Please help...

[sumognat]

Hi,

I've posted on this forum once before about my horse's hooves. I started with a new farrier about 6 months ago, and I get the feeling that something is not quite right with my horse's two front hooves and it seems like things are going downhill with his long-toe/low heel condition.

Here's a link to the thread I wrote six months ago, with pictures of his hooves 1 week after he was shod by new farrier (his first time shoeing my horse): http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1103

I moved my horse over to my own barn in August, and after the first month or two that he was here, he started developing the cracks or seedy toe-like condition on all four hooves. I treated all his hooves with White Lightning to get rid of the infection, and his rear hooves have improved 100%. His front hooves have grown and do grow very little, and the chunks in the dorsal aspect of his wall have not grown much, if at all.

When he moved over to my barn, I decided to turn him out 24/7 with a clean stall with bedding that he has free access to. My horse stocks up easily and quite a bit even when he is in the stall overnight, so I figured it would be better for him to be able to roam around to increase circulation in his hooves. Previously, when he was at another barn, he was turned out during the day in a small sandy paddock and stalled at night. Now, the acre that he has access to has some grass and gets quite dewy in the early morning hours, so I have been putting Keratex Hoof Gel on his feet every other day to keep the seedy-toe from worsening.

I am concerned that his condition (LTLH) is not being addressed with the current shoeing package. I am also wondering if current imbalance in the hoof might be causing the seedy-toe issue. My horse is always shod every 5 weeks and he typically has little growth in the front hooves and adequate growth in the rear hooves. I am having my vet come out Tueday to take x-rays of my horse's front hooves, and I want my farrier to use these x-rays to rethink the shoeing protocol he's using. I think the breakover of the current shoe is set too far forward, which may be causing his toe to stretch.

Given the attached pictures, is my intuition about his current shoeing package incorrect? Because my horse has such little growth in his front hooves, my farrier thinks that his only option is to set the shoe back and cut back the toe, but I keep feeling that there must be something else we can do.

The attached pictures were taken today (a little over two weeks after his last shoeing) and he is due 1/27. My horse is sound, despite the current condition of his front hooves, and he is always sound after my farrier resets his shoes.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8951/ezrflateral3zl.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9824/ezrfdorsal8kv.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/422/ezlflateral0cw.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6920/ezlfdorsal6jl.jpg

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Nina

[calshoer]

Yes the foot is grossly distorted,more than it was back in August. It is no wonder your horse stocks up, his joints and tendons are under tremendous strain with the toes sticking out there like that.
Given the the feet GOT that way, the farrier aparently needs some help accomplishing what needs to be done safely.

If he tries to just set a shoe back but does not trim the foot to accomodate that he may well make your horse very sore.

Get the XRays, have the veterinarian map out an exacting blueprint for the farrier .I mean where to trim sole and where to NOT trim sole, how much heel he can or can not take off , where to place the breakover of the shoe relative to the bone , supplying the farrier some geographic references for measurements , marked on the foot for the Xrays like a BB set in a little notch cut in the the frog apex , telling the farrier where to begin the heel trimming so he insures the farrier leaves sole clarance in the front half of the foot, and standing over him at the shoeing if becessatry to insire all this gets done right. There are LOTS of parts to this that work together as a package.
One mistake such as paring the sole in the front jalf of the foot then setting the shoe over a thinned sole could spell disaster ,from sole pressure. There are certain ways to correct this SAFELY. And I doubt your farrier has the 'know how' since he allowed the feet to get his way in the first place. But something sure NEEDS to be changed. So inlist the help of the vet, or get another farrier if your farrier is not willing to accept some help.
The mark up I did on your opicture is NOT intended as the shoeing blueprint,you need Xrays for that. (but just for fun compare my drawing to the Xrays when they are done)
It is just to illustrate where things probably are inside the foot and where the distortion is. And the probable thin sole over the tip of the coffin bone and where it needs to be left alone.
Patty

[Rick Burten]

About the only thing I would do different than what Patty suggests is that I'd probably have the heels of the shoe extend further back than she indicates in her drawing.

[sumognat]

Thank you, Patty and Rick, for your advice.

Patty, in the marked up picture that you posted, the red text is blurred--what does it say?

The approach you warned about, paring too much sole from under the tip of the coffin bone, has been an issue that I've had before with other farriers. With those other farriers, my horse was extremely sore for 2-3 days and had to be left in his stall. I thought that we were on the right track with the new farrier since EZ didn't have those soreness issues, but the last couple of months have made me think otherwise, which is why I posted the pictures.

I will post pictures of the x-rays when I receive them, as well as the vet's suggestions.

Thanks, again.

Nina

[Phil Armitage]

Your still on the right track with your new farrier. Protecting the distal end of the coffin bone is always a good thing. Your horse's feet presents alot of challenges. Have you ever had X-Rays taken to see what is going on internaly? I know it is expensive but it is well worth it and can be used for future reference. There are other things that can cause this kind of distorted hoof wall, nutrition, healthy attachment of lamina, over hydration of the hoof and how long between shoeing. I can see these feet get out of shape very easy if they go too long between shoeing cycles or if the horse has a bought of mild laminitis because of over graining or too much green grass (just throwing that out there for something to think about). The horn tubules in the heels curl forward and the heels grow under run, combine that with over growth or weak attachment of the lamina you have a run away foot. I think the best thing to do is communicate with your farrier and work together on this, also recommend that he/her talk to us online or other farriers with more experience.

[Forgewizard]

Phil,

I don't think the distal end of this horse's P3 is protected at all! It is most likely hanging desperately close to the sole and well inside the shoe perimeter. In my book this hoof is severely distorted and on the verge of mechanical failure.

I also think that P3 is tilted downward at the wings more than Patty has illustrated.

I am actually fairly surprised that Patty has recommended having the VET tell the farrier how to trim and shoe this hoof and how to search for sole depth.

While I agree that radiographs will assist in placement of the shoe for this farrier, he obviously isn't able to visualize the interior of this hoof.

This much distortion is more a result of a shoe being fit too far forward than anything else. The owner reports the horse is shod every 5 weeks so an extended interval isn't the problem here.

I agree with Rick, I'd put more length of shoe heel than what Patty has illustrated, and I'd certainly erradicate that horribly stretched toe! Yes, it'd look ugly for a little while-(not that THIS hoof looks healthy by any stretch of the imagination) but the function and health of the hoof would return quickly and relief to the joints and tendons would be almost immediate.

Frog support pads would help redirect correct hoof growth too. Check out the "underrun heels" thread in the farriers helping farriers section

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22588#post22588post22588

Regards,
Kim

[sumognat]

Have you ever had X-Rays taken to see what is going on internaly? ...There are other things that can cause this kind of distorted hoof wall, nutrition, healthy attachment of lamina, over hydration of the hoof and how long between shoeing...I think the best thing to do is communicate with your farrier and work together on this, also recommend that he/her talk to us online or other farriers with more experience.

Phil.

The vet will be out tomorrow to take x-rays, so that way we can rethink the current shoeing package. I've thought about the other factors you mentioned, as well. My horse is fed mostly an alfalfa-orchard grass mix (16lbs/day); what little grain he gets (2 cups/day) is a high quality/high fiber pellet with low sugar. He gets a hoof supplement, too. The acre he is turned out on has some grass, but it's mostly weeds; it's definitely not "pasture" of any sort and he doesn't really graze out there--it's more like he picks through the weeds. I thought the seedy toe might point to a problem of too much moisture; quite a bit of dew ac***ulates in the early morning hours and dries by 12pm. I've been putting Keratex on his feet to help keep them dry. Since it's winter time down here, there has been alot less rain and it's been comparatively dry for the last few months.

For the last six months, EZ's been shod at *exactly* 5 weeks. I understand that I presented my farrier with a difficult case to begin with. If anything, I was thrilled to have someone come out consistently for the scheduled appointments and not make my horse sore after he was shod.

I've been happy with my farrier's level of professionalism; I don't want to "fire" him, but I want to make sure that my horse is getting the best possible foot care (and I don't mind paying for it either, as I am already paying $125 at each appointment). I have the feeling that my farrier is not quite as "internet savvy" as others on this board are, but I will mention the site to him. I can understand how saying "Something's not quite right here--here's what others are suggesting in order to correct the issue..." can put someone on the defensive, so I am hoping that he will be open to rethinking the shoeing protocol.

I'll present everyone's suggestions here, as well as my vet's, to my farrier--as to whether or not he is open-minded in that sense is something that remains to be seen. I guess I will find out at the next shoeing (1/27), or the next time I speak with him. :)

[sumognat]

Frog support pads would help redirect correct hoof growth too. Check out the "underrun heels" thread in the farriers helping farriers section

Kim,

Would frog support pads work on a horse with a flat-soles? We are still trying to grow out the quarters of his front hooves, which were ripped out six months ago when his shoes fell off because I couldn't get my old farrier to come out. I asked my current farrier if pads are something that would help my horse, but he said there wasn't enough space to put a pad in.

These pictures will give you a better idea of the shape of his frogs and soles:

Left Front:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/383/ezlfsolar5cc.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1234/ezlfml4ic.jpg

Right Front:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1473/ezrfsolar2mp.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6192/ezrfml6lr.jpg

[Rick Burten]

Make sure that when the vet takes the radiographs that a marker is placed in the frog , 3/8 inch back from the apex(tip), and a wire or other radio-opaque marker is affixed to the dorsal hoof wall with the top end of the wire placed at the coronary band. Hopefully your vet already knows this. Also, the rads should be taked with both feet on boards of equal height and with the camera shooting a flat beam at the foot.

What I see in the photos of the feet is:

1. Based on the shape of the shoes, the two feet have different shapes with the left front being narrower and longer than the right front.
2. The breakover in the shoe is all the way out at the end of the shoe and is exacerbating the negative changes in the hoof capsule.
3. The wall at the quarters, in both feet but more so in the left, is overgrowing the shoe. This will cause additional problems and contribute to the lack of integrity of the hoof wall. The shoe should be fit wider and the branches boxed and safed.
4. While the heels of the shoe are fit to the end of the heels of the hoof, because the hoof has morphed forward, the shoe is , in effect, too short at the heels.
5. Absent radiographs to precisely determine the breakover location, draw a line across the photo of the sole view of the shod foot from the top edge of the second nail hole on the inside of the shoe to the top edge of the second nail hole on the right side of the shoe. This is where I would set the breakover. It will be interesting to see on the radiographs where it is actually to be placed.
6. When setting a shoe back this far, it is absolutely necessary that the shoe is deep seated from quarter to quarter on the foot surface of the shoe. The addition of a rim pad(cut to half the width of the web of the shoe) may be necessary to insure that there is no sole pressure.
7. I would also consider using aluminum to reduce the torque on the foot and to afford more protection because the web of the shoe would be wider without adding weight. I'd probably use an aluminum Natural Balance shoe if aluminum was the way I decided to go. Actually, I'd probably use a steel NBS in the beginning and then as things improved, would probably switch to something like a St. Croix Eventer. Regardless of whether I chose steel or aluminum, I would ammend side clips to the shoes.
8. I wouldn't touch the sole, but the bars need some attention.
9. While it may be an optical illusion, it appears that the right side of both hooves is lower than the left side, with the right hoof showing this to a greater degree. This may be due to the wall being jammed or a trimming imbalance or neither(the camera angle may be contributing and in fact there is no imbalance).
10. I'd like to see the heels of the shoes altered such that they did not hang over the commissures at the back of the hoof. I think you'll find that there is enough heel present to actually lower the heels a bit. Fitting the shoe with the heels fit to the new heel location or even a bit longer, along with building the breakover into the shoe correctly, will really start to help this horse re-establish a correct hoof conformation.

In comparing the August photos with these photos, I am struck by the thought that your horse has probably had at least one and maybe more laminitis episodes. Each may have been minor, but ***ulatively they have caused the distortions that are now seen. Couple that with shoeing protocol that has been in effect, and it is not much of a leap to understand why the feet look the way they do.

[sumognat]

In comparing the August photos with these photos, I am struck by the thought that your horse has probably had at least one and maybe more laminitis episodes. Each may have been minor, but ***ulatively they have caused the distortions that are now seen.

Rick,

Thank you for your thoughts.

As far as I know, my horse has not had any laminitic episodes. I am fortunate to work at a home-based office, and I am able to see my horse everyday. I spend time with him everyday and I've never noticed any laminitic symptoms. Perhaps, they could have been so small that I would not even notice? My horse did have a minor colic back in the spring (April-before he moved to my barn) and then he came down with a severe reaction to vaccinations shortly after the colic (he had a high fever and edema). Other than those events, my horse has been well. I noticed that my horse developed a couple of minor rings/bulges on the medial aspect of one of his hooves in late summer, but I attributed them to growth rings; maybe they were from the previous sicknesses? What I have noticed, especially recently, is the drop from the top of the coronet band to the dorsal aspect of the hooves.

I am pretty sure that my farrier does not use NB; can he modify a straight bar shoe to have the kind of breakover needed?

Nina

[Forgewizard]

Sumognat asked:

Would frog support pads work on a horse with a flat-soles? We are still trying to grow out the quarters of his front hooves, which were ripped out six months ago when his shoes fell off because I couldn't get my old farrier to come out. I asked my current farrier if pads are something that would help my horse, but he said there wasn't enough space to put a pad in.
Yes, frog support pads WILL work on a flat soled horse- especially on a flat soled hoof!

I'd say your horse has gone beyond "flat" and is well on the way to convex!

See how snug the shoe edge is that rests against the sole? In one of the photos the shoe appears to actually be imbedded in the sole near the toe.

As Rick pointed out, you want a slight gap between the outer edge of the sole and the hoof surface of the shoe. Many farriers like this gap to be the thickness of a mathcbook cover or a credit card. This alllows the sole to flex upon weight bearing without compressing the cir***flex artery in an adverse way. When the shoe is nailed tightly against the sole in that manner there is NO room for sole flex, the Cirkumflex artery gets pinned between two hard surfaces and trouble for the hoof ensues.

Seating out a shoe is necessary whether a pad is used or not. IF using a full frog support pad on these type of hooves- you may also want to incorporate a rim pad- properly fitted as Rick noted to ensure that the pad doesn't compress the Cirkumflex artery. Eventhough a pad is softer than a shoe- if it gets nailed to the hoof it becomes an immovable object.

Your horse may not be showing signs of lameness because he may be equally sore in both or all his hooves! He may also be one of those tough horses that just endures and endures until things really go kerflooey!

Sumo,
your mention of seeing a dip in his coronet can actually an indicator of a laminitic bout. A horse can have laminitis and not founder.

Please review this thread for info on that condition:
http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22618#post22618post22618

[sumognat]

Hi,

I just received the x-rays of his front hooves. It's been a week since the x-rays were taken, and I have just heard from the vet that he has very slight rotation of the coffin bone. He suggested that I give the x-rays to a farrier that he recommended, and he said that the dish in the dorsal aspect of the hoof wall should straighten out in the next 6-9 months.

I had to scan them in using a printer, so they are not as clear as the actual x-ray.

LF:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4560/ezlf110064sr.jpg

RF:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/725/ezrf110069wh.jpg

The dorsal wall is hard to see, but it is dished and long, especially his right front hoof.

Nina

[Forgewizard]

Nina,

Those xrays make it perfectly clear why your horse is acting laminitic. The shoe is completely forward of the coffin bone and the bony columnhas no support at all.

The next shoeing it would be quite effective and necessary to set the shoe well behind the toe's leading edge. A frog support pad of some sort and sole aupport will be needed to get your horse's hoof to stop sinking throught he shoe.

Wedge pads in addition to the frog support may or may not be beneficial to your horse. I usually let the horse tell me by just taping the pad package to thebottom of his hoof and watching his reaction.

Lifting of the opposite hoof, licking chewing, resting of the hind legs is always taken by me to mean he is more comfy with that particular pad group.

Hope this helps!
Kim

[sumognat]

Kim,

Out of curiosity, why would one use a regular shoe (a straight bar shoe, or NB) with frog support and/or wedges rather than a heart bar shoe? Is this because a heart bar shoe inscreases the possibility that the heels will become crushed?

Thanks,

Nina

[Rick Burten]

Kim,

Out of curiosity, why would one use a regular shoe (a straight bar shoe, or NB) with frog support and/or wedges rather than a heart bar shoe? Is this because a heart bar shoe inscreases the possibility that the heels will become crushed?

Obviously I'm not Kim. Nonetheless, the heart bar shoe is considered to be one of the technically most difficult shoes to fabricate and, especially, apply correctly.

Additionally, unless you are going to make a wedged heel heart bar shoe(now theres a forging exercise that might be valuable) you are going to have to add wedges to the package and shims to the tongue of the shoe in order to get the desired effect. It is just as effective and perhaps somewhat more efficient to use an open heel shoe and a wedge pad(s) with the bottom pad having a "frog engagement plate"(a new descriptive term I just coined, I think) and any additional supporting material under the pad. Or, absent the need for either a pad ,a wedge pad/pads, but finding it necessary to still support the structures in the back of the hoof, one could use an open heeled or bar shoe and add EquiPak as needed.

Additionally, if one is using the EDSS protocol, then adjustments for heel height and frog support can be made without having to remove the shoe to accomplish the task(s).

[Mattfarrier]

In my humble opinion a heart bar shoe with a horse in this condition would cause him severe discomfort. He has a very low heel and a bulbous frog and i think the amount of load applied to the frog would be intolerable.
I don't use pads for this sort of thing, (just me, don't like 'em, but there you go, everyone is different). I would make a wide webbed, graduated, open heeled shoe from concave(start with 7/8 x 1/2 and draw the toe to about 3/16, this also spreads the section for solar protection),back it right up under the toe(the inner web of this shoe would probably be back against the apex of the frog in this extreme case) and fill the foot to ground level with equipak.
That would be my plan of attack, the least invasive route IMO

Oh by the way guys, is that an average standard for x- rays over there?
Over here,if a vet presented me with radiographs like that, i would ask if they could be re-taken with the shoe removed and a frog marker. You can't see the distal tip of PIII or the point of frog, so really not very helpful at all. Just my opinion, please put me back in my place if i'm talking out of turn.


Regards,
Matt

[sumognat]

Thank you, Rick and Matt.

I asked about the keg shoe vs. heart bar shoe because I wanted to be prepared if the new farrier recommends a heart bar shoe. I didn't know if the heart bar shoe would be appropriate for my horse, so I thought it best to know if it is an appropriate shoe (and why or why not).

Matt, I had trouble deciding whether or not I trusted my vet to be able to take helpful x-rays for the farrier. When the vet was here, I asked him to put a frog marker, and he did. Of course, the clip is obstructing it, so that's why you can't see the marker. I will ask the new farrier if he wants x-rays retaken without shoes. Initially, I thought about having the shoes pulled, but then my current farrier would have to come out to reset them. And, well, I didn't want to pay for another reset, unless it's one that is going to help my horse. Unfortunately, my horse can't go without shoes, so letting him sit around barefoot until my new farrier could get out wasn't an option either. The only other option would have been to haul my horse up to a specialty clinic, have digital x-rays taken, and then schedule the clinic's farrier to be there are the same time to reset the shoes according to the vet's prescription. Since the laminitic changes were slight, I thought I'd be fine with my local vet. Hopefully, the new farrier will be able to make out the x-rays as best he can, but if he can't then I'll be happy to have them retaken sans shoes. You are right, though, they are not as helpful as they could be.

Nina

[cowboy_bc]

Hi all,

A good example of how not to take x rays. No frog or wall marker and not taken square but a great x ray of the shoes. They must have been taken by one of our local vets.

Kevin

[calshoer]

To minimize cost for my clients when I request hoof balance Xrays (in non emergency situations), I tell them to schedule the vet visit until just a day or two prior to the regular shoeing. Then the shoes can be pulled if necesary for the radiographs and the vet or owner can simply apply a temporary hoof protection such as taped on dense foam or boots or footwraos or whatever to tide thehorse over until iget there. Usually there is no need to pull the shoes for just hoof balance assessment, and I like to see the relationship of the bones with the shoe (and pads if present) , to make necesary adjustments. But in cases such as shoes with clips, the clips can obscure the end of the bone so they need to come off.
If I have the shoes left on for the films, and they have pads, there are other structures in the shoeing besides the frog apex I can to use for reference to measure later. Ican pick a nail clinch, marked with a bb, or just use the end of the shoe and make sure I draw a felt tip marker line across the shoe and up the sides of the foot before I pull the shoe off.

And I agree, the radiograph shown has too much missing information to be very useful for the farriers purpose. It is oblique(at an angle)so the sole thickness can not be deterimined, and the clips obscure some of the view. As well, if the horse was not standing on TWO equal height blocks with both legs square and equally weight bearing, it is impossible to assess coffin joint alignment.I would have asked for another and I don't think it is out of line to do so .You are paying for something the farrier needs to be done accurately, able to get get useful information to measure out everything for the shoeing.
Patty

[calshoer]

About the only thing I would do different than what Patty suggests is that I'd probably have the heels of the shoe extend further back than she indicates in her drawing.
Agreed, (and agree with Kim on that same point)
It was only intended to be a sketch ,it was a very "quickie" drawing and in doing it I missed the heels comletely. I need a good spanking. Good thing I said not to use the sketch as the actual blueprint.... :o

If I were shoeing this horse the heels of the actual shoe would indeed extend a bit beyond the heel buttresses, (probably about 1/4", and a plain full wedge pad would extend even beyond the shoe heels. I like to do these kind of horses that way (pad beyond back of shoe) because the full plain wedge pad offers gentle "sling" support to the frog (unlike a solid metal bar pushing up on it ).
Then, if they can tolerate a little more, (a little experimenting to dial them in for maximum comfort) I screw on a short piece of extra pad across the very back of the pad on the ground surface between the shoe heels. Thereby only adding support to the last inch or so of frog where it is not sensitive.
Patty

[Red Amor]

Just like to offer my services there Pat:) if a may he he he

LOOK OUT!! um orf:)

[Forgewizard]

Patty posted:

...Thereby only adding support to the last inch or so of frog where it is not sensitive.
Patty Please explain this for me?

What part of the frog is insensitive?

I am aware of the frog corium which manufactures the keratinous tissue which contacts the ground. This opaque, rubbery material is insensitive- but it is produced by underlying tissue that to my knowledge is full of nerves and blood vessels- ie. sensitive tissue.

Regards,
Kim

[calshoer]

Please explain this for me?

What part of the frog is insensitive?

I am aware of the frog corium which manufactures the keratinous tissue which contacts the ground. This opaque, rubbery material is insensitive- but it is produced by underlying tissue that to my knowledge is full of nerves and blood vessels- ie. sensitive tissue.

Regards,
KimKim,

Yes there are nerves under the frog, But you must understand that support is not the same as pressure. Therein lies the diffference.The frog is designed to be a support structure and if it were not, then all brefot horses would grow foot beyond the frogs so the frogs would be off theground. They are not.They are usually on the ground, quite comfortably .

Often the frog will hooftest sore over the center, because that is located under under the impar ligament and navicular bone.
In a weak foot, that has a broken back cofin joint due to lack of cartilage inside, those structures as well as the coffin joint, can be the most sore.
But often those same horses will easily tolerate support under the very rear inch or so of frog. That is the location of most of the frog callousing anyway, it build up there for good reason and if you notice is usually the last part to shed off.
The proprioceptors are located in that region of the foot, above the back of the frog.
Engaging those with better contact to the ground actually HELPS the horse who is sore in the impar ligament area to reach out and land heel first, thereby sparing the sore impar ligament, cofffin joint and navicular bone from further trauma due to a toe first landing.

Supporting the frog back there also helps move the distal end of P2 forward in a 'broken back' the coffin joint, thereby aligning the joint better.

The support is placed well behind the navicular structures so there is nothing pushing up into them.

I hooftest them before adding any frog support .
I also might just tape on a bit of plastic here and there and see how they stand and move on it.
You would be sirprised how many horses who are just 'not quite right' will move so much better with a little tab of added plastic under the rear inch of frog. It's not a lot. Maybe an eigth inch thick, just even with or barely past the shoe.
Patty

[sumognat]

For those of you interested, I had a new farrier out to look at my horse and this is what we came up with.

He pulled the front shoes and rasped the toe back a bit. We had trouble deciding what to do as far as shoeing was concerned. EZ's sole is now convex, so he didn't think putting on a pad & shoe (even with the addition of a rim pad) would be a good idea. He thought it would be best to wait a week, apply support to the whole bottom of the hoof with a closed cell foam saddle pad that I had laying around, and hope that the bony column shifts back up into the hoof capsule. (I have been applying styrofoam pads for the last week).

He will be out in a week to check on EZ again.

Here are some shots of his soles from today (before the wall was rasped back a bit):

LF:

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/623/ezlfsolar8ba.jpg

RF:

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/2041/ezrfsolar3zz.jpg

Nina

[caballus]

Nina ... is the second photo after the trim?

[calshoer]

I hope he dealt with those overgrown badly underrun HEELS. That could be part of your issue.
That appears to be a very shoeable foot, for an experienced farrier. I don't see what all the difficulty is. Do you have a current lateral Xray?
Patty

[Forgewizard]

Nina,

It looks like that hoof has a severe white line infection. I too am curious if the second photo is indicative of the "trimmed" hoof. if it is- I am glad he's coming back soon!

I agree with Patty, that hoof is totally shoeable for someone with the right knowledge.

I do like your idea about using the neoprene padding, let us know how it holds up. But most any of the two part hoof putties will have the same effect and you can still use your saddle pad! ;) One thing I worry about regarding using the neoprene pad over theentire sole verses a frog support pad of some type- is that since the hoof wall integrity is alreadu on the losing end of the battle to support this horse- by NOT supporting the hoof centrally(via frog support) yo may run the risk of further loss of integrity.

I'd strongly suggest chasing and getting rid of those black cavities and pockets of infection along the white line and hoof wall areas. Besides the imbalances in the hoof- you may find these cavities are contributing a LOT to the collapse of the hoof.

Regards,
Kim

[sumognat]

Gwen, Patty, and Kim,

He may have trimmmed the foot some more after I took the RF photo, and, obviously, the LF had not been trimmed yet. I apologize for the confusion. When I rewrap the duct tape tomorrow, I will take pics again and repost them.

The dilemma with shoeing the foot was that there was no way to have just a shoe and a pad. His frog is prolapsed, so there is no way to fit a shoe with a pad. If he had a pad on, then the sole of the foot would be weightbearing on the pad. Basically, my horse is standing on his sole and frog; there is very little wall that is actually weightbearing.

Before he came out, I had told him I was interested in shoeing him with NB (if he could), but he pointed out that the webbing of the shoe would cause sole pressure under the tip of the P3, if we put that shoe on today. This made sense because I know the shoe is placed just ahead of the P3. If my understanding is incorrect, then please correct me. :)

I did suggest the use of a rim pad with a full pad, and he put one together to see if it would work. There was such little clearance, even with the addition of impression material and a rim pad, that EZ would still be putting pressure at the tip of the P3. Rather than risking that kind of pain, we decided to wait a week to see if the sole would go back into the hoof capsule a bit. If so, we would apply a shoe at that point.

If you have other opinions or suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them! This farrier seems open to my suggestions, so I can pass your's along to him.

Patty - The only lateral x-rays I have are the ones posted above.

Kim - I was thinking of adding some additional styrofoam under the rear 2/3 of the frog to add more support. I agree with your suggestion about needing more support there. Now that the shoes are off, I can work on drying out those infected areas.

Thanks,

Nina