Bars Breaking Out

[Ben-Sturman]

I have had a couple of situations where the bars have broken out of the foot when just cleaning with the hoof pick and a couple where they either broke out when I hooked an end with a knife or nippers. I'm not trying to pull them out or cut them off, they just seem to come loose and fall out breaking clear back to the seat of corn area and deep enough to be below live sole when the heels are trimmed. Or am I not trimming and reading the heels right? I'm pretty sure I am but no telling without someone to see for sure. The bars seem to grow back ok and after a couple of cycles they are strong and solid again. So, does anyone have an explanation of why they break out like this? How detrimental is this? It happens with new horses that I get and do for the first time and they have long heels for the most part. I just don't understand why they break so deep. If this is causing a huge support problem, what should be used to support the back of the foot until they grow back?

I put this here because I have been using the natural balance trim methods for a while since getting the videos and some help from a local guy who does some and I was just wondering about the invading live sole in the heels to get to the bars and the effect that would have. I have not done that yet and don't think I will. Thanks for any info.

Ben Sturman

[calshoer]

If the whole bar cracks out that easily, then it was ready to go anyway. Dont fret it. It could be your envorinment loosening them, (is it particularly wet when it happens? Or the bars are just overgrown and need trimming anyway.
The support will come from the dirt or sand that fills the foot when it loads into the ground. In general, any overgrown flopped over portion of the bars should be trimmed anyway. Dont worry too much about it. If you still have concerns send me some pictures. Ican run them by gene if he is in town (or the country..he is travelling a whole lot lately) You can send them directly to me at calshoer@msn.com.
Patty

[Phil Armitage]

I have had a couple of situations where the bars have broken out of the foot when just cleaning with the hoof pick and a couple where they either broke out when I hooked an end with a knife or nippers. I'm not trying to pull them out or cut them off, they just seem to come loose and fall out breaking clear back to the seat of corn area and deep enough to be below live sole when the heels are trimmed. Or am I not trimming and reading the heels right? I'm pretty sure I am but no telling without someone to see for sure. The bars seem to grow back ok and after a couple of cycles they are strong and solid again. So, does anyone have an explanation of why they break out like this? How detrimental is this? It happens with new horses that I get and do for the first time and they have long heels for the most part. I just don't understand why they break so deep. If this is causing a huge support problem, what should be used to support the back of the foot until they grow back?

I put this here because I have been using the natural balance trim methods for a while since getting the videos and some help from a local guy who does some and I was just wondering about the invading live sole in the heels to get to the bars and the effect that would have. I have not done that yet and don't think I will. Thanks for any info.

Ben Sturman

Ben I have had the same experience and concerns with new horses I get and the heels are too long. I also question if this is good or bad? Sometimes the horse owner and/or trainer are initially concerened with trimming the heels. Most of the time I receive positive feedback that the horses are moveing better and the feet look much healthier and better, so for now I use that as a reason that I am doing the right thing. I have been useing the trimming prinicples for four years now. I recall Gene mentioning "Disconnecting" was not sure what he meant back then and still not sure what he means. Maybe this is what he means and Patty can add to it.

It seems that if the horses were not trimmed in this manner by the previous farrier the heels and bar make big changes once NB principles are applied. I have also seen this in feet that were not trimmed on a regular basis.

I do not invade the live sole anywhere on the foot, heel, qaurters, center of foot or toe. I have learned from experience that horses feet can get sore if the live sole is invaded in the toe corners, this seems to be a significant weight bearing area.

In Maine the footing stays wet and muddy and very rocky. I have had success getting the breakover correct however sometimes the toe gets damaged by setting the shoes back when I need to increase breakover. I like the idea of leaveing some thickness to the dorsal wall and beveling the toe from the ground side so not to compromise the strength of the foot. I changed to rockering the toe on KH SX-8 and hotfitting or rolling the toe and set back to the whiteline. This has helped prevent gravel working up into the toe and damageing the horn. Especially on the horses that like to paw or dig. Getting that toe back is important half of the job in cunjunction to lowering the heels it all works together in eliminateing excessive mechanical stress and maintaining proper mechanics.

I talk to the owners, riders and trainers they see the horses on a daily basis and can feel everything the horse does. Great way to find out if what your doing is helping or hindering the performance of the horse.

Another delema I have come across is each individual foot will take on there natural angle and size. So sometimes feet will match and this seems to make people happy especially if this is what they understand as proper. Sometimes the feet end up not matching and this will sometimes cause concern especially if a Vet or another farrier throw in there opinion about how feet should match. I have discovered club feet, high low syndrome, mismatched feet and even though the horse is sound and in some cases moveing better people seem to be caught up on matching the feet at all cost. Not sure how to handle this sometimes, can get frustrateing. There are situations where the horse has issues in the body causeing compensation and excessive weight bearing on one limb or not enough weight bearing in another limb. Sometimes a proper trim will eliminate the reason for the horse being off in one limb and horses will cease to compensate and the feet change.

[Ben-Sturman]

Patty, It's either very wet during the monsoon season where we get after noon storms that can last for 15 to 30 minutes and produce up to an inch of rain. But even now while it is so dry I have had a couple of these situations happen on some long underun heels. That's why I asked. I will keep the camera in the truck and ready since I have a few new horses coming up this week and if it happens I will get some photos.

Phil, I know what you mean about the heel trimming and the owners/trainers about having a coronary. That is such a taboo. But once they see the results they usually decide it was ok. The bars do grow back and the feet get better so I also know this is working.

As far as club feet and different size feet, I have noticed that what I am doing is making them better also. The club feet look better and seem to make the horse feel and move better. Different size feet don't bother me, I see tons of horses this way all the time. I don't know if it's genetics or caused by other people doing a bad trim. I just know I see alot of two different sized front feet, and learning this way of trimming is helping to get them a little closer to the same.

I have also noticed that getting the ratio of the foot(more in back than in front of the widest part) and placing breakover correctly is making alot of horses more comfortable and move better. Here in AZ we have hard dry ground with lots of rocks or deep sand in the desert. So getting the breakover correct really helps in both situations, and maintaining breakover heel height, and proper support serves the horses best in both situations. Thanks for the replies.

Ben