I could use a little help

[Heavy_Horses]

Hello all. I have a big decision to make in the next few months and I'm looking for some advice or words of wisdom.

I don't want to go into too many boring details, but this is the brake down:

#1. First of all, I am a former Marine and I am VERY DRIVEN.

#2. Currently own my own business (for 5 years) and my flame is out. No desire to keep going with it because I'm not interested in the work anymore. Its still making a little money, I'm just too interested in farrier work and horses to keep my head in the game.

#3. I was enrolled in a short shoeing school and was to be going right now but I broke my leg on Nov. 1st and had to stall until this spring.

#4. I have a VERY experienced farrier who works on my horses and who has taken me under his wing, willing to teach me everything he knows. He has worked with our vet (who is also my close friend and wants to teach me everything he knows regarding lower legs and feet) for the last 13 years. He is extremely professional, knowledgeable in all types of shoeing. I have LOTS of very experienced people in place to help me achieve my goals as a farrier.

#5. My wife recently finished law school (after being an engineer for a while), so I really wanted to try a new career when she finished law school...

So the time has sorta come around and HERE IS THE KICKER:

A close friend of mine (a VERY successful guy and NOT in the horse industry) is opening a new business. He has asked me if I'd be interested in being the president of the new company. The job comes with a $90k salary. I'm sure anyone out there would say "hell yea" but I think it would be miserable in the long haul. It would obviously be an office job and that seems like a prison sentence to me, but I cant stop thinking of the $90k. Yeah, money is nice, but I THINK I'd rather do something I love and that's working with animals and being outdoors.

All I've been doing for the last 6 months is learning anything I can about becoming a farrier, reading, watching, working on my blacksmithing skills, getting ready for my school and getting ready to turn up the heat with taking the next steps in becoming a farrier. Then I brake my leg, and then I'm hit with this "other" job opportunity.

All I'd like to know is: if I'm really driven, can I make a reasonable income being a farrier? What is a realistic annual income starting out? Am I being ****** not to take this "other" job?

Any advice or wisdom would be GREATLY appreciated.....

Morgan

[Gary Hill]

Take the 90K job and learn shoeing on the side. It takes quite a few years to become and build a successful shoeing business that can bring in the money you're being offered now. Start shoeing full time once you've stockpiled all that money so you can get though the lean years of building a cliental and learning, which never stops ! Best of Luck to you! Gary

[Phil Armitage]

I can tell you this, it will take you at least 3 - 4 years to start grossing half that much. You will get injured, ache like hell in your back, arms, wrists, legs and other parts of the body that you didnt even know existed, sometimes you will swear your becomeing crippled. With all that said, I think it is worth it, after awhile your mind and body can't function unless your shoeing and if you really have it bad you don't enjoy takeing time off. :D

Thanks for serving and protecting our freedom. I did 4 years Active in the USAF and 18 in the Air National Gaurd.

[Wannabeee]

Gary's advice is good and you can buy a extra horse of your own to practice on while your in prison(office work),and make sure you like the everyday part of shoeing as much as the dream of it. Scott

[cordell_rogers]

I am doing exactly what Gary recommends. I work full-time in another job and am a hobby-farrier. I do my own and a few friends' horses. Having another job makes it easy to cherry pick the best jobs and walk away from anything dangerous/undesirable. The limited volume is enough to keep you strong/fit without wearing out your body prematurely.

To stay proficient, I read a lot of horseshoeing books, watch videos, attend clinics, and will call an experienced farrier whenever I feel like I am in over my head.

I enjoy my lucrative full-time job, but my heart is in riding and hoofcare. A lot of farriers on this site will resent me for making it harder on them by competing against them, but if they feel threatened by my weak skills and tiny client base, then they have bigger problems.

[Just Shoe It]

Take the 90K job....

You shouldn't have to ask.

[Gary_Miller]

With your wife now out of law school and working and you knowing that you won't like the office environment. And being former Marine you know what it like to work for someone else and have to take orders.
I say presue the Farrier Business. If you take the other job you won't be able to go to school, you will get locked into the job and won't have the time needed to properly ride and apprenticeship with you mentor. And with your wifes job you probably don't need the money.
Go to school, serve a full time apprenticeship while building up your own client base. And best of all do something you like to do.


Gary

[Dave Purves]

The question is: Can you and your family survive if you're not bringing home any money? Can your wife sustain your family for a few years? Most of us that shoe full time right now, were shoeing part-time (building a business), and working a full time job to pay the bills. With your wife being a lawyer, you may be in a better situation. In any event, unless you can go on the road, right away, follow the show circuits, and ride with the guys that are knocking down $300,000-$400,000 a year gross shoeing horses, then it will take you a few years to break the $40,000 mark. Unless you live in a high dollar horse population and can work with/for someone making that kind of money at home. In all probablility after 5 or 6 years with an average business at average prices you should be making $60,000 to $80,000 annually gross. That means $50,000-$70,000 take home. That's average, if you have the will and the drive to do the big money horses the world is your oyster if you can get in? And you have to know the right people, and have the skill to make it happen.

My advice is do what makes you happy, and at the same time, allows your family to sustain a nice comfortable way of life.

good luck
Dave

[caballus]

Follow your heart. Everyone is given a gift. If one doesn't pursue that gift and do what is given as a heart's desire, one ends up being a tired, bitter, prematurely old human. Life is too short and too precious to build up regrets.

--Gwen

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Do whatever makes you happy. Life's too damn short to do anything other than exactly what makes you excited about doing it and wanting more.

"Far better to dare a mighty thing, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered with failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat..." -T. Roosevelt

[Jim Sweeney]

Thats an easy one, I would shoe anything before I went into buisness with a "close " friend.

[Forgewizard]

I'd let your "Friend" run his NEW successful business venture for a few years before I jumped into a controlling seat of an unproven big money maker.

I go along with "Life's too short to be miserable"! Follow your heart! The rest of you and yours will be better off for it!

Just my two cents!
Kim

[T.L. Buck]

I too agree, that if you can sustain your livelyhood while you learn and build a business, I would definately go after your heartstrings. I couldn't do anything else. I took a couple of years to get the client base under control and the rest is history. I don't make the high end but I am doing what I love and I do reap the profits.
~ Buck

[Red Amor]

Dont make me come over there Morgan ;)

take the 90k

[tbloomer]

I've had the 90k job and been in prison . . . about the same level of enjoyment. You get one shot at life. Do something you truely enjoy. CARPE DIEM!!!

[T. Wm. HALL]

Morgan,
This is surely one of the best questions I have seen on here in a while. Everyone has pretty much touched upon which way they would go. I would personally lean along the lines of NOT stressing a personal relationship, by working for your friend. I don't know to what degree your friendship is, but when one goes, they both can go at the same time.
My first thoughts was to go with your heart, as Gwen brought up. I had to make a cold plunge into shoeing full time from part time, because I got burnt out on the uncertainty of the full time job I had, which were out of my control. While I had the full-time career job, and shoeing part-time, I was able to acquire a nice set of tools, and not get burnt out doing one particular thing. With 90K per year and a significant other bringing home good pay also....I selfishly picture a nice Stonewell body set up on a brand new truck, packed full of 'toys'! And the option to pick and choose clients based on your 'choice'. ;)
I am not as established in my business as most you see on here, but right now the 'prison' I am seeing is being super slow because of 2 feet of snow, wishing I had a 'regular' job to go to.
I would gradually chalk up all the available information from your resources, and follow what will work best for YOU! Set down and discuss this with your wife, and get her input and assessment of the situation if you haven't already.
Either way I wish you the best of luck!

Trevor

[Phantom Farrier]

Go for it! I can't imagine spending my energy doing anything other than shoeing horses. I'll never be rich but my life is rich and full in other ways.

Phantom :)

[Heavy_Horses]

I truly appreciate all of the help and advice from everyone. This is going to be a hard choice to make but I think I'm going to keep my small business running part time and start moving on my farrier career.

I've already got almost all of my tools (and a full set of blacksmithing tools), and I have a great truck already. I have PERFECT resources in place (the farrier and my vet) to help me learn and are willing to help me with anything. (I thought these things are some of the hardest things to get in place)

horseshoe1 and Forgewizard, you both brought up great points, do I really want to work (destroy) for a "close friend"? I don't think so.

You guys have helped me make a key decision in my life. My wife just wants me to do what makes me happy (as long as I make some money ;-)) and I think that's what I'm going to do.

I want to thank you all (even the ones that said take the $90k) for the help, I really appreciate it!

Morgan

[John Barney]

You can't buy happiness. You have to like people( all types) but love horses. If you don't it will be tough to make it. Above all you can't get angry or show fear to the horse, they know more than alot of people think. Good luck .

JB

[Phil Armitage]

Morgan promise yourself that you will have the final say as to which horses you will or won't get under and work at your pace. Stay safe and good luck. It is a life long journy and a great way of life. I am very happy, wish I started this trade earlier in life.

[Heavy_Horses]

Thanks Phil. I'm 32 and my mom died 8 years ago at the ripe old age of 45. Life is short and I always try to do what makes me happy.

The Farrier trade has always interested me because horses have been in and out of my life for a big chunk of it and I'm a pretty good blacksmith. I'm very crafty with metal work and "seeing things in 3 dimensions" (that's what my mentor always tells me "you have to be able to see a horse's hoof in 3 dimensions")... I don't full understand that yet but I'm on my way.

I've ran a fairly successful business for the last 5 years and I seem to be very good at business. Accounting, scheduling, organization, meeting goals, and lastly, I'm VERY good with people (and horses for that matter). I wake up early, go to bed early and work VERY hard at everything I do, I'm just driven and I don't need motivation to do anything, I guess I just like to work my a!@ off all the time (maybe a little ****** in there too ;-)).

I think my biggest fear is screwing up someone's horse so I definitely will not do anything outside of my knowledge base. That's what my mentor is for. I'll definitely take to long slow road and learn as much as possible before touching someone else's horse. I don't think I could live with myself is I messed up a horses foot.

Yesterday I was full of doubt and didn't know what I was doing with all of this stuff. Sitting here with a broken leg makes you go nuts, but after I left the doctor and he told me just 2 more weeks with these pins and I can get into a cast (its been only 8 weeks and I THOUGHT it was going to be 16 weeks) can motivate anyone. THEN I turned on my computer and all of you had so many things to say, some good and some bad, but they all made me think.

I think I'll be a farrier dammit.

- Morgan

[Bill Adams]

Morgan,
You have discribed an unbelievable oppertunity to enter the Farriery business with the abilities, experence, mentors, resources and disire you already have. Do you think you would love the 90k job? It's a one word awnser. You have a oppertunity to do arts and crafts and play with horses and even make a good living. Read (while your leg heals) Six Figure Horseshoeing by Doug Buttler.
Have your wife sue somebody because you broke your leg, that should buy the new truck.
Thank you for your service, and Merry Christmas.
Bill

[Heavy_Horses]

Hey Bill. Unfortunately nobody is to blame about my leg but me. I fell off of one of my own horses and actually did this to myself. She is a big shire mare (over 18hh) (that's my little disclaimer so I don't look like a wimp, "hey, she's huge"). It was a pretty uneventful accident, I just jumped off and my bone came out.... Looked pretty bad, but felt REALLY bad..... Doctor said its a million dollar fall and probably couldn't repeat it if I tried. My feet were only 3-4 feet off the ground (but she was in a slow trot).

Thanks for the note!

oh, yeah, anyone looking for a 90k job in the Houston area? its behind a desk and you'll never see outside again................ let me know, i can point you in the right direction....... ;-)

Morgan

[Gary Hill]

Morgan you didn't say you were in Texas! And being in Houston, lots of work there , alittle more humitiy than E. Tex and we have enough! Maybe you can hook up with Tom and he can stear you correctly, if ya ask nice! Good Luck! Gary

[Red Amor]

Gday Morgo
Mate , good on ya , I knew youd come through in the end ;)

best of luck ;)

[cowboy_bc]

Hi all,

That's a funny thing how you broke your leg so easily. I on the other hand rode bulls and bare back horses and have flown of in every conceivable way and had at least 3 horses fall on me and I never hurt much more than after a bad day of shoeing. Now motorcycles are a differant matter.

Kevin

[Heavy_Horses]

Yeah, I thought I was pretty tough until this little episode. Skydiver, jumped off roofs, kicked, stepped on, electrocuted by my welding machine, miss my mark on the anvil and hit my thumb REAL HARD..... You get the picture.

Fall wrong off of a gentle horse and wham, in the chair for a few months.... Sucks!

Just be careful out there. I'm just now realizing that I'm not made of steel.

When I fell off and realized what happened, it took a few minutes for it to sink in. "what? Me? No way".... Yeah right, then the pain kicked in full throttle. Then the blood from my bone sticking out started filling up my boot. Reality set in REAL FAST.

I heard my wife shout from the barn "are you ok?".... NO, CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Morgan

[Gary Hill]

So you are going to turn down the 90k job to risk injury shoeing? If you don't want the job maybe you could let me in on what it is, because no matter how much I like shoeing, after 28 years the body starts to take a toil! Desk job looks good to me now, just wish I had the opportunity and education! I'm always at the airport when my bus comes in! Merry Christmas to you and yours! Gary

[Bill Adams]

Hey Bill. Unfortunately nobody is to blame about my leg but me. I fell off of one of my own horses and actually did this to myself.
Morgan

I think this is a blatant case of Farrier Falt. Each of the last several Farriers who worked on her should pay big time. None of this makes any sence at all which is why you should be able to win in court.
Welcome aboard,
Bill

[ranchoblanco]

Morgan

I just got out of the Marine Corps in May of this year so let me reiterate the reasons why i got out, why i chose this profession, and comparisons.

- Your friend offering that job can be compared to the career jammer (career planner) offering you a reenlistment bonus of 30 days leave, choice of duty station, enlistment bonus, and a box of MRE's. Sounds good but what about the next four years.

- This job your offered what rank would you be compared to? A salty Corporal, Crusty Gunny, or a boot Lt.? Would you be micromanaged, how many superiors?

- Wearing a suit everyday would be like wearing dress alpha's, with spit shined chloroframs, and 0700 inspections not to forget the high and tight, low reg, or horseshoe haircuts and a fresh shave- remember those days?

- I thought i'd throw my 2 cents in since im a brainwashed field marine who still has boot camp flashbacks, and still hums cadences when i walk. I'm not really that motivated but i hope you remember all the reasons why you got out of the Marine Corps, and the feel of independence.

Semper Fi brother
Mike White

[Heavy_Horses]

Excellent points Mike.

I've completely ended that idea of taking that "job". I got out of the Corps in 1997, since then, I've either been a full time athlete (did Ironman Triathlon's for a few years) or owned my own business. I think I'm too much of a mustang now. I don't think I could be caged up in an office.

"career jammer", "MRE's", "reenlistment bonus".... Too funny.... These are words that I removed from my vocabulary back in July of 1997 ;-)

Going in the Marines was a challenge and I'm glad I did it, but they can have it..... I gave the government a part of me and I did my duty. Wasn't too fun though. I didn't think the physical part was very tough, just the mental part. Not getting to do what you wanted to do when you wanted to.... I was a grunt. And you?

[Gary_Miller]

Mike and Morgan, you guys make me laugh. I recently 2002 retired from the Air Force (MSgt/E-7). Took a good job $34K and moved was on the job six months they did away with my position. Bounce around a couple of other jobs then decided to go to school instead. Went and got a Drafting and an Geograpic Information Systems degree. Took a class while at school on how to shoe horses and thats where my focus has been ever since.

What made me laugh is a couple of months ago a civilan postioin opened up dooing the same thing on the same base where I was for 19yrs while in the military. It was very tempting to apply as I know I would of for sure gotten the job. Then I sat back and thought, what I would be doing (office job), who I would be working for (young E-6 or E-7, or maybe a LT or Capt), the rest of my life.

Then I sat back a thought awhile and said now way. Funny thing was I always thought that I would take that job if it opened up. But I guess things change once you have time to think.

My mentor tried to talk me out of shoeing. I finaly told him that I was gooing to be a horseshoer. And I have not looked at doing anything since.

For those who think they would like to change what your doing for and office job. Your are nuts, and would get nutter in the office. You have one of if not the best job in the world, I know it can and has been hard on some of your bodies but every job out there takes its toil sooner or latter. But you can't always do your own thing.

When you think aboout taking a real Job (by this I mean one where you work for someone else on thier terms) rember this, you won't schedule so you can be to your kids school play, concert or just take time off for them. You will always be a slave to the office, and will have to be there each day M-F, 7 to 5 with two 15 min brakes and a 1/2 off the clock lunch. You are a slave to the boss and the office. They will run your life. Forget being able to have nice friendy chats with clients and other shoers it won't happen it all busness.

Like I say IMO "This is the best job in the world."

Gary

[Wannabeee]

Thank you Gary that started my day off great,and your right. Scott

[Julie Plaster]

Morgan

-still hums cadences when i walk.
- and the feel of independence.

Semper Fi brother
Mike White

Wow, did that one bring back memories... LOL

I also gave the government a hitch in the US Navy. (For the record, The Marines do have the best looking dress uniform!!) I still hum cadence, when I walk sometimes.

Listening for cadence comes in handy when you hear a horse travel on concrete. If they are "off" just a bit, the sound becomes a softer tone on the "off" foot. Close your eyes and just listen sometime.

Did the Navy hitch, finished up the business degree, did the corp. thing for a few years. "They" all thought I was crazy. At 32, went to shoeing school. That was a start. Even with the ups and downs & aches and pains. That was the begining to the happiest journey I've ever been on. Sincerely, right here is one of the best resources that is a part of that. There are so many here that have a real passion for this work.

New business venture of your friends...

There may be a time this friend will want to come ride with you shoeing to escape the challenges of his business venture world.

Talk to your family, check with the guy upstairs, and trust your gut. You'll make the right decision.


Julie :-)

[flyingbar3]

Just my thought--I'm going to leave the office to shoe horses too, one of the reasons being that having to ask someone else's (the boss) permission for each hour of time you need out for your "real" life (the quotes are the boss's, not mine) is like having to ask permission to pee.

D*mn the torpedoes!! :D

[Forgewizard]

Yeah, that reminds me of my last so called "real" job. You know, one where you punch a time clock?

Well, the mgr of our dept. actually told me on a Friday, that I had NO right to schedule things to do on my days off - because I might have to get called in to work overtime! That I would have to put in for a vacation request for approval to keep the weekend "off" (which weekends weren't normal workdays anyway)!

Needless to say I ended my employment with them that folowing Monday!

Now although I have several "bosses" - the scheduling is done pretty much on my terms.

Regards,
Kim

[Gary_Miller]

Now although I have several "bosses" - the scheduling is done pretty much on my terms.
I only have one "Boss" (my wife excluded) and thats me. Everyone else are my customers and there is a big diffrence.

Gary