Laminitis/founder without dramatic symptoms

[Skinfaxi]

My horse foundered about a six months ago(due to engorging his damned belly) It was mild and and at the time it was noticed he still had some concavity. I've been working on him (barefoot) frequently since this occured and have made quite a bit of progress, restored some additional concavity and tightened the white line considerably. However, one thing concerns me. I have researched for hour and hours online and in the library about founder. Everything I have read when case studies of a horse were mentioned was that the horse was stone lame and stood on his heels. My horse never was/never has been. Sore? Yes, some days better than others. Hot footed? Yes, it comes and goes. I do not recall a day where he would not move forward. I do not recall a day where he would not trot or canter off at liberty. Is this strange? I thought maybe laminitis with out founder, but there IS a minor, but distinct change in the angle of the hoof wall. He has no other medical problems except being slightly overweight(6-7 bodyscore easy keeper 24/7 turnout, no suplements except alittle grain in winter.) Did I just get lucky? Could there be something I am missing as he still gets hot feet occasionally?

[Phil Armitage]

Your lucky, you caught it quickly. What happened is the lamina probably did get inflamed but it did not tear, the cause was known and stopped. When a horse is back on his heels and in the founder posistion it almost too late. Every horse has a different tolerance for pain, some look really bad with only mild laminitis and others walk off while the coffin bone is seperateing and rotateing.

[calshoer]

Horses can have low grade laminitis and not get that forward camped stance. This is Especially true in metabolically challenged horses (Equine metabolic syndrome and/or Cushings syndrome) a with laminitis.And sinkers, even severe ones wil usually stand with front feet flat under or even camped a little back under. I have seen a LOT of those kind misdiagnosed with "sore shoulders" or "possible navicular".

Sinkers can get so sore everywhere in the foot ,even the heels, that they plant themselves to the ground ,refusing to move at all but standing straight. not camped forward. It is a VERY bad sign when they do that. It often means you will not have any area of the foot that can tolerate any support. They get a lot more tricky .The ones that go forward out on their heels are a lot easier to deal with sometimes. At lease they are willing to use the back of their foot so it allows you a base of support to work with.
Patty

[Skinfaxi]

Thanks guys! I have reached a plateau in his recovery and it is stumping the hell out of me. A little info, he is a 15 hh, quarter horse, age 8-9, with really great hoof walls. He has surprisingly good sized feet for the breed, or at least they are not small feet. He is pretty well put together too(I'm not bragging.) Only complaints I have with him, shy of perfection :D , is his "just a hair too long" back, slightly* cow hocked, and the typical way too short and upright pasterns.
So I keep the toe back to prevent pulling flares and keep his angle right with plenty of frog support and he has concavity. Since I have not had radiographs :( I just don't know why he is still so hot footed and "off"
Then what you posted made me think navicular(damn the pasterns)since he camps under if made to stand in one place for a while. If not allowed to move, and that only happens when I am trimming, after a while (10-15 min)he will lean back and nearly fall!(he stands square at liberty and undersaddle).
Now, if you look at his foot from the side there is a flat(unringed)angled drop from the coronary band(now about an inch or so long at the new angle) and then smooth flat and unattatched? otherwise healthy looking hoofwall to the ground. Anyway, any ideas on proceding in a way that will reduce his hot footedness? Or maybe it is some other ailment? Any ideas at all. I know that this is probably textbook, but please forgive the newbie...I am trying to educate myself on horses that only I can get mad about.


Thanks,
Sarah
P.S. The signature is for you Ron :)

[calshoer]

I would recommend some Xrays and blood work to see what may still be up. He could have sunk more than you think and need more than just trimming., possibly shoes and frog support pads for more protection and stability of the bone. Or he could have some internal hoof imbalances, or navicular or something like that needs a little different apropach. Is he landing heel first?or toe first? If heel first thats a good sign, if toe first he has pain somewhere in the rear of the foot. Do you have pictures of the feet? Close up pics along with the Xrays taken the the same time helps in determing the trim or need for shoeing.
Patty

[SpiritHorse]

Skin, I don't know if it okay for me to answer here or not since I am not a farrier but, our horses did not do the stance, only acted like they stepped on one heck of a rock.
They would heat up one minute, but the next check they would be fine.
They never avoided going, they were just slow because of it.
Also, when they turned you could tell though, they had a rough go of it.
Mine are recovering nicely and seem to be returning to normal gait except my youngest who will take a bit longer to get right.
They have to grow out those shorter than they should ever have been trims.

Catching it early is a key factor and I can count my blessing I know when they aren't right.
The filly fooled me though, after she came out of the bad trim the first time she didn't have another episode until he did it to her again and that is when we found out she had rotated from the first bad trim, so she threw me off on that one.

I would get Xrays to make sure this isn't a case with your horse, you would not believe how much a horse can handle before they show signs.
I am glad we had the Xrays done, and now will have the 3rd set on the filly done in late Nov or early Dec to see her progress from the 3* rotation it was 4-5*




My horse foundered about a six months ago(due to engorging his damned belly) It was mild and and at the time it was noticed he still had some concavity. I've been working on him (barefoot) frequently since this occured and have made quite a bit of progress, restored some additional concavity and tightened the white line considerably. However, one thing concerns me. I have researched for hour and hours online and in the library about founder. Everything I have read when case studies of a horse were mentioned was that the horse was stone lame and stood on his heels. My horse never was/never has been. Sore? Yes, some days better than others. Hot footed? Yes, it comes and goes. I do not recall a day where he would not move forward. I do not recall a day where he would not trot or canter off at liberty. Is this strange? I thought maybe laminitis with out founder, but there IS a minor, but distinct change in the angle of the hoof wall. He has no other medical problems except being slightly overweight(6-7 bodyscore easy keeper 24/7 turnout, no suplements except alittle grain in winter.) Did I just get lucky? Could there be something I am missing as he still gets hot feet occasionally?

[Forgewizard]

Skinfaxi,
Your horse is still going through some sort of systemic insult if his hooves are getting hot then cold. Until you get the temperature fluctuations stopped you will continue to see problems in his hooves and stance.

Have you been soaking his hooves in ice water? Horses can tolerate long term (hours on end) soaks of their lower legs in ice slurries with NO ill effects!

WHile the ice bathe may cool his hooves temporarily - until his system straghtens out you won't be able to make progress.