Heel Exstension?

[HorseCrazy]

Hello All

my horse has shoes on. and i asked my farrier..why he didn;t extend the shoe as far back as my other farrier did....and he said : cause horses don;t really need that exstension in the back.... is this true? I always thought that adding heel exstension gave more support in the rear of the foot? and that the more underrun the heels the more extension that is needed?

The shoes cover the buttress of the heel...but that is all it basically stops right when the heels stops and DOESN'T extend behind the heels AT ALL ( but there is heel EXSPANSION on the sides of the shoe but none behind). it basically is fit VERY tight around the heel ....but my farrier said that it doesn;t matter :confused: The Vet said that my horses feet were Very Good Shape.. he has a short toe and short heels and has NO underrun heels or contraction as of YET! ( if he keeps not supporting his heels they will probably run under :( ).he lands flat at the walk ...and doesn't appear to be uncomfortable.

shouldn't they At LEAST have a little heel exstension? what kind of problems could this cause ? can one shoeing cycle cause any major hoof , tendon and ligament problems ? should i get another farrier? will he be ok like this for another 6 weeks or should i pull the shoes.right away?. :confused: ..

it just doesn;t sound right to me ..that the heel extensions don't do anything...the support they give makes sense to me :confused:

sorry for all the questions

thanks all !

[SlowShoe]

Well I use hair extensions.. umm wait.. Oh HEEL extenstions...

I just call it support. =] If your horse is forging, or has the tendancy to pull shoes, or any kind of interfeirance issues, a tight fit is ok. Now when they are fit so tight and the feet are healthy you MUST maintain a close shoeing cycle and get them done ON time every time. If not the heel can quickly grow over the back of the shoe and couse some issues... Sometimes its no big deal and is just trimmed off with the excess, sometimes the shoe can lose contact with stable area of the bottom side of the hoof and sink into the heels causing bruising or other problems. You shouldnt have to worry about this if your schedualed correctly.

Its good to give support by putting the correct size shoe on. It should be noted that the support required depends on how the hoof is growing. Heels more forward or under-run require more support than ones growing more directly down and supporting the bone column propperly. Some guys dont want to risk getting a shoe pulled and haveing to drive all the way out again. So they fit tight for only that reason.. some horses just need it to be tighter than others in general. Ussually there should be some space back there to allow for support, growth, and propper expansion.

Whats your shoeing schedual like? Also pictures would be nice. I dont like to speek bad of any farriers or judge them from a single shoeing job.So pictures should be in order =]

Am I in the right here guys 'n gals?

-Josh

[Phil Armitage]

My personal opinion, I like to fit the shoes as you said, if the heels are underun more extension. I find that if I do not add protection and support to the heel bulbs riders complain more about subtle movement problems. If I use a larger shoe and fit the heels a little past the buttress of the heels I get less complaints and I also see improvement. On hinds with low/underrun heels I will add more support. I am not talking about an exagerated amount of heel support maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch in some cases, I have added more. Seems to work for me and it does look better, but we all know looks are not everything. I am one of those farriers that is not totaly convinced that trimming the heels as low as you can and fitting the shoes just to the end of the buttress is the right thing to do, maybe it is maybe it isnt. Every foot is different, depends on conformation, condition of frog and sole, angles etc.. It is a hard one to judge without seeing the horse for myself. I would let your farrier know if you feel a difference in your horse, good or bad.

[Jim Sweeney]

I share horses with other farriers when they are in Fl for the winter and some of them I think are shod super tight to the heels. This is not my style as long as a horse does not swipe the shoe off I give as much rearward support as I can. The horse has to be happy either way, as Phil said I have gotten comments from riders saying their horses stride was better and they seemed more confident at the bottom of a big fence. The goal should be that your horse is shod as well on week 4, 5, or 6 as he was on day 1 check carefully that their is no unsupported heel a few weeks into the job. I am surprised to find shoes that I left hanging in the breeze 5 weeks ago are now fitting the heels more tightly, makes me wonder where they would be if I started tight. Bottom line, is the horse happy? Is the rider happy?

[HorseCrazy]

Thank You all for your reply's

My horses feet are healthy : no forging, or stumbling..and he doesn't pull shoes very often if ever...

the last time we had him reset my farrier said lets try 8 weeks :eek: i was a little hesitant about that! 8 weeks seems like a long time for my horse , so i don;t know how that is going to go....i will call him if i think he needs them trimmed sooner.

it just looks like he needs a little heel extension ...maybe it would just make me feel more ***fortable knowing has good support .

he moves good now and isn't short striding or anything ...but it seems a little diffrent now that there is no expansion....or maybe it is just me worrying about it :confused:

he doesn;t have underrun heels...but my horses heels grow very fast...so that is why i would like more exstension...

sadly i have no pictures of his feet :(

i will definitly let my farrier know if i have any problems

the horse seems happy....but the rider is worried lol

My Horse Should be ok right? until the next shoeing if the heels don't grow over the shoe? it shouldn't cause any major or permanent problems if i leave leave the shoes on and ride him until the next appointment? :confused: right?

if that is the case it makes me feel a little better...and next time he gets reset..i'll ask him to put a little more heel support for my sanity lol

THANK YOU!

[HorseCrazy]

anyone gonna answer? :(

[calshoer]

Your horse should be fine. If the heels are not underrun, and the horse is sound ,there is no need to extend the heels of the shoe behind the foot. In fact with underrun heels it is not appropriate to extend the shoe unless the heels themselves get trimmed down first down to get rid of the underrun portion. Trimming them extends the ends of the *foot * further back. .It really takes very little shoe beyond the ends of the heels to be enough support. Don't worry about it.
Patty

[Forgewizard]

8 WEEKS for a shod hoof?! NO way! Not in my book! Please talk him in to at least getting there in 6 weeks! $ weeks would be better if he is shoeing as tight *** you described! SHoeing the orse short (or tight) in the heels this way WILL aggravate your horse!

As your horse's hoof grows it not only grows down, but it also grows forward. this forward growth will allow the new growth at the heels to become unsupported. In an 8 week interval on a normally growing hoof there will be about 3/8 of an inch per month growth - this is just shy of an inch of growth inthose 8 weeks! Beleive me, you do NOT want those heels to become unsupported during that growth!

At the very least he will become heel sore. Corns can develop, which can result in dep heel abscesses.

Allowing extra length at the heels does NOT contribute to underrun or crushed heels IF the farrier has addressed the heel trim correctly! The heels DO need to be trimmed to a stronger more perpendicular state, but not necessarily so they are low or have no depth. Placing extended heeled shoes on crushed heels without addressing the heel trim will keep crushing the heels- just as allowing the bare hoof with crushed heels to contact the ground will keep the heels crushed.

Think about it for a bit; If your horse was fine and has developed "good" hooves with the previous shoeing method, then why change what was working? Yes, you hired a new farrier, but if your horse does in fact have good hooves, then changing his shoeing will result in a change in his hooves.

Remember when you shoe a horse you have literally permanently(well, relatively permanently) attached the ground to his hooves. So make sure that the information his hooves receive from "the ground" is correctly telling his hooves how to grow!

I see WAY more problems in horses wbeing short shod than I do in horses that have what looks like a shelf behind their heels! As long as the breakover is correct and your tack fits, the horse can move his limbs corectly and pulled off shoes will only be a problem if he climbs fences!

[HorseCrazy]

yes when i first heard him say 8 weeks i knew that was way too long..so yes we are going to make the next appointment sooner....


THANK YOU ALL! :D

[calshoer]

Depending on the shoeing style ,(the way the foot is trimmed and the type of shoes and how they are fit) , and of course the rate of hoof growth ,any one horse in ,my practice may go from five up to ten or eleven weeks in one set of shoes.
It is totally individual.The way I shoe them, most go eight to nine with no problems. No change in hoof angle and without the breakover point moving forward. The toe of the shoe wears back as the foto grows forward, maintaining the breakover point's relationship with the end of the bone as the foot grows forward.This is especially truealuminum shoes.(I do not use aluminim that has a wear plate) of course, Now this is dry hard Colorado where the shoes CAN actually wear in the toe. Not Florida where it is all softer. But in my experience there is nothing wrong with eight weeks in most areas. If the horse is overgrowing the heels shoes in that time, he is shod wrong.
Patty

[HorseCrazy]

well i heard that NB shoes usually can go a long time without be reset. like you said.

but my horses heels were really VERY tightly fit..i mean NOTHING Extending... and my horses heels grow really fast .also.he didn't trim the heels back to the widest point of the frog. he did take the breakover point back...and my horse IS landing heel first, and everything looks fine...except i would have liked it if there was more heel extending.and the heels taken down more if the heels were trimmed lower and he put a little shoe extending then i wouldn't have to worry about support or the heels growing over

shod wrong...what do you mean ....i mean : what would the Your Definition of a shod wrong hoof look like? just so i know what to look for

it wouldn't hurt to tell him to extend the heel back a little right?

[Phil Armitage]

The fact that the toe wears in the aluminum NB shoes and help to maintain good breakover for 8 or more weeks makes sense. What does not make sense to me is allowing the heels to get long. I agree with Kim on the problems caused by long heels. I also think the problems could be amplified in softer footing, not only does the foot grow forward and the heels get longer but this same foot sinks into the softer footing. This is why I preffer to keep a horse on a 4 to 6 week schedule and provide more heel support. Softer footing is different than the hard ground in Colorado.

I really cannot see any good reason for allowing a horse to go beyond 8 weeks no matter what type of shoes they have on. Aluminum or steel. The heels also grow and lets face it, the back half of the foot is what we all seem to make the most fuss about, not letting the heels get long and frog support.