Long Toe-Low Heel Syndrome HELP!

[RodeoQueen777]

Hi,
I have a 7 year old Quarter Horse that has long toe-low heel, he has had it ever since I can remember. I bought him when he was 4 years old and I compete in barrel racing, pole bending and halter with him. He goes lame alot (he is lame as I speak :( ). I got a new farrier and he finds absesses almost everytime he shoes this horse. The horse is worked 5 days a week or more. I took him to the vet and he said to put shoes on him (he is still going lame though) so it would not wear down the heel so much. Someone told me that I might need to sell him, :( but I don't want to do that. It makes it really hard when I plan for a race for 2 month then the week before our run he goes lame. I will do almost anything to make him not go lame so I can keep running him. Is there anything I can do? Please help and God bless!

[mwmyersdvm]

The chronic abscessing is usually due to laminar tears from the imbalance.

You need diagnostic nerve blocks, diagnostic radiographs, and radiographs taken for balance for this horse. A venogram may even be in order here. If your veterinarian is concerned about this horse's heels and makes no mention of his breakover and no other hoof parameters, he may need some assistance to handle this case. Elongated toes and underrun heels can be very difficult to deal with and are often a constant management problem.

I can be reached through the consulting area of this site for detailed assistance. You will need cooperation from your veterinarian and farrier with me if we are to work together on this case.

[RodeoQueen777]

Thank you very much!

I have a few questions though... what is diagnostic nerve blocks? An also what is a venogram? Also is this something that can be fixed, so he can go on with his barrel racing and pole bending well into his teens? If any of you want I could post pictures of his feet if it would be any help.

Thanks again!

[kmkpaints]

RodeoQueen
I am not a farrier but have just went through this with my yearling filly... I have some info posted on her page at http://www.kmkpainthorses.com/suzyfeet.htm

The good people here helped me alot and alot of the suggestions were used ..She is appx 95% sound after only being shod this way for two weeks. I am hopeful for a full recovery. She is running and bucking and playing now for the first time in months.

However, we did a FULL exam on her including blocks,xrays etc. If you dont have a specialist looking at her I would suggest you find one that deals with legs ALOT. I am using a vet that does a TON of racehorses....
Lori

[Rick Burten]

[QUOTE=RodeoQueen777]
>I have a 7 year old Quarter Horse that has long toe-low heel, he has had it ever since I can remember.

During all this time, what has been done to attempt to remediate the problem?

>I bought him when he was 4 years old and I compete in barrel racing, pole bending and halter with him. He goes lame alot (he is lame as I speak :( ).

On going(chronic) lameness should have been a red flag a long time ago to get the problem(s) correctly diagnosed and remediation undertaken.


>I got a new farrier and he finds absesses almost everytime he shoes this horse.

The horse is talking, no one, including the farrier, is listening.

>The horse is worked 5 days a week or more.

Time to stop working him until and unless the problems are resolved.

> I took him to the vet and he said to put shoes on him (he is still going lame though) so it would not wear down the heel so much.

So all this time(up until now) you have been training and campaigning this horse barefoot? Even though you realized/recognized that there was/is a problem?

>Someone told me that I might need to sell him, :(

Who is this "someone"? What are their 'bona fides' when it comes to offering advise and opinion regarding your or anyone else's horse(s)?

>but I don't want to do that.

So, don't.

> It makes it really hard when I plan for a race for 2 month then the week before our run he goes lame.

You can plan two weeks out, two months out, or two years out. It will make not a bit of difference until and unless you identify the problems and get them resolved.

>I will do almost anything to make him not go lame so I can keep running him.

First, resolve to forget campaigning him until you get to the cause of the problems and get it/them fixed. And by fixed, I don't mean shooting him full of drugs and medications just so he can fulfill your needs, wishes and short term desires.

>Is there anything I can do?

See above.

If I sound a bit harsh, its because you have, aparently, not done your due dilligence and seem to be looking for a 'magic bullet' that will quickly resolve the problem and let you keep right on competing, regardless.

If by now, your horse has developed secondary issues such as pedal osteitis, butsitis, etc, the healing time will be much longer, often up to a year or more.

The procedures outlined by Dr. Myers are each/all designed to identify the problem(s), and to help form the basis for a treatment protocol.

All that said, until and unless the long toe-low heel syndrome is correctly addressed, all the diagnostics in the world will be of little to no value to you and especially, to your horse.

[RodeoQueen777]

[QUOTE=RodeoQueen777]
>I have a 7 year old Quarter Horse that has long toe-low heel, he has had it ever since I can remember.

During all this time, what has been done to attempt to remediate the problem?

>I bought him when he was 4 years old and I compete in barrel racing, pole bending and halter with him. He goes lame alot (he is lame as I speak :( ).

On going(chronic) lameness should have been a red flag a long time ago to get the problem(s) correctly diagnosed and remediation undertaken.


>I got a new farrier and he finds absesses almost everytime he shoes this horse.

The horse is talking, no one, including the farrier, is listening.

>The horse is worked 5 days a week or more.

Time to stop working him until and unless the problems are resolved.

> I took him to the vet and he said to put shoes on him (he is still going lame though) so it would not wear down the heel so much.

So all this time(up until now) you have been training and campaigning this horse barefoot? Even though you realized/recognized that there was/is a problem?

>Someone told me that I might need to sell him, :(

Who is this "someone"? What are their 'bona fides' when it comes to offering advise and opinion regarding your or anyone else's horse(s)?

>but I don't want to do that.

So, don't.

> It makes it really hard when I plan for a race for 2 month then the week before our run he goes lame.

You can plan two weeks out, two months out, or two years out. It will make not a bit of difference until and unless you identify the problems and get them resolved.

>I will do almost anything to make him not go lame so I can keep running him.

First, resolve to forget campaigning him until you get to the cause of the problems and get it/them fixed. And by fixed, I don't mean shooting him full of drugs and medications just so he can fulfill your needs, wishes and short term desires.

>Is there anything I can do?

See above.

If I sound a bit harsh, its because you have, aparently, not done your due dilligence and seem to be looking for a 'magic bullet' that will quickly resolve the problem and let you keep right on competing, regardless.

If by now, your horse has developed secondary issues such as pedal osteitis, butsitis, etc, the healing time will be much longer, often up to a year or more.

The procedures outlined by Dr. Myers are each/all designed to identify the problem(s), and to help form the basis for a treatment protocol.

All that said, until and unless the long toe-low heel syndrome is correctly addressed, all the diagnostics in the world will be of little to no value to you and especially, to your horse.

You don't understand I just relized my horse had it about a couple weeks ago, that was a misunderstanding when I said, "I have a 7 year old Quarter Horse that has long toe-low heel, he has had it ever since I can remember." I should have said, "His feet have looked like that ever since I remember, but I did not know what it was intill a few weeks ago. He goes for like 2 months without being lame then all the sudden he is lame for a week. So, if I would have known he had it 3 years ago it would have been taken care of along time ago, and I don't work him when he is lame, that would be cruel.

[Rick Burten]

In all this time, no one, not your vet, not your farrier, not your knowledgeable friends, no one has mentioned this condition to you? In all this time you have not once read, somewhere, about this quite common condition, and thought, gee, that sounds and looks like my horse's feet?

1. Fire your vet and your farrier. They have not truely been looking out for the welfare of your horse.

2. Find some new, knowledgeable friends and horsemen/women

3. Resolve to not ride this horse again until his problems have been completely remediated. While you are at it, ask his forgiveness for your inattentiveness and inaction.

4. Resolve to become much, much better informed and educated about horse management before you contribute any more to your horse's problems.

[Forgewizard]

RodeoQueen,
Yes, Please do post pix. Then we'd be able to offer our input on what has been successful for us when resolving this issue. You will most likely get several different ways of attacking this problem. That isn't to say any one way is better than another- just that what works for one horse may not work for the next. With more input you can make a more informed decision.


Pictures help best when they are fairly close up and definitely in focus. Side views, a front view, bottom views and a decent shot looking down the back of the heels as the leg is held up in the air.

We look forward to viewing them!

Kim

[RodeoQueen777]

In all this time, no one, not your vet, not your farrier, not your knowledgeable friends, no one has mentioned this condition to you? In all this time you have not once read, somewhere, about this quite common condition, and thought, gee, that sounds and looks like my horse's feet?

1. Fire your vet and your farrier. They have not truely been looking out for the welfare of your horse.

2. Find some new, knowledgeable friends and horsemen/women

3. Resolve to not ride this horse again until his problems have been completely remediated. While you are at it, ask his forgiveness for your inattentiveness and inaction.

4. Resolve to become much, much better informed and educated about horse management before you contribute any more to your horse's problems.

Nope no one said anything. The vet said we needed to build up his heel, but did not go into anything further. I read about it in the HI mag. a few weeks ago that is when I was like, "Wow, that sounds like what my horse has." No one actually came out and said, "Your horse has long toe-low heel."

I a questions... are you a vet or farrier?

[Rick Burten]

I a questions... are you a vet or farrier?

Though I don't play one on TV, I do, on occasion, admit to being a farrier.

[calshoer]

Nope no one said anything. The vet said we needed to build up his heel, but did not go into anything further. I read about it in the HI mag. a few weeks ago that is when I was like, "Wow, that sounds like what my horse has." No one actually came out and said, "Your horse has long toe-low heel."

I a questions... are you a vet or farrier?Rick is a very experienced and qualified farrier and even though a bit crass when his biorhythms are on the wrong swing, he has very good advice. :)

Without pictures I can't say what you farrier and vet have been attempting to do to correct this but here is general advice.
Building up heel is usually the wrong aproach. This is because most low heel feet already have too MUCH heel. By attempting to preserve the heels, the heel has been allowed to roll forward and UNDER the foot ,thereby causing internal bruising and hence, the absceses.
Attempting to leave more heel on the foot is the CAUSE of the rolled under crushed heels. As well the farrier will often pare as much sole as he can from under the toe every time he trims it in a misguidedatempt to shorten the toe. Doing so weakens and thins the sole and allows the toe to run forward even more, stretching the front half of the sole with it. .

SO..the solution is to leave ALL the sole in the toe, but remove ALL the run under parts of the heels and THEN do two things....
1) bring the breakover point of the shoe back to a place directly under the tip of the coffin bone (get Xrays as a blueprint if your farrier is not familiar with how to do this) and
2) raise and align the INTERNAL parts of the hoof by adding wedge WITH frog support. After he has trimmed the heels down and back where they belong the frog may hang past them, sometimes a half inch or more. That is FINE. it NEEDS toget pushed back up into the foot if it is prolapsing like that.
Never raise those heels without also supporting the frog.

Usually these type of feet have a lack of internal supportive cartilage inder the back of the coffin joint and that is why the went long and flat in the first place. Have the farrier hoof test over the center of the frog first and if it is sore, place the support only under the very back part of the frog. That part can take some load even when the center is sore. I use a Bar wedge type pad, which then sort of "slings" the frog up into the foot like a plastic hammock. He can fill just under the bar with Equipack or Silicone to keep rocks and grit out.
Run this by your farrier and see if he is willing to try it . He must be getting frustrated by this too, and this approach should help.Also note it is EXTREMELY important when placing the breakover back under the foot to avoid sole pressure. Do this by the SHOE design, and by leaving a tiny bit of extra hoofwall around the toe, not by paring sole! And never, ever "dub" the toe of the foot back to the shoe. Thagt will only collapse the foot more. Just roll the bottom edge and leave it hanging over.

Patty

[Forgewizard]

RodeoQueen,

Long Toed/low heeled hooves are unfortunately all too common. Enough in some areas of teh country that when a hoof is seen that has good heel depth, people think it is a club foot!

There are various ways to reestyablish heel depth. artificially is through the use of wedge pads and synthetics. Eventually these do help, but they will only help if the hoof they are applied against has been trimmed to a solid level.

When the heels become underrun they literally get crushed. Like Patty noted, usually a horse said to have "NO" heel - actually has quite a bit of heel - it just isn't supporting the limb. The heel walls have collapsed and are being pulled forward from toe growth and are getting crushed with every footfall.

When you look at hese heels from the solar side you can see how the horn tubules literally wrap under the hoof. Often there is a good sized crack in the heel wall behind the quarters.

This rolled under crushed heel neds to be trimmed back to allow it to be more supportive.

SOme farriers will take as much of this heel as they can on the first visit. Some opt for a little at a time. Either way will work. If there is a lot removed this will obviously drop the horse's heel even further, so it is best to apply an artificial heel in the form of a wedge pad.

But just a wedge pad by itself isn't much help because there is so much damage inside the heel strucutres that wedging the hoof UP only gives it that much more room to fall through the shoe. SO you HAVE to support the center of the hoof. Usually this is done with a frog pad of some sort.

Sole pours will work too for some horses.

The idea behind all this is to get the heels landing so they are more perpendicular to the ground. IF the heels land more "squarely" then they won't continue to get crushed under the hoof.

In order to help the hoof heal as fast as possible if the horse owner doesn't ask the horse to move fast, jump, or execute hard turns (all these things force the horse to utilize his heels heavily) then the hoof will quickly remodel itself. If teh horse is still expected to perform then the healing process will take longer.

When the heels roll uner they put pressure on the insides of the hoof where pressure is not designed to be for any length of time.

Your environment will dictate the best method for regrowing the heels.
Where I work pads often create more problems than they help. So I end up doing the slower method of heel building.

Remember I mentioned that the heels get pulled forward because of the toe growth? When your horse's hoof grows it not only grows downward, but it also grows forward. IF the toes get excessively long and the heels get crushed the whole hoofgets distorted to the front of the bony column. This puts tremendous strain on the supporting tissues.

While Patty said:
And never, ever "dub" the toe of the foot back to the shoe. Thagt will only collapse the foot more. Just roll the bottom edge and leave it hanging over.

It isn't true! Sure, you can leave the toe hanging over the leading edge of the shoe and just bevel upwards from the ground surface. But if the shoe is already set back and offering better breakover for the horse, and that excessively long toe is UNNECESSARY - it is OK to get rid of it!

Taking this unneeded toe will NOT increase the weakening factors of the hoof - the hoof is already weak in that area. Getting rid of the extra toe only eliminates the extra leverage encountered as the hoof turns over. With the shoe properly placed under the better breakover point - the leverage against the stretched toe area will be greatly reduced!

After a few shoeings as the heels build back up, you will find that less and less of the toe needs to be removed.

Taking away hoof that is stressed, damaged and weakened is what good farriery is all about. Adding support, protection and efficiency of movement is how to keep a horse sound.

Regards
Kim

[calshoer]

and that excessively long toe is UNNECESSARY - it is OK to get rid of it!
Boy Kim I liked your post right up to that point .
The lower band of hoof wall around the toe wall DOES serve some very important purposes.
It wraps around the coffin bone protecting the dorsal distal border.
It acts a band holding the capsule TOGETHER better.
It has live laminae down toeh leve lof the sensitive sole connection and that olaminae cant help hold the bone unless it also has the supportive wall that is supposed to go with it.
There is NO residual leverage after the moment of breakover (the initial heel lift off) from the overhanging toe once the heels begin to lift.
The tension in the flexor tendon drops to ZERO within a fraction of a second from when the heels *begin* to move.
It is moving the pivot point back that makes the difference, not whether there is still some rolled toe contacting the ground to complete the breakover .
It doesn't matter to breakover whether there is a dubbed chopped foot like you do, a slightly rolled toe with only 10 or 15 degrees roll, or a steep roll.
But it matters a whole lot to the interity of the FOOT.
All works the same for breakover except that when you chop the toe back vertically you have exposed the dorsal distal portion of p3 to potential trauma . Except of course in Florida SAND, where you live. Thats why you get away with it.
Besides it looks like amateur **** to chop them off.
Patty

[Rick Burten]

Rick is a very experienced and qualified farrier and even though a bit crass when his biorhythms are on the wrong swing, he has very good advice. :)
I think that is what my mother would call a "knock and a boost" :p

Its been quite a while since I've been called 'crass', but if the shoe fits, why go barefoot?

I'll have to add that back into the list of my more admirable attributes which now include, but are not limited to, arrogance, egotism, cynicsm, sarcasm, pithiness, bluntness,obstreperousness,(you may all feel free to contribute to this list, as I am trying to make it a complete one :o ).

[calshoer]

add "dedicated" and "sincere". :) Patty

[Ronald Aalders]

At least three questions popped up.

Eén: Is the horse lame on one foot when it is?

Twee: Are the abcesses on the low heeled foot or the high heeled foot?

Drie: When can you get X rays taken?


Ronald Aalders