Why is this foot so bad?

[Jaye Perry]

Here is a foot that has plagued a few people, what would be the causation?

[Jaye Perry]

Here is a foot that has plagued a few people, what would be the causation?
sesamoids are not good. lateral view

[Jaye Perry]

lateral oblique, ouuccchhh!

[Jason Maki]

How is the Princess Barkin?
Jason

[Dave Purves]

She's great when you stay away from her mouth, the Princess is also a Rattlesnake.

Dave

[Ronald Aalders]

The negative palmar angle could have caused the arthrosis shown by the rads. But I bet you know more! :D

Tell us all about it!


Ronald Aalders

[Jaye Perry]

The negative palmar angle could have caused the arthrosis shown by the rads. But I bet you know more! :D
Ronald Aalders
These rads of a small jumper, in which I finally demanded. Had Negative Palmar Angle(NPA) when I obtained the account. I have been fighting this angulation for quite some time.
These types of changes are due to over-dorsiflexion of the fetlock. The changes usually ocurr at a young age. The angulation of this foot is better after rest for a month. Typical eitology with sesamoidtis.

These require a barshoe IMO. Along with the barshoe the application of hoof packing to help in the over- dorsiflexions of the fetlock and coffin joints. What caused the sclerosis? It's one of these questions:

[calshoer]

Dont we with we could all have rads on those from years prior to compare....
I bet though ,that she never developed any supportive cartilage in the first place. One can assume the arthrosis is from chronic stress/pulling in one or more sesamoidian ligaments. I hope when you say "bar shoe"you mean some type of frog supporting shoe. straight or heart?...I certainly would not use an egg bar on that, even with support material inside.
Though the back of the egg bar does help prevent the heels from sinking in the ground, it overloads the hoowall at the heels, prevents proper heel functioning, *possibly* reduces circulation, probably adds impact forces to the heel buttressesas the shoe heel hits the ground first as a lever, and in my experience all that exacerbates the frog prolapsing problem and heel pain in the long run .
And Equipack is not strong enough to overcome the forces coming from above sufficiently to align the bone column .

I prefer to more actively use the whole back of the foot especially the frog.
With a shoe set for eased breakover combined with a full wedge that extends more than usual back beyond the shoe heels, and a little frog support on the ground surface limited to the rear third of the frog, I can combine more mechanics to better help the problem. The pad and frog support out the back does what an eg bar does(preenting heels from sinking in the ground) while actvating and utilising the foot's own internal structures more to directly support the bone column. .
Heres one example.. If the frog was real sensitive I would not use the whole second pad, just the back inch or so to get the very rear of the frog into the ground more.
Of course I also might use a full EDSS if the owner was willing.
Just offering it for consideration....it has worked real well for me....Patty

[Jaye Perry]

Dont we with we could all have rads on those from years prior to compare....
I bet though ,that she never developed any supportive cartilage in the first place. One can assume the arthrosis is from chronic stress/pulling in one or more sesamoidian ligaments.
Yep the horse is a jumper and this type of stresses on the sesamoids are seen to often. I don't like to bet on unknown factors of anatomical development, i just deal with what's in front of me.





I hope when you say "bar shoe"you mean some type of frog supporting shoe. straight or heart?...I certainly would not use an egg bar on that, even with support material inside.
Though the back of the egg bar does help prevent the heels from sinking in the ground, it overloads the hoowall at the heels, prevents proper heel functioning, *possibly* reduces circulation, probably adds impact forces to the heel buttressesas the shoe heel hits the ground first as a lever, and in my experience all that exacerbates the frog prolapsing problem and heel pain in the long run .
I say bar shoe, eggbar shaped into a small diamond shape. At this shoeing I didn't have any stock for my capable help to make me a pair. So I over shod with a larger longer shoe.
In my experiences, sesamoiditis of the hind limbs respond to hind eggbars that are fit to the feet with only some bar extending beyond the heel buttressed in the middle of the foot. Not hanging all around and very long. With this application the toe is rolled and not pulled to far back due to the lack of sole depth. The heel of the bar shoe is slightly rolled and ground a "scrunch" laterad.


And Equipack is not strong enough to overcome the forces coming from above sufficiently to align the bone column .In this application a Luwex Knobby pad was used with Equipack. The ground surface knobbies will help in the over-dorsiflexion of the coffin joint and the Equipack will not be to hard for the lack of sole depth.
Empirical experiences are good for those cases in which one has no pictures for guidance, but in this case the rads show what one can and cannot do to the feet and bony column alignment.


I prefer to more actively use the whole back of the foot especially the frog.
With a shoe set for eased breakover combined with a full wedge that extends more than usual back beyond the shoe heels, and a little frog support on the ground surface limited to the rear third of the frog, I can combine more mechanics to better help the problem.
Caudal support to the frog and foot are necessary. The use of a wedge would increase the over-dorsiflexion mechanics that has caused the sesamoiditis in the first place. It's a jumper, jumping 4 feet.



The pad and frog support out the back does what an eg bar does(preenting heels from sinking in the ground) while actvating and utilising the foot's own internal structures more to directly support the bone column. .
We did the scenario the same except for the wedge, due to the fact we didn't have bar shoes to fit the horse.




Heres one example.. If the frog was real sensitive I would not use the whole second pad, just the back inch or so to get the very rear of the frog into the ground more.
Of course I also might use a full EDSS if the owner was willing.
Just offering it for consideration....it has worked real well for me....Patty
It does work, except for the wedge when sesamoids are involves. Patty's application works well on horses that have significant hock and stifle problems in which the horse is exhibiting the Negative Palmar Angles behind.

Here is why pulling the shoe back to far is not a good idea; lack of sole depth. From the point of P3 to the ground is about 1/4". The vertical depth gives one a false sense of security.

[Jaye Perry]

Also here is a hitch hiker on the the same leg in the pastern joint.

[Forgewizard]

Here is what I see:

[Jaye Perry]

Here is what I see:
Again- Wedging this horse, with these sesamoids, one will tear what is left of the lateral sesamoid apart and what is left of the suspensory attachments.. Wedging will increase the mechanics of DORSIFLEXION to OVER-DORSIFLEXION which caused the problems.

[Jaye Perry]

Sole- Yellow

P3 lateral wing - Red

Frog- Mauve

Wedging with a lack of sole depth will aggravate the wings of P3, especailly the lateral. Which are already, IMO have some Pedal Osteitis. Empirical guess thing.

Obtain, produce and stimulate some sole deph first and then start manipulation of the feet and legs.

[Forgewizard]

Jaye, sounds like a rock and hard place!

Are these folks still campaigning this horse? You say you feel these changes occurred at a young age- how old is this horse?
Sounds like it is time to retire her to flat work only.

I wonder though, really, if wedging this horse would be contraindicated. Since she is starting from a negative aspect, wedging her ought to bring her joints into a more normal aspect.

If she had this damage with normal joint angulation, then I can see how the wedging wouldn't be a good idea.

regards,
Kim

[Jaye Perry]

Jaye, sounds like a rock and hard place!That's were I work most everyday.

Are these folks still campaigning this horse? You say you feel these changes occurred at a young age- how old is this horse?
Sounds like it is time to retire her to flat work only.
Oh yeah, the horse is 8. They will retired the horse when no options are left. The horse is making money.



I wonder though, really, if wedging this horse would be contraindicated. Since she is starting from a negative aspect, wedging her ought to bring her joints into a more normal aspect.Seen this before. Wedges will help for about 2 weeks and then the ankles will swell badly.

If she had this damage with normal joint angulation, then I can see how the wedging wouldn't be a good idea.The horse has had these ankles since I've shod her. Before that ,who knows.