong. If you trust your farrier, keep him, if you don't move on. If you think you will get better results with the new farrier, then move on. However I will warn you that making unsubstantiated demands on any farrier will result in substandard service. It's not right, and it's not fair, but it is true. I had a client that wanted me to drive 50 min. away to simply address some flare on a horse that was due to be trimmed the next week, that is ridiculous, and I called her and told her to find someone else. Make sure that what you expect in service is resonable and you should have no problems. Ask your farrier what to expect in the 5 to 7 weeks in between visits, so you don't "hound" them about "normal" things. If you want to fire the farrier you have now, call him, explain why you feel you would get better results with the new farrier. Tell him the truth, cause a lie, is worse, in any case you would probably be hard pressed to get him to come back out. That is just how it is, again, it's not right but it is true.
good luck
Dave Purves CF :)

[Red Amor]

Good on ya Dave well said

Mackenzie J does have or may make a good point and unenviable position for her to be in
dammed if you do and dammed if you dont

Just be fair dinkum with him , if hes as nice a bloke as you say he,ll understand , smile polightly and make it easy on you



but get his reveng when he tops himself cause his best client/friend feels realy bad as ITS ALL HER FAULT ,SHE BROKE HIS HEART

he he he hope this helps ;)

[Mike Ferrara]

Ditto what Dave asked.

What details do you have to get after him about and what things do you want to try?

What important balance problems did he leave behind that the other guy had to fix?

Did you tell him that you thought there were important balance issues left untended? If so, What was his reaction?

I ask because I think most good farriers are looking out after many details that the owner never gives any thought to.

[Mackenzie J.]

It's all balance problems....Rambo, my horse, has a RF that "wants to be a club." It grows lots of heel no toe. (no DDFT or coffin bone involvement). He does have upright shoulder/pastern angle...around 58 degrees, so as long as he's careful to keep fitting it full as to not encourage it to contract furthur, he's in good shape. Doing this has actually helped this foot to spread a bit, even though we weren't sure if it would.

However the left front is underrun and has a tendancy to platter. Thus, his left leg is about 1/2-1in. shorter than the right, putting his body in a perpetual left shoulder fore. As you can imagine, this makes it quite uncomfortable to go right. Prior to figuring out it was shoeing related, he would object quite strongly to going right (ie. rearing...twirling around to the left...etc. Never in a "dangerous manner," he was actually quite polite about it.) Once we made an effort to even up the spine by addressing his feet, all behavior issues cease to exist.

This requires careful and consistent attention. The right needs to be fitted full and slowly heel trimmed away. The left needs it's heel Not to be touched because it needs heel desperately. The first farrier would do things like fit it tight on the rf, or take off all the heel we'd grown on that lf, or not take enough heel off the rf so the knee/chest box would be 1/2in off. THose things make a big difference to Rambo...he's quite sensitive...(TB).

I know it's a lot to ask him to come all the way back out, I can understand that. That's why the other guy is appealing because he's out here often and lives much closer. Just seems easier on everyone.

Oh, and behind he has some balance issues resulting from the front ones. the medial side of the rh was high, and the lateral side of the lh was high. I knew there was something not quite right behind, but couldn't figure it out. The second guy spent about 45 min. trimming and shoeing just the hind to correct the imbalances.

Anyway....that's the much abbreviated version. Hope this helps...I'm writing this extremely fast, so I hope this is clear and I said everything right. Thank you for your responses. !!

Mac ;)

[Mike Ferrara]

It's all balance problems....Rambo, my horse, has a RF that "wants to be a club." It grows lots of heel no toe. (no DDFT or coffin bone involvement). He does have upright shoulder/pastern angle...around 58 degrees, so as long as he's careful to keep fitting it full as to not encourage it to contract furthur, he's in good shape. Doing this has actually helped this foot to spread a bit, even though we weren't sure if it would.

However the left front is underrun and has a tendancy to platter. Thus, his left leg is about 1/2-1in. shorter than the right, putting his body in a perpetual left shoulder fore. As you can imagine, this makes it quite uncomfortable to go right. Prior to figuring out it was shoeing related, he would object quite strongly to going right (ie. rearing...twirling around to the left...etc. Never in a "dangerous manner," he was actually quite polite about it.) Once we made an effort to even up the spine by addressing his feet, all behavior issues cease to exist.

This requires careful and consistent attention. The right needs to be fitted full and slowly heel trimmed away. The left needs it's heel Not to be touched because it needs heel desperately. The first farrier would do things like fit it tight on the rf, or take off all the heel we'd grown on that lf, or not take enough heel off the rf so the knee/chest box would be 1/2in off. THose things make a big difference to Rambo...he's quite sensitive...(TB).

Thanks.

I think this is pretty common especially in certain breeds. I used to do a lot of saddlebreds and a huge percentage of them were this way...one high heel, often with a dish, and the other with no heel and wide. It's really noticable on these horses because theier feet are worn (or made) long.

As a rule of thumb, I would usually even them up some but didn't necessarilly try to make both feet the same. How much I evened them up depended more on how the horse went than what they looked like although I did have a picture in my head of where I prefered to start them.

At times, I could take a look and get them right. Other times we would shoe then work the horse and change them right then and there.

I see other horses with two different front feet also but it's not as noticable when the feet are short. While the dish doesn't seen as common, having 2 front feet that grow a little different sure does.


Some horses definately take more putzing to get them where you want them than others.

[Mackenzie J.]

Thanks, Mike, it's great to hear affirmation that this is a problem you've seen before. As you know, it takes long and dedicated work!! We started on this balancing thing last November and it's definitely a slow process. It's worth it, though. He probably won't ever have matching feet, that's a given...but keeping him balanced and constantly vying for the best we can do for Rambo.

One thing we've found to be very helpful is while trimming the high heeled hoof down slowly, to add a wedge to the low heel hoof. This evens the chest box, knees, fetlocks, coronet bands, and spine, providing an immense amount of comfort and relief to the musculature. We started doing Rambo in a 3 degree wedge, and the immediate difference was amazing. Now that he was actually straight, he was so comfortable and his movement improved drastically!! His cribbing also dramatically decreased.

We reached a point this summer where putting a wedge on would be too much, but leaving it off wasn't quite right. We made a leap off faith to go ahead and take off as much heal as we could on the high heeled one to make them even. To our relief, it worked!! He experienced no problems with his DDFT on that RF, which was a possibility if it truly was a low grade club. The next morning, his tendons were tight and COLD! That's what really convinced us that it wasn't a club foot, and just grew upright and was contracted from prior shoeing methods. It's not a chance I recommend taking on every horse (I think it was about 3 or 4 degrees or so), but in this case it worked. From then on we've been in plain steel shoes, but it takes careful and frequent shoeing to keep them even because the RF just grows so much heel so fast.

We're starting to get spread on that RF, and the LF is finally growing some heel! And his legs have been nothing but cold. I think we've finally figured out that he should be shod every 6 weeks or so, but every 3 weeks just his right front should be trimmed to keep him even. This frequent schedule, especially since one visit would be for only one hoof, is a reason for switching to the farrier that's close and is already out here. The other one lives 45 min. away, and doesn't do that many horses in my area.

I'd love to post some pictures, but I don't have a digital camara.

Anyway, that's the story!! I'd love to hear comments on this...have you or anyone else seen or done anything like this before?

God Bless,
Mac :)

[Red Amor]

HAYA Mac
Mate thanks for the post , very interesting and such a result , bewdy , good to here , and has given me some hope for dealing with one of mine
tar mate ;)

[Mackenzie J.]

Hey there...sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Red Armor. I'm assuming that you're from australia??? I want to go there SO bad. Someday...

I know I'm just an owner, but this thing has really made me want to learn all I can about the anatomy and art and science of shoeing. If I didn't have a bum knee (even tho I'm only in college... :( ), I'd go to farrier school. All of my research has really made me look at feet first when I look at a horse. And to realize that so many training issues and behavior problems are a result of imbalances and/or incorrect shoeing. I mean, Rambo was always thought of by others as a disobedient horse; no one gave him a chance, when really he was trying to communicate that it hurt for him to do the things he was asked. Now my thought is always how we can improve the comfort, well being, and thus the performance level by addressing the feet and striving to always make it better. And how important it is to have a great farrier!! You guys are priceless.

I think the most overlooked thing by trainers and owners is feet. I think the number two thing that's overlooked is saddle fit. Both things have a direct influence on the horses comfort level, personality, and ability.

Rambo used to be a deadhead; he cribbed constantly, he stood with a glazed over look in his eyes, and was soooo lazy. Now...he has the funniest personality. His eyes are bright and friendly, he's ever so curious, he LOVES peppermints, and his cribbing has ceased (as long as people don't watch him eat). It's truly amazing what addressing feet can accomplish. I never gave a second thought to shoeing when I was younger...it just never crossed my mind.

Anyway, an update: I decided to go ahead and use the second farrier just out of convience. The old farrier and I are on good terms, and I feel good about my decision.

Rambo's feet look amazing...the high-heeled foot hasn't shot off in growth, and the left front is growing heel, and lots of it! It's incredible, I never thought that his LF would actually grow heel, but it has. I think what made the big difference was correcting the issues in the back feet, because that's the only thing that's changed. He's at 3 1/2 weeks, now, and doesn't need new shoes. Usually by 3 weeks, he gets so uneven. It looks like we'll make it at least another 2, which is good. His movement has improved, too, shoulder movement alot freer (partly from the huge Spanish Walk he started offering--'twas the funniest thing! That alone stretches and increases shoulder mobility!) and his hind end looks real good.

Anyway...sorry that I'm rambling. Any comments? I'd love to hear stories of similar situations.

God Bless you all and thank you for your wonderful services!!!
Mac :)

[Mike Ferrara]

Mac,

Glad to hear things are going better. What did the new farrier do different?

[Mackenzie J.]

Hey Mike,

Sorry has taken me so long to reply...I'm so busy with school, 2 jobs, and the barn!! ;)

The first important thing the new farrier did was correct imbalances in both hind feet that the previous farrier hadn't. I knew there had always been something 'funky' about the right hind, especially when Rambo was due for shoes, and the new guy has started to fix that. There was some high/low imbalances; the medial side of the rh was high, the lateral low, and the direct opposite on the other hind, so essentially his feet were pointing the same direction.

On the right front, the high-heeled one, he beveled what I think was the quarters, back towards the heel, to take the pressure off the outside of the hoof wall, allowing it to expand and grow evenly instead of just heel. I'm not sure, but I think he did the opposite to the LF to encourage it to grow heel and not platter.

All of these changes I guess have caused his front feet to be loaded evenly; we're at 5 weeks and Rambo doesn't need shoes. His knees are even and so is his musculature. He's growing heel on the left front, and the RF isn't shooting off like it usually does. Generally, Rambo has become uncomfortable and due for a trim at 2 1/2 weeks; now he is at 5 weeks and is still even. I'm amazed, I didn't think that would ever be possible. The new guy had said that he'd like to see Rambo go six weeks as to imporove the depth of the sole because it has been trimmed so frequently in the past. It looks like we'll make it!

We've still got some work to do...and I'm sure this will be a struggle forever, but I'm greatly encouraged by this rapid progress. Rambo should be getting new shoes next week; I'd be happy to post about how it goes, if anyone's interested.

Thanks for everyone's interest and help. God Bless,
Mac :)