Alternatives for abcess prone horse and opinions on farrier issues wanted!

[ThrghbrdJmpr]

Hello! I have a 5yr old 16.3h tb gelding that I use for light jumping work. He jumps 1x a week over small crossrails with a young beginner and once or twice a week with me over 2'6"-2'9" fences. Nothing terribly demanding. I have had him 2 months, when he came to be he had a nasty abcess with associated bruising in the left front which resolved after about 2 weeks of soaking etc. Yesterday morning he was literally on 3 legs. It was so bad we thought he'd killed his stifle, he kept popping his stifle and his leg giving out when he'd hit a certain weight on that leg. The vet pulled the shoe and **** and drainage came pouring out the nail holes. He has a bruise/abcess that covers about 1/2 of the actual sole area of his left hind. He's been shod a the end of september when I originally got him. It was the farriers opinion (and mine) at this point that his feet had been neglected for a bit and they had just tossed shoes on him to sale him. He was shod again 4 weeks later at the end of october. Well here we are 3 weeks in and the hind left is off because of the abcess. The farrier comes to the stable today and my trainer told him that Duncan abcessed. He knew immediately which foot it was and said he was surpised it took this long because he saw the huge bruise when he shod him. He then checked his feet and said he'd put the left hind on next Thursday with a pad to cover the large hole and that he'd need all 4 redone because all the nails are loose. One nail had to be removed about 2 days after he was shod as it had not been pounded in all the way and was sticking a good 1/3-3/4" out from the side of his hoof.
My questions are:
Is there a good alternative for a horse that needs shoes for his work load but is possibly prone to abcessing with nail holes?
Any thoughts ont he so-called "athletic" horse shoes?
I think the farrier should have mentioned the bruising when he was shod. He would not have been ridden or jumped had we known and it could have been cared for sooner, am I wrong in this?
Do you think he should really need his feet done all around again for "loose nails" 3 weeks after being shod?
I'm quite upset by this as yes his feet weren't in the best shape when he came in, but he's not throwing shoes, they're not dry or brittle or spongy. THere's no reason for the loose nails already. In 2 months we've put 3 sets of shoes on this horse. it seems to me that something is wrong with the farriery here. I really don't think I should have to pay for a new set all around after 3 weeks if they're falling off. Am I way off base here? Thanks!
Angela

[Forgewizard]

Sounds to me like you haven't given the horse enough time to heal from the abscess. 2 Months for an abscess suach as you described, is not a lot of time to open, drain and heal. Jumping this horse while he has an abscess is not recommended in my book no matter how small the jump.

At 5 years old he is in that age range when many geldings go through another growth spurt, so that could be contributing to the locking of his stifles. Is he post legged? Hill work, long tros and work in reverse will strengthen his stifles and back end. Stay away from circle work and deep footing.

But first get some xrays done so you can rule out any internal problems of the hoof and give hime time to heal! If the abscess has created a soft spot or was dug out from the solar surface - wait until that area has filled in with good hardened sole before riding him.

Nails raising after shoeing are common on horses with soggy feet, that then get dried out. Like if the horse came from a very wet environment, and now is kept high and dry. Dry is GOOD for the hooves. But when the hoof is saturated the wall tends to be a bit thicker. When it dries the wall shrinks around the nail shanks.

Another reason for nails sticking out is that the nails used were not the correct size for the shoe, now as the horse is walked say down a concrete barn aisle way, the nails literally get hammered deeper in to the wall with every step.

If those aren't the issues, then maybe your farrier forgot to finish his nails.

AS for thoughts on the "athletic shoes" if you are inquiring about the flexible urethane or synthetic shoes - there are many on the market and each one has benefits. I use several different types and like them. The drawback to them is that they aren't as easily shaped to your horses hoof as a metal shoe. By that I mean a metal shoe can be manipulated as the horse's hoof changes. Say if the shoe needs opening up after the first setting (this of course is if your shoes get reset). The synthetic shoes once shaped the first time, cannot be made wider or longer - only shorter and narrower.

But they are great at offering concussion absorbtion, traction and sole protection and will allow the hoof capsule to flex.

Nailing them on can be tricky but the right ingenuity or handiness with tools gets the job done.

There are many to choose from its just a matter of locating the ones that most closely follow your horse's hoof form and then fitting theshoe to the hoof.

[ThrghbrdJmpr]

"Sounds to me like you haven't given the horse enough time to heal from the abscess. 2 Months for an abscess suach as you described, is not a lot of time to open, drain and heal. Jumping this horse while he has an abscess is not recommended in my book no matter how small the jump."

I was certainly not implying that I expected him to be healed already or that I plan to ride him anytime soon. I am well aware that abcess take a long time to heal as this is not my first abcess prone horse. The abcess is open, has been pared out somewhat. The vet said it is too large to pare out completely. He will not return to jumping until he is totally sound.

"At 5 years old he is in that age range when many geldings go through another growth spurt, so that could be contributing to the locking of his stifles. Is he post legged? Hill work, long tros and work in reverse will strengthen his stifles and back end. Stay away from circle work and deep footing."

He's not locking his stifles. The vet said he's actually unlocking them purposefulyl when the pain gets to much from the weight bearing. That's what gave a sort of "muscle spasm" appearance to his issues. He is not post legged and has no soundnenss issues outside of the abcesses. He was previously pin-fired for God know what reason, but xrays clean, minus some minor changes and puffs, appropriate for his racing training and age.

He has had no significant change in environment. He came from a stable where he was turned out once every 2 days for limited time and straight stalled in a dry stall the rest of the time. He is now stabled at night with at least 8 hours of turnout in a fairly dry pasture all day. As for sogginess/hardness there has been no obvious change. His prior shoeing the nails and shoes stayed nice and tight. Honestly I think he was in a hurry and did a ****py job.

Do you think that the farrier should have told someone about the bruise?

I was thinking of the athletic shoes since we obviously will be going the padded route anyways. The shock absorbing properties are a definate bonus. Both abcesses he has experienced thus far have started with bruising, but also been centered around nail holes. My though was to try the pads or athletic shoes and then if he still has issues may have to look to glue ons or something. I have no experience with either though so wasn't sure if this was a good plan or not. Thanks!

[Forgewizard]

Oh my! Pinfired at less than 5 years old? Do they still do that? Pinfired ont ehforelegs? Or hinds? Or all?

He sounds like he may be a good candidate for the "Epona" shoe. They have varying densities of synthetic material on their shoes. The gel like center is especially nice for these soft soled horses. Also you can use an impression material (EDSS) between the shoe and hoof which furhter protects, cushions and supports the sole. EDSS comes in "firm" and "soft" densities. I'd try the "soft" first for your horse.

Windpuffs, while a common occurance on horses used at speed or distance or in high torque disciplines can be an indcation that there are imbalances in the limb & hoof.It is possible for them to go away once everything gets lined up and the work load becomes normal. SOme, though, just never go away. At 5 I'd guess you stand a good chance at eliminating them.

Pictures sure would be a great help. Otherwise we are just talking off the tops of our hats.

[Rick Burten]

[QUOTE=ThrghbrdJmpr]> I have had him 2 months, when he came to be he had a nasty abcess with associated bruising in the left front which resolved after about 2 weeks of soaking etc.

Was he lame at that time? Was he lame when you first looked at him? Was he shod when you first looked at him?

>Yesterday morning he was literally on 3 legs. It was so bad we thought he'd killed his stifle, he kept popping his stifle and his leg giving out when he'd hit a certain weight on that leg. The vet pulled the shoe and **** and drainage came pouring out the nail holes. He has a bruise/abcess that covers about 1/2 of the actual sole area of his left hind. He's been shod a the end of september when I originally got him.

> It was the farriers opinion (and mine) at this point that his feet had been neglected for a bit and they had just tossed shoes on him to sale him. He was shod again 4 weeks later at the end of october. Well here we are 3 weeks in and the hind left is off because of the abcess.

Your farrier shod him at this time, right?

> The farrier comes to the stable today and my trainer told him that Duncan abcessed. He knew immediately which foot it was and said he was surpised it took this long because he saw the huge bruise when he shod him.

Sounds like your guy is practicing some fancy footwork of his own right now.

>He then checked his feet and said he'd put the left hind on next Thursday with a pad to cover the large hole and that he'd need all 4 redone because all the nails are loose.

Placing a pad between the hoof and shoe when one is dealing with a problem such as this, is, IMNTBCHO, contra-indicated. Once that pad is in place you have no way to monitor the progress of healing, to medicate the wound, and you run the risk of environmental debris getting sucked under the pad and creating a whole new set of problems.

>One nail had to be removed about 2 days after he was shod as it had not been pounded in all the way and was sticking a good 1/3-3/4" out from the side of his hoof.

Do you mean that the clinch was either risen or never set in the first place, or that the nail had worked loose and was sticking out from the bottom of the shoe? If its the latter, which nail was it(ie: a toe nail, a middle nail or the last nail in the branch of the shoe)

>My questions are:
Is there a good alternative for a horse that needs shoes for his work load but is possibly prone to abcessing with nail holes?

Generally and mostly speaking, horses abscess out the nail hole(s) when the nail itself has been improperly driven and the horse has been either 'close nailed' or 'quicked'. Thin walled horses seem more susceptible because the margin for error in nailing is negligable. Also, bruises seem to be more prevalent in TBs because often, too much sole is pared away by someone either not paying attention, or just using a bad technique.

>Any thoughts ont he so-called "athletic" horse shoes?

As Kim first surmised, I am assuming you are referring to the plastic/urethane shoes. I too use a couple of different kinds(Currently I seem to favor the Equiflex/Polysteel ones), but I'm not a huge fan.

>I think the farrier should have mentioned the bruising when he was shod.

I think you are right. :)
>He would not have been ridden or jumped had we known and it could have been cared for sooner, am I wrong in this?

No, I don't think so. But how exactly would you have cared for this if the horse was not lame?

>Do you think he should really need his feet done all around again for "loose nails" 3 weeks after being shod?

A bit of a tough question to answer without seeing the horse and the shoeing. There are situations(and, again, Kim elaborated on some of them) where more frequent resets are necessary. That said, it does sound to me like your farrier is practicing the ancient art of CYOAF(Cover Your Own A$$ First) and is mixing in a bit of "If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with BS."

>I'm quite upset by this as yes his feet weren't in the best shape when he came in, but he's not throwing shoes, they're not dry or brittle or spongy. THere's no reason for the loose nails already. In 2 months we've put 3 sets of shoes on this horse. it seems to me that something is wrong with the farriery here.

Again, without seeing the horse and how its shod, its nigh on to impossible to say. However, since you are dissatisfied with the current level of care, it is perhaps time to look for a different farrier.

> I really don't think I should have to pay for a new set all around after 3 weeks if they're falling off. Am I way off base here?

If you feel it is a problem with this farrier, then you need a different farrier, and yes, you will have to pay for that work.

Have you discussed your questions and concerns with your current farrier? If not, perhaps you should. If you have, what was his response?

[ThrghbrdJmpr]

Hi Rick! Yes he was lame with the abcess that he had when I got him. He was shod, but it looked like they had just thrown shoes on him. The feet were all shewed above the shoes as if tehy weren't even trimmed when the shoes were applied. My farrier has now shod him 4 times, the 4th being today. As for the nail it looked like it had not even been driven in properly. Only about 1/4" of it was actually in the foot, the rest was simply bent over and sticking out to the side from onder his foot. I realize that there is no treatment for a bruise, however the jumping and heavy riding that we did would not have been done with him. We'd have stuck till light riding till the bruise resolved.

Update: He was reshod today. We went ahead and did pad the left hind as it has quit draining and has healed over and we want to protect it from further bruising. Unfortunately he today popped a new abcess in the right hind high in the heel. The opinion of the vet and the farrier at this point is to put him on antibiotics and that the cause of the abcesses is not necessarily the bruising, but more the fact that he was kept so poorly before I got him. They think that the lack of adequate nutrition and proper care where he came from has lowered his immune system to a level that he is picking up the infections very easily. What are your thoughts on this? He has put on considerable weight, but is still about 300lbs underweight. We have just started him on a nutritional supplement. I will get photos as soon as I can. My digital is broken at the moment, I'm getting a new one for xmas. I'll see if I can borrow one to get some pics though. Thank you for all your insights!